E-Fingerprints

KnotRight

KnotRight

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How much are you paying to get E-fingerprints for E-filings?

Trying to find a place around Savannah?
 
AR10ShooterinNC said:
If you have used Silencer Shop in the past, call them they will send you a set for like $15 shipped.
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@AR10ShooterinNC I do not think that they are in the correct format to use with E-Forms. I know that the shop here in Savannah has one of their kiosk and they said they do not scan for E-Forms.
 
AR10ShooterinNC said:
When you file using eforms, you still need to send the ATF hard copies of your prints.
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KnotRight said:
No, if you have your fingerprints in the correct format, you can upload them in E-Forms like you do your picture, trust and RPQ.
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AR10ShooterinNC said:
Didn't know that...
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To get everybody on the same page…

Only a dealer filing an F4 in EForms can upload prints (or they can mail hard copies). If somebody wants to file an F1 in EForms, they still have to send in hard copies. And a non-FFL doesn’t even have option to file an electronic Form 4 at this time.
 
I got eft files at the UPS store in north Durham.

Be aware that not all ups stores have fingerprint services, so check before you go.

It was around $60 if I recall correctly.


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I actually did this today… here’s how it went down for me:

1. Made an appointment yesterday through PrintScan & paid $45 - when making appointment, selected fingerprint appointment type was “ATF”

2. Showed up at appointment - was a UPS Store on New Bern in Raleigh

3. Provided 2 forms of ID to UPS lady

4. Scan prints - in & out in less than 10 min

5. Received an email within an hour with instructions for downloading my .eft file

6. Optional - follow these instruction (REDDIT LINK) to save a copy of your .eft file in a different format
 
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For those of you that went and got an eft file from a 3rd party source…lemme know whenever you get an approval.

I ask because there’s not just one option for an eft file. That was the reason that THSF didn’t send electronic prints for the first five days, because the ATF wouldn’t tell anybody exactly what type of eft they wanted. For example, it could include prints, as well as a signature and a photo, all in one file.
 
BigWaylon said:
what type of eft they wanted
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Note: The uploaded EFT file must meet to the FBI Specification 8.1.0. Type of Transaction (TOT) must be 'FAUF'. The File extension must be 'EFT only.

FWIW, this is from the F4 eForm I’m working on. A digital signature was required along with the fingerprints at their kiosk. Fingerprints captured include the 4 together from each hand and rolls from each finger.

Not claiming to know what I’m doing (because I definitely do not) but I saw a Reddit post where someone did exactly what I’m doing and they claim their F4 was approved.
 
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UPDATE
Just got my. EFT fingerprints done. (Print Scan 631-782-1700)
Here is what I had to do:
1. Go to PrintScan.com
2. Pick Get Fingerprints done
3 Pick ATF Icon
4. Next
5. Enter your Zip code
6. They sent me a QRC code to take to the store with TWO picture IDs needed.

I made an appointment for Barbara and myself to have them done today. Nearest place was Hinesville, GA at the UPS store (not all UPS stores can do it). Got to the store and the Cleark wanted to see out IDs and then started a short video on how to use the machine and walked away. Barbara had problems at the sheriff's office doing fingerprinting and it was the same there. Got her's finished and then mine.
By the time we were 15 minutes away from the store we got e-mails stating that our prints were ready to be downloaded. When we got home, I downloaded the files to my hard drive then uploaded them to the SkyDrive and sent them to our e-mails.

You cannot open the files. The cost was $45 per person.
 
Has there been any updates on if the ATF will accept the e fingerprint files for e file form 1s?
 
So electronic fingerprints are acceptable for Form 4's, but form 1's still require manual fingerprint cards?
 
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Scsmith42 said:
So electronic fingerprints are acceptable for Form 4's, but form 1's still require manual fingerprint cards?
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And you also can’t use eForms to file a Form 4 between non-FFLs, so no electronic prints available in that scenario either.
 
There's no technological reason why something akin to TSA PRE can't be done by the ATF for frequent fliers (example: @BigWaylon) using RFID-confirmable devices in combination with a code the frequent flier sets (and only s/he knows). Thus, there's merely a will NOT to do it.

Put another way, it's clear the government WANTS this process to be paper-based, painful, and slow.
 
surrealone said:
There's no technological reason why something akin to TSA PRE can't be done by the ATF for frequent fliers (example: @BigWaylon) using RFID-confirmable devices in combination with a code the frequent flier sets (and only s/he knows). Thus, there's merely a will NOT to do it.

Put another way, it's clear the government WANTS this process to be paper-based, painful, and slow.
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The IRS has a ID system that helps secure your online account. There are lots of improvements that could be made but there is no incentive to the ATF to improve and make things better for us. Most of the stuff ATF does makes things harder for us law abiding citizens. Every step of the way, the Gov't is trying to discourage anything that has to do with firearm ownership or usage.
 
Me. said:
Why is paper-based such a bad thing? It’s free and takes 10-15 minutes of your time to print yourself.

Well…. Not completely free, you need to buy ink pads. Why add 25% to the cost of a tax stamp by doing eprints?
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Why is paper a bad thing? Paper is slow, time-consuming (think approval wait times), and it entails human toil (i.e., someone processing it) in addition to its storage/archival cost. Since felons are identified in databases that can be electronically checked in real-time ... and since felons are fingerprinted when booked and their prints are electronically stored (and thus also searchable in real-time) , there's no reason in hell the ATF needs to collect my prints (and those of the trust's responsible persons) for EVERY purchase. Instead, they need only have those prints on file (updated periodically, of course, but not every purchase) and, at each purchase, run the prints on file against the database of felons' prints. Thus, paper's use is a purely bureaucratic hurdle intentionally emplaced to slow the process down.

Technology, today, allows my prints and photo to be kept on file and matched against (at purchase time) in real-time. When you combine this capability with a multi-factor authentication approach (currently not implemented, but fairly readily implemented -- with cost passed on to the end-user/customer making the NFA purchase) that absolutely validates that it's me making the purchase (because it relies on something I have ... and something only I know ... atop matching my prints and photo in real-time) ... all this paper shuffling, mailing/uploading, and waiting is just pure, intentional waste.

For some serious security, profiles containing NFA frequent flier information can be secured using mechanisms that are ONLY unlocked by way of the multi-factor authentication I just mentioned -- such that it's completely inaccessible information (once entered) EXCEPT for the (mere seconds during lookup/comparison/auth) when purchases are being made (i.e. when the multi-factor auth is provided) -- thereby protecting the confidentiality and integrity of the buyers' personal information in a way it's simply not protected when being transported by snailmail (because anyone along the snailmail path can simply upon the mail) ... and not protected when it's sitting on or being shuffled among desks at the ATF.

TSA-PRE costs $85 for 5 years of hassle-free acceleration when getting through TSA at airports. The money one pays covers the cost of profile set-up/maintenance, operation, and the appropriate face-to-face check of identity & identity documentation. One goes through that process (and pays) every 5 years. Thus, for a mere $85 dollars one 'buys' the convenience of skipping long waits at TSA ... by keeping something on file ... for 5 years. I don't know how you value your time, but that's money well spent in not waiting in line.

I'm merely suggesting a secure mechanism that allows the same near-instantaneous, hassle-free approach for NFA buyers who pay up front for the convenience of speed during their frequent NFA flying. Just Imagine: instantaneous approval to buy a NFA item ... with no NFA jail-time -- translating to weeks/months of waiting eliminated as well as less human toil at the ATF AND elimination of mail costs and paper storage costs (since cost is passed on to the frequent fliers) -- with increased security of one's personal information. It'd probably cost $200-$400 per responsible person (per interval -- say 5 years like TSA-PRE), but again, money well-spent if you fly frequently in the NFA world ... assuming you value the elimination of NFA jail time.

I don't know about you, but I value my time... and time spent without what I paid for (i.e., unable to use it while in ATF jail) ... is quantifiable and racks up a lot of monetary value when multiplied against, say, minimum wage.
9 months of ATF jail time times 30 days per month times 24 hours per day times $7.25 minimum wage is .... (wait for it): $46,980. Sure, I didn't work those hours, but I did go without being able to use/possess property I technically own (but can't possess!) for that ... and there's value lost in that period of disuse, since I only have so much time on this earth. Even at $1 per hour, that's $6,264 dollars in lost opportunity to use what I paid for. I think you get the idea -- time is money ... and the government is wasting our most precious resource (time) by using paper.
 
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BigWaylon said:
And you also can’t use eForms to file a Form 4 between non-FFLs, so no electronic prints available in that scenario either.
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Does anybody know if Form 1's still require manual fingerprint cards, or are electronic submittals of fingerprints now accepted? According to the PrintScan.com website, they offer ATF Compliant EFT files for Form 1 and Form 4's for ATF's e-file portal.
 
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Scsmith42 said:
Does anybody know if Form 1's still require manual fingerprint cards, or are electronic submittals of fingerprints now accepted? According to the PrintScan.com website, they offer ATF Compliant EFT files for Form 1 and Form 4's for ATF's e-file portal.
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When I did a “free” SBR and a paid SBR at the same time last year I used EFT without any trouble. I did not send in paper fingerprints at all.

Both approved within 30-ish days.
 
Tim said:
When I did a “free” SBR and a paid SBR at the same time last year I used EFT without any trouble. I did not send in paper fingerprints at all.

Both approved within 30-ish days.
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Correct. When you upload the EFT file to the site, it should check to make sure that it's in the correct format and accept it. After you submit the eForms Form 1, you'll still get a copy of the form with the fingerprint cover letter attached, but as long as it shows REC'D to the right of your name, you don't have to send in a hard copy of the forms.

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