Wuhan, nCV, germs....

Ok well this crap might be worse than I expected. This is my best friend talking about his first Corona patient he had today.

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I’m old enough to remember when buying anything made by communists was bad business.
Money changes everything. IF there's anything that supersedes politics in China, it's money. It's always the money. Or should I say, greed?
 
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The CEO of Vidant hospitals wanted Cooper to shutter NC earlier today. Cooper told him no and issued the amended orders. Well tonight the CEO went to the Pitt Co commissioners meeting and got them to shutter Pitt co (aka Greenville, NC) beginning 5pm Wed for 2 weeks other than essential travel. I'd expect him to come to other nearby counties. He said his hospitals don't have the beds.
 
The CEO of Vidant hospitals wanted Cooper to shutter NC earlier today. Cooper told him no and issued the amended orders. Well tonight the CEO went to the Pitt Co commissioners meeting and got them to shutter Pitt co (aka Greenville, NC) beginning 5pm Wed for 2 weeks other than essential travel. I'd expect him to come to other nearby counties. He said his hospitals don't have the beds.

He's not wrong. They are expecting the numbers to surge and do not have the beds and equipment to handle it if the numbers spike.
 
He's not wrong. They are expecting the numbers to surge and do not have the beds and equipment to handle it if the numbers spike.

Yea I don't disagree. You can catch this new bug or one of the many others running around that dirty, dirty hospital. Dang near killed my mom. It's been 2 yrs and still not straight after going there and getting the bacterial infection. I have medical friends that won't go there.
 
The CEO of Vidant hospitals wanted Cooper to shutter NC earlier today. Cooper told him no and issued the amended orders. Well tonight the CEO went to the Pitt Co commissioners meeting and got them to shutter Pitt co (aka Greenville, NC) beginning 5pm Wed for 2 weeks other than essential travel. I'd expect him to come to other nearby counties. He said his hospitals don't have the beds.


Pardon me for not caring too much what the CEO of a hospital system says. He has one responsibility - to keep his hospital system profitable. His system being overloaded beyond a certain point is a liability to his company and his job. Of course he wants to control that. He is going to be drawing his paycheck even if 90% of Pitt County or the state of NC is unemployed.

One of the reasons that we don't have more hospitals is that guys like him have spent years and tons of money lobbying the state for limits on how many hospitals we have and where they can be built and by whom. They have used the force of government to protect themselves from competition.

He might be the greatest guy on earth, but I'd have to have that proven to me before I gave his opinion much weight.
 
Pardon me for not caring too much what the CEO of a hospital system says. He has one responsibility - to keep his hospital system profitable. His system being overloaded beyond a certain point is a liability to his company and his job. Of course he wants to control that. He is going to be drawing his paycheck even if 90% of Pitt County or the state of NC is unemployed.

One of the reasons that we don't have more hospitals is that guys like him have spent years and tons of money lobbying the state for limits on how many hospitals we have and where they can be built and by whom. They have used the force of government to protect themselves from competition.
I think we are going to push and likely break the limits of the insurance driven for profit medical racketeering system. It was built around the idea of massive profitability for a few using minimal resources. Bloggers warning of what is coming have shown the math showing that it simply doesn’t have the resources and can’t get them fast enough. That is why it is so important to try to contain the spread of this virus to give it time. Unfortunately being a bit over a week into things shutting down to do this the PTBs (monied elite) are whining about needing to get everyone back in the office, school, or factory. It’s not a good omen.
 
What kind of field is your friend in?

ARDS can present somewhat quickly in my experience (couple hours), but things like flash pulmonary edema can present similarly and look similar on a chest xray, and I've seen it happen much faster. At that age, his heart's probably not in great shape either, which would contribute, especially when he comes in the hospital sick and is immediately fluid resuscitated.

Hospitals are definitely going to have to learn to stop fluid overloading patients- it's a common problem without a potentially deadly virus. I've seen so many patient's being fluid overloaded, diursesed, and then filled back up again.
He is a nurse at the Third largest hospital in WV.he has 15 years in nursing and was the first to volunteer to treat patients with covid. He is actually moving into case management once all this stuff dies down. He is a smart usually calm individual, but that one case caught him off guard.
 
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He is a nurse at the Third largest hospital in WV.he has 15 years in nursing and was the first to volunteer to treat patients with covid. He is actually moving into case management once all this stuff dies down. He is a smart usually calm individual, but that one case caught him off guard.

Interesting how they didn't have any cases--they were among the last state to test--now they are popping up everywhere. My wife's BF works at the hospital at WVU, and by the symptoms some of her coworkers have had, my money is on coronavirus. But they never got tested.
 
Pardon me for not caring too much what the CEO of a hospital system says. He has one responsibility - to keep his hospital system profitable. His system being overloaded beyond a certain point is a liability to his company and his job. Of course he wants to control that. He is going to be drawing his paycheck even if 90% of Pitt County or the state of NC is unemployed.

One of the reasons that we don't have more hospitals is that guys like him have spent years and tons of money lobbying the state for limits on how many hospitals we have and where they can be built and by whom. They have used the force of government to protect themselves from competition.

He might be the greatest guy on earth, but I'd have to have that proven to me before I gave his opinion much weight.

But that is counterintuitive. If he wanted profits > anything, he would be pushing for open borders, open stores, open everything...anything to maximize filling the hospital. I do not know him from Adam, but pushing policies that keep people out of the hospital is a lousy business model.
 
But that is counterintuitive. If he wanted profits > anything, he would be pushing for open borders, open stores, open everything...anything to maximize filling the hospital. I do not know him from Adam, but pushing policies that keep people out of the hospital is a lousy business model.


Not so. An overcrowded hospital is much less profitable than a managed crowd within their business model. Especially when you factor in the much greater potential for malpractice lawsuits and uninsured, non-paying patients.
 
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Interesting how they didn't have any cases--they were among the last state to test--now they are popping up everywhere. My wife's BF works at the hospital at WVU, and by the symptoms some of her coworkers have had, my money is on coronavirus. But they never got tested.
He works at the other hospital. WVU is Ruby hospital which is the best in the state. I've been to Ruby multiple times over the years and it is a very nice hospital.
 
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Not so. An overcrowded hospital is much less profitable than a managed crowd within their business model. Especially when you factor in the much greater potential for malpractice lawsuits.

Yes, it is so in cases of COVID admits/ICU days, ventilator days. Those are 100% reimbursable, ESPECIALLY now.

Again, I don't know the guy, and from a clinical perspective I fully understand why they are asking for full shelter-in-place. From a private citizen perspective, I can make my own decisions.
 
My little Facebook rant:

What I noticed about people in the pandemic:
You are smart if you stocked up on items or happen to find the last one on the shelf- if someone else did it, they are hoarders..

If you get a tip about a stock and buy low/ sell high, you are a smart trader- if someone else does it, it's insider trading.

Most politicians have the same agenda- to make themselves look good/ gain more power and to push pet projects that they are paid to push by their party or special interest.

Neither side cares about the people of America
 
I question some patients I've seen who've come in with symptoms and came back negative on standard microbiology panel but were never tested for Covid19. I think it's probably already spread a lot farther than anyone wants to admit and our lack of testing is us putting our head in the sand.


Not if they're a readmit. Medicare/Medicaid will just give you the finger. And rest assured, some of the people who will end up on vents are the ones you see every month with chronic issues who don't take care of themselves.

And I don't see how an overcrowded hospital is profitable. Especially if the people who owe you money don't have insurance and die.
What's more, there's more staff on board constantly doing screenings at the door. These people are already RN's, etc. and are getting overtime pay (which is hefty btw). Your staff will all end up getting that pay if things get bad. You have to order more supplies. Your resources are stretched thin- laundry, cafeteria, chaplain and social services, your lab testing. No more skeleton crews at night. And ICU beds are expensive. The drugs, the care required, the equipment required, the monitors. These things will have to be purchased, because most local hospitals that aren't Forsyth or Baptist don't have gigantic ICU's.

So far there have not been any re-admits of COVID patients. But those reimbursement rules are suspended for this population anyway.

I understand how medical centers/hospitals work, especially during things like this. It's kinda my job.

Sorry if that sounded salty; I have been working on COVID-19 and our med center's response, PPE, testing, treatment algorithms, etc., etc., etc. 70-80 hours a week for 2 weeks, so I am tired. I do not mean to come across salty.
 
I question some patients I've seen who've come in with symptoms and came back negative on standard microbiology panel but were never tested for Covid19. I think it's probably already spread a lot farther than anyone wants to admit and our lack of testing is us putting our head in the sand.


Not if they're a readmit. Medicare/Medicaid will just give you the finger. And rest assured, some of the people who will end up on vents are the ones you see every month with chronic issues who don't take care of themselves.

And I don't see how an overcrowded hospital is profitable. Especially if the people who owe you money don't have insurance and die.
What's more, there's more staff on board constantly doing screenings at the door. These people are already RN's, etc. and are getting overtime pay (which is hefty btw). Your staff will all end up getting that pay if things get bad. You have to order more supplies. Your resources are stretched thin- laundry, cafeteria, chaplain and social services, your lab testing. No more skeleton crews at night. And ICU beds are expensive. The drugs, the care required, the equipment required, the monitors. These things will have to be purchased, because most local hospitals that aren't Forsyth or Baptist don't have gigantic ICU's.

I have a feeling that the .gov will step in and pay hospitals for any "non-paying" cases.
 
Pardon me for not caring too much what the CEO of a hospital system says. He has one responsibility - to keep his hospital system profitable. His system being overloaded beyond a certain point is a liability to his company and his job. Of course he wants to control that. He is going to be drawing his paycheck even if 90% of Pitt County or the state of NC is unemployed.

One of the reasons that we don't have more hospitals is that guys like him have spent years and tons of money lobbying the state for limits on how many hospitals we have and where they can be built and by whom. They have used the force of government to protect themselves from competition.

He might be the greatest guy on earth, but I'd have to have that proven to me before I gave his opinion much weight.
I agree hospitals have been controlling the number of hospitals in areas with political connections. They have also controlled the number of doctors in schools as well to keep their salaries high.

We are a great nation who could build a hospital or at least a clinic in 30 days. If they can build a McDonald in that time I’m sure we have the resources to make it happen If China built one in 10 days I’m pretty sure 30 days is not unrealistic if it’s not a high rise type. I’d rather see some of that stimulus money go to a dedicated hospital regionally across the country for isolation of Chinese Flu patients and funding to get nurses and doctors on the streets faster. I’m sure there are plenty of unemployed people who could build those hospitals and earn a paycheck.
 
I have a feeling that the .gov will step in and pay hospitals for any "non-paying" cases.


I assume .gov will for non-paying COVID cases, but not all the traffic and non-paying cases will be COVID-19. Maybe not even the majority. My sister is an ER doctor in one of the states that locked down early and is point person for COVID-19 cases in her ER. She reports the VAST majority of traffic they are experiencing are not COVID-19 cases. It is people afraid they have it, even if it is their ankle hurting or something like that. That is what is overrunning her ER, despite their system handling a number of actual COVID patients.
 
I assume .gov will for non-paying COVID cases, but not all the traffic and non-paying cases will be COVID-19. Maybe not even the majority. My sister is an ER doctor in one of the states that locked down early and is point person for COVID-19 cases in her ER. She reports the VAST majority of traffic they are experiencing are not COVID-19 cases. It is people afraid they have it, even if it is their ankle hurting or something like that. That is what is overrunning her ER, despite their system handling a number of actual COVID patients.

We've established a pretty comprehensive triage algorithm within the HC system to prevent ED critical saturation. There are weaknesses, but so far, so good. If it gets like some think it will get, the algorithm goes out the window and the ED will be a shit magnet of epic proportion.
 
This...is absolutely, unequivocally true.....


For the record, I'm not trying to pick an argument with you or anyone else in the health industry. I posted that last night after a couple drinks and I was feeling a bit salty myself. I had typed and erased that post several times before then.

I am very jaded when it comes to healthcare management types, whether that is right or wrong. Too much negative experience to give me warm fuzzies about them and their opinions.
 
For the record, I'm not trying to pick an argument with you or anyone else in the health industry. I posted that last night after a couple drinks and I was feeling a bit salty myself. I had typed and erased that post several times before then.

I am very jaded when it comes to healthcare management types, whether that is right or wrong. Too much negative experience to give me warm fuzzies about them and their opinions.

I get it. Believe me. To me they get in the way of my job, which is taking care of people.
 
Repost from AR15.com for some numbers:

Screen_Shot_2020-03-24_at_9_07_10_AM-1330903.png



This one gets me a bit. It is number of dead vs infected off set by 2 weeks

Screen_Shot_2020-03-24_at_9_07_33_AM-1330908.png


I would like to think that it's because only very sick got tested and they did not yet have a treatment plan in place...
 
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This one gets me a bit. It is number of dead vs infected off set by 2 weeks
That's a good point. There is a lag function in the curve comparing currently infected to currently dead.

From everything I've read the key really does seem to be keeping the medical system from becoming overwhelmed. We don't want to become line Italy or Spain which seems to be following behind it. The math is simple, but counter intuitive to many and we simply don't have the resources to deal with this thing going unchecked. We've been warned by our friends in Europe. We've been warned by what we saw happening in China.

In terms of the math, it's like this. If you have a pond with a lily pad that reproduces (doubles) every day and it will take 48 days to cover the pond, how many days until it's halfway covered? The answer is 47. At day 46 it's only 1/4 covered. A few days before that, it's barely anything.
 
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AZ man dies after taking chloroquine thinking it would protect him from the virus.
Forbes reported that Trump said it was safe because it has been around a long time and he is responsible for the man's death.
Problem in the man and his wife took chloroquine phosphate - an aquarium cleaning product. Trump did not endorse all forms of chloroquine as safe.
The wife survived and blames Pres. Trump for the death of her husband.

https://news.trust.org/item/20200323225613-cmq3v
 
AZ man dies after taking chloroquine thinking it would protect him from the virus.
Forbes reported that Trump said it was safe because it has been around a long time and he is responsible for the man's death.
Problem in the man and his wife took chloroquine phosphate - an aquarium cleaning product. Trump did not endorse all forms of chloroquine as safe.
The wife survived and blames Pres. Trump for the death of her husband.

https://news.trust.org/item/20200323225613-cmq3v
Well, at least Darwin managed to get one of them.
The other one got away.
 
AZ man dies after taking chloroquine thinking it would protect him from the virus.
Forbes reported that Trump said it was safe because it has been around a long time and he is responsible for the man's death.
Problem in the man and his wife took chloroquine phosphate - an aquarium cleaning product. Trump did not endorse all forms of chloroquine as safe.
The wife survived and blames Pres. Trump for the death of her husband.

https://news.trust.org/item/20200323225613-cmq3v
Is that lady related to the Clintons?
 
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Did Trump say how much to take of the aquarium cleaner? That lady overdosed her husband, I demand an investigation :eek:
 
I wonder if it was her idea to take that chemical?
Of course it was ...
NBC News spoke to the wife ... "I had (the substance) in the house because I used to have koi fish," she told the network. "I saw it sitting on the back shelf and thought, 'Hey, isn't that the stuff they're talking about on TV?'"
 
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