Marine Corps Bans Public Display of Confederate Flag

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https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/23/us/marine-corps-confederate-flag.html

The commandant of the Marine Corps has banned the public display of the Confederate battle flag, a symbol that he said had the “power to inflame” division.

“I am mindful that many people believe that flag to be a symbol of heritage and regional pride,” Gen. David H. Berger said in a letter dated Monday and addressed to his fellow Marines. “But I am also mindful of the feelings of pain and rejection of those who inherited the cultural memory and present effects of the scourge of slavery in our country.”
 
"...I am also mindful of the feelings of pain and rejection of those who inherited the cultural memory and present effects of the scourge of slavery in our country.”

What, pray tell, are these present effects?

People easily speak indirectly of things that are difficult to express directly. An implication rolls right off the tongue without challenge, where a specific statement might be tough to stand behind.
 
I'll play devil's advocate here.

The South lost. The Confederacy failed. Move on.

You can claim southern pride and heritage all you want, but it's a losers flag. And in America, we don't celebrate losers. None of you fought for the South, and regardless if the war was over slavery, or economic trade with Europe, or States rights to self-govern and leave the union voluntarily, it's over.

Maybe your great great gran-daddy fought for one side or the other and you've pride in that. That's great. Maybe your the descendant of a slave. Well that sucks. But what's it to you? Learn the lessons of history so they aren't repeated and move on.

We're 155 years removed from the conflict. We've new issues today.

And for what it's worth, I believe states have the right to leave the union voluntarily and that the war was based off economic trade with Europe, and that slavery was dying off anyways with the invention of the cotton gin(amongst other things.)

But the South lost. Get over it.
 
Atla said:
I'll play devil's advocate here.

The South lost. The Confederacy failed. Move on.

You can claim southern pride and heritage all you want, but it's a losers flag. And in America, we don't celebrate losers. None of you fought for the South, and regardless if the war was over slavery, or economic trade with Europe, or States rights to self-govern and leave the union voluntarily, it's over.

Maybe your great great gran-daddy fought for one side or the other and you've pride in that. That's great. Maybe your the descendant of a slave. Well that sucks. But what's it to you? Learn the lessons of history so they aren't repeated and move on.

We're 155 years removed from the conflict. We've new issues today.

And for what it's worth, I believe states have the right to leave the union voluntarily and that the war was based off economic trade with Europe, and that slavery was dying off anyways with the invention of the cotton gin(amongst other things.)

But the South lost. Get over it.
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248D4F1D-244E-4F2C-83B9-E3B97C4423CD.gif
 
Atla said:
I'll play devil's advocate here.

The South lost. The Confederacy failed. Move on.

You can claim southern pride and heritage all you want, but it's a losers flag. And in America, we don't celebrate losers. None of you fought for the South, and regardless if the war was over slavery, or economic trade with Europe, or States rights to self-govern and leave the union voluntarily, it's over.

Maybe your great great gran-daddy fought for one side or the other and you've pride in that. That's great. Maybe your the descendant of a slave. Well that sucks. But what's it to you? Learn the lessons of history so they aren't repeated and move on.

We're 155 years removed from the conflict. We've new issues today.

And for what it's worth, I believe states have the right to leave the union voluntarily and that the war was based off economic trade with Europe, and that slavery was dying off anyways with the invention of the cotton gin(amongst other things.)

But the South lost. Get over it.
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^THIS^

Can't go around calling yourself a patriot while flying the flag of a past/defeated nation. That's akin to flying the Mexican flag over the Texas Capitol building....makes no sense. Feel free to celebrate your pride and the contributions of your ancestors however you choose but those flags shouldn't be flown by any American institution, military, etc. Its not patriotic. Was discussing this topic with a German friend of mine and he says his people laugh at it. To them it's about as stupid as German soldiers flying an SS or swastika flag or posting one up above the capital in Berlin.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
 
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Atla said:
I'll play devil's advocate here.

The South lost. The Confederacy failed. Move on.

You can claim southern pride and heritage all you want, but it's a losers flag. And in America, we don't celebrate losers. None of you fought for the South, and regardless if the war was over slavery, or economic trade with Europe, or States rights to self-govern and leave the union voluntarily, it's over.

Maybe your great great gran-daddy fought for one side or the other and you've pride in that. That's great. Maybe your the descendant of a slave. Well that sucks. But what's it to you? Learn the lessons of history so they aren't repeated and move on.

We're 155 years removed from the conflict. We've new issues today.

And for what it's worth, I believe states have the right to leave the union voluntarily and that the war was based off economic trade with Europe, and that slavery was dying off anyways with the invention of the cotton gin(amongst other things.)

But the South lost. Get over it.
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Now that's what I call pissing on a hornets' nest (though I do agree with you).
 
I figured the one flag that every Marine hates they would bar. Guess they can't get rid of the US Navy flag. For over 126 yrs my family were serfs in Europe as Poland cease to exist. No rights and their heritage was totally being destroyed. Didn't happen, Long Live Poland.


:p

CD
 
I think this is just another political display.

I'm predominately of English decent, but my Cherokee features are prominently displayed. I keep the Confederate Flag mostly to remind my northern in-laws that those who believe in the gross over-reach of the Federal government still exist.
 
There are all kinds of misrepresented, made up, imagined, and misappropriated traditions and symbols that annoy, even offend, me. But... I don't "demand" that anyone abandon traditions that mean something to them to just to appease my "feelings". I do understand, however, that butthurt victimhood is an appealing straitjacket for some.
 
Well, they should not. He absolutely has the right to do this, just as my employer has the right to limit what I can display in my office or at work. All branches, all bases (including barracks) should have the US flag, and service flags. You want a stars-and-bars, Black Power, KKK, whatever in your home off base? Have at it.

FWIW, I have a coffee mug at work, my USN lieutenant bars and name on one side, the original Naval jack (below) on the other. I have often been asked about "white power" and "white nationalist" connotations about it when the reality is it was the Navy's first combat flag flown at anchor. People are just gonna believe what they wanna believe.

images
 
Aardvark said:
There are all kinds of misrepresented, made up, imagined, and misappropriated traditions and symbols that annoy, even offend, me. But... I don't "demand" that anyone abandon traditions that mean something to them to just to appease my "feelings". I do understand, however, that butthurt victimhood is an appealing straitjacket for some.
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So basically - You are saying the two options are, either you ban them to appease some feelings, or you let them fly to appease others feelings.

That's why I choose to look at this rationally.
 
Atla said:
So basically - You are saying the two options are, either you ban them to appease some feelings, or you let them fly to appease others feelings.

That's why I choose to look at this rationally.
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Another option is just say no (to any non US or service flag) because the CMC said so. The CMC is a political animal, not in that position because he is necessarily a warrior, but I don't like that he would make any decision based on "feelings".
 
Atla said:
I'll play devil's advocate here.

The South lost. The Confederacy failed. Move on.

You can claim southern pride and heritage all you want, but it's a losers flag. And in America, we don't celebrate losers. None of you fought for the South, and regardless if the war was over slavery, or economic trade with Europe, or States rights to self-govern and leave the union voluntarily, it's over.

Maybe your great great gran-daddy fought for one side or the other and you've pride in that. That's great. Maybe your the descendant of a slave. Well that sucks. But what's it to you? Learn the lessons of history so they aren't repeated and move on.

We're 155 years removed from the conflict. We've new issues today.

And for what it's worth, I believe states have the right to leave the union voluntarily and that the war was based off economic trade with Europe, and that slavery was dying off anyways with the invention of the cotton gin(amongst other things.)

But the South lost. Get over it.
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We don't celebrate losers in the good ol USA?

Well I guess that Vietnam wall in DC has got to go then. Losers, and all...

Star Spangled Banner too, since we didn't win the war of 1812.
 
RedneckFur said:
We don't celebrate losers in the good ol USA?

Well I guess that Vietnam wall in DC has got to go then. Losers, and all...

Star Spangled Banner too, since we didn't win the war of 1812.
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Did our Vietnam veterans fight other Americans?

And just to nitpick - we are using a different flag now than we did in 1812. -wink-
 
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RedneckFur said:
We don't celebrate losers in the good ol USA?

Well I guess that Vietnam wall in DC has got to go then. Losers, and all...

Star Spangled Banner too, since we didn't win the war of 1812.
Click to expand...
Not the same since those Vietnam memorials are honoring those soldiers of The United States of America who lost their lives fighting in that war. We are still the USA.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
 
Atla said:
So basically - You are saying the two options are, either you ban them to appease some feelings, or you let them fly to appease others feelings.

That's why I choose to look at this rationally.
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You did not criticize the Marines' decision. You criticized a symbol and tradition. You enjoy your symbols traditions without my interference, why, I wonder, would you feel a urge to interfere in others' symbols and traditions?




Atla said:
That's why I choose to look at this rationally.
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:eek:

Atla said:
What are you trying to imply?
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:D
 
Aardvark said:
You did not criticize the Marines' decision. You criticized a symbol and tradition. You enjoy your symbols traditions without my interference, why, I wonder, would you feel a urge to interfere in others' symbols and traditions?
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I'm trying to think of a good comparison of any other symbols and traditions that I may use/partake in that are similar. And I'm drawing a blank.

Care to enlighten me?

And I could care less about individuals flying the Confederate flag at their home, sticker on their vehicles, or what have you. You've individual freedom to fly that. But flying it on a Government base or a Government building is different.

Chuckman said:
Well, they should not. He absolutely has the right to do this, just as my employer has the right to limit what I can display in my office or at work. All branches, all bases (including barracks) should have the US flag, and service flags. You want a stars-and-bars, Black Power, KKK, whatever in your home off base? Have at it.
Click to expand...

Exactly.
 
Atla said:
I'll play devil's advocate here.

The South lost. The Confederacy failed. Move on.

You can claim southern pride and heritage all you want, but it's a losers flag. And in America, we don't celebrate losers. None of you fought for the South, and regardless if the war was over slavery, or economic trade with Europe, or States rights to self-govern and leave the union voluntarily, it's over.

Maybe your great great gran-daddy fought for one side or the other and you've pride in that. That's great. Maybe your the descendant of a slave. Well that sucks. But what's it to you? Learn the lessons of history so they aren't repeated and move on.

We're 155 years removed from the conflict. We've new issues today.

And for what it's worth, I believe states have the right to leave the union voluntarily and that the war was based off economic trade with Europe, and that slavery was dying off anyways with the invention of the cotton gin(amongst other things.)

But the South lost. Get over it.
Click to expand...
The move was a move made purely to garner attention and make it seem like this marine is a social justice warrior for the offended few. For the record I think it is silly to fly the confederate flag. I am just beyond sick of this virtue signaling bullshit. It has taken over every aspect of society at this point. Can't wait for this whiny SJW bitch bullshit to finally be done. Instead of just issuing a change in policy this sjw decided to have a press conference and make a big show of his big social justice loving heart.
 
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Aardvark said:
Which is not in any way what you said in your first post in this thread. You attacked a symbol and denigrated the people who value it. Period. That and only that.

I wondered why.
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I should have made myself more clear.

It shouldn't be flown on any government building. And I think it's pointless for an individual to fly it - but they have that right. Just like people have the right to fly the Mexican flag on private property, or the BLM/Antifa flag. You can do it, I'll just disagree with it.
 
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Atla said:
I'm going to infer that you think I give a **** of your opinion of me.

I don't.

Sorry.
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Next time you edit your post, edit out the F bombs in the open areas of the forums. When your posts start getting removed, you’ll wonder why
 
Like most things when it comes to the confederate flag, its going to incite strong opinions and feelings. Which, is where my issue lies.

It they had just said "It isnt he current flag of the nation to which you serve." and left it at that, then cool. I work for a bank and am not supposed to wear the logo of competing banks, even though I may personally have accounts there. Its the "we dont want to hurt peoples feelings" part that is just irritating to me. As much as I personally view the old battle flag as a sign of pride, I fully understand that they are US Marines...not confederate marines...because lets face it...marines destroy things enough as it is.
 
Seems like it'd be easier to just delete the swear word out then the entire post.
 
Ikarus1 said:
"None of you fought for the South"

I counter to that: Nobody living has every experienced SLAVERY or the effects of it nor have you known anyone that has.

So get over it.
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I'm still waiting on the slavery memorial on the state grounds in South Carolina to be removed since the flag was pulled down. Wasn't part of the deal for keeping it flying having the memorial constructed? It's been a while, so forgive me if I am wrong about that.
 
Atla said:
I'll play devil's advocate here.

The South lost. The Confederacy failed. Move on.

You can claim southern pride and heritage all you want, but it's a losers flag. And in America, we don't celebrate losers. None of you fought for the South, and regardless if the war was over slavery, or economic trade with Europe, or States rights to self-govern and leave the union voluntarily, it's over.

Maybe your great great gran-daddy fought for one side or the other and you've pride in that. That's great. Maybe your the descendant of a slave. Well that sucks. But what's it to you? Learn the lessons of history so they aren't repeated and move on.

We're 155 years removed from the conflict. We've new issues today.

And for what it's worth, I believe states have the right to leave the union voluntarily and that the war was based off economic trade with Europe, and that slavery was dying off anyways with the invention of the cotton gin(amongst other things.)

But the South lost. Get over it.
Click to expand...

I'm guessing you "ain't from around here".
 
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