Leupold Mark 5 HD vs. Vortex Razor HD Gen II

Mitch Rapp

Bah, humbug. Shut up and look out the window.
Charter Life Member
Benefactor
Joined
Dec 17, 2016
Messages
8,972
Location
Cleveland Co, NC
Rating - 100%
27   0   0
Looking to upgrade glass for a long range bolt gun.
Currently looking at two possibilities:

Leupold Mark 5 HD
or
Vortex Razor HD Gen II

Which one and why?
Also, is there another one along the same tier I should be looking at?
Help me spend my money :)
 
Both are excellent scopes. I would look at the features and reticles and decide what you like. With the prices of Razor II scopes now it's tough to not like them. You can buy them new for $1600 and used down to $1300. That's a lot of scope for the money.

Liberty Optics has the 4.5-27 for $1599. Just add it to cart to see the price.
http://www.libertyoptics.com/contents/en-us/d128.html
 
Mission drives gear: which reticle do you prefer? Of the two, does one fit your need over the other? Me, I prefer the Leupold MK 5, but there's nothing wrong with the Razor. Same price range, also look at Nightforce. Not sure you can get a S&B that inexpensively, though.
 
Mission drives gear: which reticle do you prefer? Of the two, does one fit your need over the other? Me, I prefer the Leupold MK 5, but there's nothing wrong with the Razor. Same price range, also look at Nightforce. Not sure you can get a S&B that inexpensively, though.

this!

what do you need the scope to do?
Now, what do you want it to do?
How much can you afford?
A decent rule of theme is a minimum of $1 per yard. Need a 1000 yard scope, expect to pay $1000+

Also, what tube size do you want? 1” used to be standard, then 30mm. Now a lot have switched to 34 mm...
(Personally, I prefer 30mm to 34mm. But that is because the size of my eyes line up better, and I have faster acquisition at extended magnification.
If it was an entry/distance scope (1-8 power) I would want the 34mm simply because speed is even more crucial when you are up close.)

do you need illumination of the reticle?do you want wire or etched glass?
Do you want MOA or Mills?
how much dope do you need? Will you be using a mount/riser that has built in dope (say 20MOA) ?
 
Last edited:
Looking to upgrade glass for a long range bolt gun.
Currently looking at two possibilities:

Leupold Mark 5 HD
or
Vortex Razor HD Gen II

Which one and why?
Also, is there another one along the same tier I should be looking at?
Help me spend my money :)

Guess you’ll need to be selling something shiny to help fund that. :p

Will travel for CZ’s. :cool:
 
I have been looking for a scope for long range as well. Narrowed it down to a few and really liked the leupold mark 5. I did not expect it to be a 35mm tube. I really like leupolds scope bases and rings but haven’t seen many options to mount 35mm from their sight. Other than that it topped my list. I like the TMR reticle as well.

ETA: I also really liked it was made in good ol ‘Merica!
 
Last edited:
So, yeah...should been more specific in the op.

Recreational long range shooter not doing competitions.
Glass that me and my rifle can grow into as I upgrade both me and the rifle.
Reticle and moa/mil are largely unimportant. Both come in moa or mil and both have tree type reticles for holdovers.
Budget: 2k

I was hoping Id get a discussion comparing glass clarity, how tactile the turrets were even with gloves on, durability, build quality, what you like/dont like about each, etc.

You know, a comparison of the two.
 
Last edited:
Well I never used a Mark 5 but have used S&B, NF, Hensoldt, USO and others and I don't feel the glass in the Razor II holds me back at all. It's pretty damn good actually. When I first got my first Razor II about 6 years ago I put it next to my S&B PMII scopes and glass was right there. I let about 4 or 5 other guys at my club look through both side by side on different days and they all were pretty impressed. The knobs on the Razor II are very audible and tactile and have a locking feature. Also a very nice feature is the clickless zeroing. Some say it's harder but it's worth the second or two to take the cap off. There is a video below but now they come with a small multi tool so no need for the items shown. The clickless zeroing allows a perfect zero so not a little off between clicks.

The scope is very durable. Been beating mine around at matches and never an issue. Might be from the solid build quality and the only "bad" thing people say about the Razor II being it's weight. They are built solid. I laugh at most of the weight comments as they usually come from match shooters shooting 20+ pound rifle that they add weight to. LOL Is the Razor II the scope to put on a mountain rifle? Hell no but for a target rifle or match rifle it's extra 10 ounces over similar scopes is not a problem. The Mark 5 is one of the lighter in that range at about 30 ounces so it's 18 ounces lighter. If you needed that light of weight the AMG would be the better choice over the Razor II but for your stated needs the weight won't be a problem.

The 7C is a great usable reticle also. A small dot for precise work and also a Christmas tree for holds or calling corrections. Enough marks to be seen and use but not so many it's a hindrance or clutters.

I shutter to mention this as you always get some hater in yelling "you are gonna need it" but the VIP Warranty is also excellent insurance. If something was to happen which rarely happens with the Razor II, you will have a fast turn around of usually less than a week. Also the VIP Warranty does not just cover mechanical issues. It covers accidental damage. Drop it from a tree stand and it's covered. Repair or replace. Same if you ran it over with a truck, slipped off the shooting bench, or got burnt in a house fire. That's nice insurance.

Any specific questions let me know.



V vs S&B.jpg
 
Thanks @Rob01 !! Very helpful

@BowWow Thats the one Im looking at...albeit the mil version. I've probably read all the same stuff you have and was hoping to get a users take on it here.
 
NightForce uses etched glass in their reticle.
I believe Leupold uses wire, which can change point of impact especially when going from one magnification to another. Also when using the illuminated reticle.
I do know that the MK4 line and Leupold in general did have a cam issue where the cams would not reset properly. This was a long time ago (2008 ish) so it may have been corrected.

Most of my experience is with NightForce, which is 90-95% as good as the Schmidt and Bender.
Op, think about that- you are not depending on this setup with your life, so absolute top of the line performance is not an issue. By this I mean a Mustang is fast, a Corvette faster, and a Ferrari even faster, but look at the entry price points- 30k, 60k, 200k
How much better is one versus another?
 
NightForce uses etched glass in their reticle.
I believe Leupold uses wire, which can change point of impact especially when going from one magnification to another. Also when using the illuminated reticle.
I do know that the MK4 line and Leupold in general did have a cam issue where the cams would not reset properly. This was a long time ago (2008 ish) so it may have been corrected.

Most of my experience is with NightForce, which is 90-95% as good as the Schmidt and Bender.
Op, think about that- you are not depending on this setup with your life, so absolute top of the line performance is not an issue. By this I mean a Mustang is fast, a Corvette faster, and a Ferrari even faster, but look at the entry price points- 30k, 60k, 200k
How much better is one versus another?

I thought leupold had done away with the wire reticles........
 
Just from my circle of shooters, they don't really hold the Mark 5 in high regard... they say the Mark 4 is better.

They all shoot the Razor's or Bushnell DMR2's....

Always like to hear dissenting opinions, too, but qualify it.

Why do they not like the Mk 5?
What made them choose the Mk 4, Razor, or DMR II?
 
Last edited:
The Mark 5 are etched glass reticles also. Doubt you will find any scope in those price ranges with wire especially with a Christmas tree reticle.
 
Always like to hear dissenting opinions, too, but qualify it.

Why do they not like the Mk 5?
What made them choose the Mk 4, Razor, or DMR II?

They like the Mk4 mostly because they were used to the Mark 4's. All of them had at least one on one of their rigs.

They just felt that the Mk5, compared to the Razor and DMR's, was not worth the price tag and the clarity, repeatability and FOV was better.

One of the guys actually got a Mark 5 and had some repeatability issues, which Leupold took care of.. but in a close group of shooters they are like a ladies knitting club. So the negativity gets around quick.
 
Razor G2 is the one I chose. hard to beat it for a reliable, cost effective, very clear scope. I have also owned about all the other major brands and keep going back to the razor for my long range needs. What ever scope you end up with between the 2 choices will be a great optic.
 
I do like that the Mark 5 has been selected as the Army precision sniper rifle program.

https://www.leupold.com/leupold-cor...lected-by-army-precision-sniper-rifle-program

I ended up buying the Mark 5 3.6-18x44 TMR reticle. Can’t wait to get it in, shoot with it and test it out.

Interesting.
I am surprised that anyone beat out S&B...
I sincerely want to believe that this is because the tests were fair and honest and they are giving our snipers the absolute best tools. I sincerely want to believe that, but you know, it could be a political pork barrel and such...
I hope it’s not.
 
Last edited:
They like the Mk4 mostly because they were used to the Mark 4's. All of them had at least one on one of their rigs.

They just felt that the Mk5, compared to the Razor and DMR's, was not worth the price tag and the clarity, repeatability and FOV was better.

One of the guys actually got a Mark 5 and had some repeatability issues, which Leupold took care of.. but in a close group of shooters they are like a ladies knitting club. So the negativity gets around quick.

My time behind a Mark 5 is limited, but I thought it was worlds better than the Mark 4, on which I cut my teeth in the military.

I cannot say that it is better or worse than the others, but I have no problem saying that it could hold its own against the others. I thought the repeatability was 'as good as' definitely. No issues with other regards either.

I know the Razor has a cult-like fan club, but if I were spending big money on a new optic it would probably be 3rd or 4th on my list. Again, just personal preferences.
 
NightForce uses etched glass in their reticle.
I believe Leupold uses wire, which can change point of impact especially when going from one magnification to another. Also when using the illuminated reticle.
I do know that the MK4 line and Leupold in general did have a cam issue where the cams would not reset properly. This was a long time ago (2008 ish) so it may have been corrected.

Most of my experience is with NightForce, which is 90-95% as good as the Schmidt and Bender.
Op, think about that- you are not depending on this setup with your life, so absolute top of the line performance is not an issue. By this I mean a Mustang is fast, a Corvette faster, and a Ferrari even faster, but look at the entry price points- 30k, 60k, 200k
How much better is one versus another?

Ill have to disagree with you on that. S&B is on a different world clarity wise, I think NF is more fanboi than even the razors. Kind of like the US optics of the early 2000. OP best bang for the buck are the Bushnell Tact Elite series and as mentioned before most comp shooters are running them and Razors. Just hard to beat for the $$$$$$$. Up in the stratosphere there are better offerings than the NF for comparable money but with NF there is always a fanboi to sell too so that does enter the convo. You wont be disappointed in the Leupold, Razor, or the Tact elite honestly.
 
NightForce uses etched glass in their reticle.
I believe Leupold uses wire, which can change point of impact especially when going from one magnification to another. Also when using the illuminated reticle.
I do know that the MK4 line and Leupold in general did have a cam issue where the cams would not reset properly. This was a long time ago (2008 ish) so it may have been corrected.

Most of my experience is with NightForce, which is 90-95% as good as the Schmidt and Bender.
Op, think about that- you are not depending on this setup with your life, so absolute top of the line performance is not an issue. By this I mean a Mustang is fast, a Corvette faster, and a Ferrari even faster, but look at the entry price points- 30k, 60k, 200k
How much better is one versus another?

Also, I highly doubt any "christmas tree" reticle from any company is wire lol
 
Anyone got a zero compromise optic? They are pretty spendy. Didn’t know if they were any better than s&b ?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Gonna hafta give us your thoughts when you do

Absolutely will give feedback.


Interesting.
I am surprised that anyone beat out S&B...
I sincerely want to believe that this is because the tests were fair and honest and they are giving our snipers the absolute best tools. I sincerely want to believe that, but you know, it could be a political pork barrel and such...
I hope it’s not.

I agree. Hope it wasn’t political nonsense. I’m curious to know the particulars behind their decision.
 
This thread is relevant to me because I too am considering getting a Leupold Mk. V HD. Specifically the 7-35x model. Getting it for a 308win precision rifle. In my eyes, I'd rather have a scope that I buy once, it last me the rest of my life and I never get tired of it. Something that is well-made, American made, and whose brand is reputable because of a long-standing history of quality, rather than somewhat unfounded or overhyped fanboying. That to me is the Leupold, but the truth is I don't know and I don't pretend to know. I'm not saying Vortex is bad, but I am saying that Leupold is a known quantity across shooters of all disciplines. From an outsider's perspective, it feels like the safe bet in terms of getting a great product, even if it costs a bit more.

That said, $2000-$2600 is a lot to spend on a small piece of metal with funny lenses in it, so it's best not to be stubborn about one's choices if one is objectively incorrect.
 
Last edited:
The Mk5 HDs are popping up on more precision rifle rigs and really gaining in popularity...I’m seeing a lot more of them than I used to but NF, Razors, etc still have a good showing

If I were buying an optic that was in the $1800+ price range, I’d be spending some time hands on. There’s no way I could buy one sight unseen.

I’d narrow the list down based on features and then go find them locally (even if I bought online later).

@draco88 use your .mil and check out the Razor HD prices on Expert Voice
 
If you want American Made then the most American made scope you will find is the Vortex AMG. Everything, including glass, is US made with the exception of the reticle, which is German. One part. You can get them for $1799 at Liberty Optics. You can get the Razor II for $1599. Put them in the cart for the price. http://www.libertyoptics.com/contents/en-us/d128.html
 
I thought......Vortex is american owned but mostly made overseas??
 
I thought......Vortex is american owned but mostly made overseas??

Yes Vortex is American, veteran and family owned business. Some scope models are made in China, Philippines, and Japan but the AMG is made here in America. Even the Japanese Razor II scopes are brought in and rebuilt in their shop in WI to add the knobs. Vortex has upped their game over the years since their 1986 start.
 
Well I never used a Mark 5 but have used S&B, NF, Hensoldt, USO and others and I don't feel the glass in the Razor II holds me back at all. It's pretty damn good actually. When I first got my first Razor II about 6 years ago I put it next to my S&B PMII scopes and glass was right there. I let about 4 or 5 other guys at my club look through both side by side on different days and they all were pretty impressed. The knobs on the Razor II are very audible and tactile and have a locking feature. Also a very nice feature is the clickless zeroing. Some say it's harder but it's worth the second or two to take the cap off. There is a video below but now they come with a small multi tool so no need for the items shown. The clickless zeroing allows a perfect zero so not a little off between clicks.

The scope is very durable. Been beating mine around at matches and never an issue. Might be from the solid build quality and the only "bad" thing people say about the Razor II being it's weight. They are built solid. I laugh at most of the weight comments as they usually come from match shooters shooting 20+ pound rifle that they add weight to. LOL Is the Razor II the scope to put on a mountain rifle? Hell no but for a target rifle or match rifle it's extra 10 ounces over similar scopes is not a problem. The Mark 5 is one of the lighter in that range at about 30 ounces so it's 18 ounces lighter. If you needed that light of weight the AMG would be the better choice over the Razor II but for your stated needs the weight won't be a problem.

The 7C is a great usable reticle also. A small dot for precise work and also a Christmas tree for holds or calling corrections. Enough marks to be seen and use but not so many it's a hindrance or clutters.

I shutter to mention this as you always get some hater in yelling "you are gonna need it" but the VIP Warranty is also excellent insurance. If something was to happen which rarely happens with the Razor II, you will have a fast turn around of usually less than a week. Also the VIP Warranty does not just cover mechanical issues. It covers accidental damage. Drop it from a tree stand and it's covered. Repair or replace. Same if you ran it over with a truck, slipped off the shooting bench, or got burnt in a house fire. That's nice insurance.

Any specific questions let me know.



View attachment 216019

I had a terrible experience with vortex warranty... it was complete BS. I spent several weeks with a rep named Mike before getting an RMA. Ultimately they replaced the scope but I’ve never considered them since.
Leupold on the other hand, is just as good as the old Sears/Craftsman warranty. I’ve lost dust covers and they’ve shipped them overnight for free.. when I tried to pay I got a “we make money by selling quality scopes, not selling parts” the list goes on and it has always been my stupidity that caused me to need them.... I’ve never had a scope issue with them.
 
I had a terrible experience with vortex warranty... it was complete BS. I spent several weeks with a rep named Mike before getting an RMA. Ultimately they replaced the scope but I’ve never considered them since.
Leupold on the other hand, is just as good as the old Sears/Craftsman warranty. I’ve lost dust covers and they’ve shipped them overnight for free.. when I tried to pay I got a “we make money by selling quality scopes, not selling parts” the list goes on and it has always been my stupidity that caused me to need them.... I’ve never had a scope issue with them.

You are the only person I have ever heard about with that experience with Vortex CS. Guess any company can have a bad experience.
 
I had a terrible experience with vortex warranty... it was complete BS. I spent several weeks with a rep named Mike before getting an RMA. Ultimately they replaced the scope but I’ve never considered them since.
Leupold on the other hand, is just as good as the old Sears/Craftsman warranty. I’ve lost dust covers and they’ve shipped them overnight for free.. when I tried to pay I got a “we make money by selling quality scopes, not selling parts” the list goes on and it has always been my stupidity that caused me to need them.... I’ve never had a scope issue with them.
You experience is the EXACT opposite experience that Vortex is known for universally. These are the people that replace scopes that have been intentionally ran over with bulldozers no questions asked. Are you sure you are not confused with another company? I have had to jump through hoops to get bushnell and leupold scopes repaired/replaced and heard numerous stories similar to yours about those 2 but never about vortex.
 
Back
Top Bottom