Owner of outdoor limited has lost his Mind

wvsig said:
Executive orders are extremely narrow in their scope. They are used where there is ambiguity and wiggle room like say Bump stocks and pistol braces. They are not a tool which will hold up on fundamental issues. I may be wrong but if I was a betting man which I am I think that the Dems are smart enough to understand executive orders are not an effect tool to deal with the 2nd if you want it to hold up. YMMV

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Bumps stocks and braces were not done under EO's. An EO is a rather formal process. The bump stock thing was just a phone call telling the acting head of the ATF to do something they had no authority to do when they knew they had no authority to do it. EO's get cleared by legal before the President signs so they dont end up in court. .
 
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wired said:
Bumps stocks and braces were not done under EO's. An EO is a rather formal process. The bump stock thing was just a phone call telling the acting head of the ATF to do something they had no authority to do when they knew they had no authority to do it. EO's get cleared by legal before the President signs so they dont end up in court. .
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Right like the travel ban and the wall. Both of those were stopped by the judiciary. That door swings both ways.
 
wvsig said:
much bigger fish to fry then guns and ammo. The Economy, COVID, Immigration, etc... are all taking precedence over guns right now.
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They're printing money fast, running with the vaccine that was handed to them, and opening the door to anyone who can sneak over. Sounds like they have a few of the biggies already done.

But maybe you're right, they'll want to save some political capital for raising taxes after they crush the economy.
 
vp9c said:
i’ve started sharpening all of the edges on my guns because it’s cheaper to throw them at a bad guy than shoot them 😂
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🤔 THAT’S WHY the Dims always throw bayonet lugs on the AWB characteristics list ... they we’re planning for ammo shortages as well ... didn’t what people to be able to “Fix Bayonets!”.
 
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"THAT’S WHY the Dims always throw bayonet lugs on the AWB characteristics list ... they we’re planning for ammo shortages as well ... didn’t what people to be able to “Fix Bayonets!”.

Xibiden is comming for your bayonet's next.
 
It appeared to me the “market price” for 9mm ball, at today’s Salisbury show, was $40/box. I didn’t notice anybody walking around with more than a box or two and didn’t see dealers sell out.
 
wvsig said:
Obama was much more capable and popular and got ZERO done. What makes you think Sleepy Joe is going to seal the deal. It makes no sense to me that everyone acknowledges his shortcoming and weaknesses yet in the same breathe believes he is going to pull off what has not been done since the Clinton area. Think about it logically. It does not make sense. Obama had better support and a stronger majority in Congress yet got nothing done.
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That is very true to a point. BHO, however, did a very good job conditioning the people, especially among the younger generations, that socialism and communism are socially acceptable in this country, that this country has been the evil empire, and that the direction of the country must take a hard left turn. He did not accomplish what he wanted but he continued setting the stage for future people to do so. Hillary was next in line for power, and HBO had her set up to slide more quickly down the slippery slope. Many more voters than before are anxious to give up their freedoms these days. That may not really matter since the libs have figured out how to make the voters somewhat irrelevant. I think BHO's handlers were smart enough not to press the issue until they could be confident of victory. I imagine Creepy Joe's handlers are thinking the time may be ripe real soon. Perhaps it will be Spread Eagle who makes the push. The press will be behind her all the way, most women will back her to the hilt, and the younger generation will not object since they have been indoctrinated that having guns in the hands of private citizens is horrible. They have also not been taught the lessons of history.
 
The people who have lost their minds are the people buying. No different than the people who buy a generator after a storm, have it for a few months and sell it for a hard loss. Only to do it all over again when another outage happens.
 
I’m all for capitalism. The Outdoor Limited owners are capitalizing on those without. That’s fine for now. What about when or if ammo becomes more abundant?

There is going to be a bunch of actual sport shooters who looked at their website and seen they were another cheaper than dirt. Those one and two time buyers will disappear.
 
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wvsig said:
Obama was much more capable and popular and got ZERO done. What makes you think Sleepy Joe is going to seal the deal. It makes no sense to me that everyone acknowledges his shortcoming and weaknesses yet in the same breathe believes he is going to pull off what has not been done since the Clinton area. Think about it logically. It does not make sense. Obama had better support and a stronger majority in Congress yet got nothing done.

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They weren't as militant far left as they are now.

Back when Obama was president, the term "socialist" was offensive. Today it's met with a shrug.

When he ran the first time, remember he had to declare during the debates that marriage was between one and one woman? That seems like ancient history now.

No, these are not your average Democrats of the past 50 years. These people are avowed socialists..... and incredibly cocky. CNN has them convinced everyone thinks like they do. They're going for the jugular first chance they get.
 
BlackGun said:
I’m all for capitalism. The Outdoor Limited owners are capitalizing on those without. That’s fine for now. What about when or if ammo becomes more abundant?

There is going to be a bunch of actual sport shooters who looked at their website and seen they were another cheaper than dirt. Those one and two time buyers will disappear.
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It's not just them it's everyone. I keep hearing schlock like it's commodities prices going up. Yeah, that would account for a dollar or two a case. It's profit making pure and simple.They ran for years barely making anything. Get it while you can I say. It'll collapse soon enough.
 
wired said:
It's not just them it's everyone. I keep hearing schlock like it's commodities prices going up. Yeah, that would account for a dollar or two a case. It's profit making pure and simple.They ran for years barely making anything. Get it while you can I say. It'll collapse soon enough.
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Even if 9mm dropped to $.40 pr a day at an indoor range is a $80 trip.

Ammo retail sellers can get it now for all I care. The issue will be buyers will quit shooting for fun and many will have replaced that activity with something else as a hobby. So when ammo decreases those people will be boaters, golfers, bikers, campers, etc...

Do you renew your range membership when their is fear of ammo shortage and high prices? I thinking of that scenario now with skeet. Maybe I replace that activity with a jet ski or golf membership.
 
BlackGun said:
There is going to be a bunch of actual sport shooters who looked at their website and seen they were another cheaper than dirt. Those one and two time buyers will disappear.
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I’m probably one of those. With the exception of occasional crazy cheap bulk deals (the great WM blowout, for example), I bought everything from OL. I was proud to support such a worthy local business and touted them high and low. When things get back to normal ( 🤔 ), I’m not sure I’ll feel the same.
 
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I've been curious about this.

Are smaller retailers going up on ammo (or any inventory) they actually get in stock. In order to meet their bottom line?

If whatever company usually sells 10 cases a week but now they can only get in 2 per week. It would make sense that they have to price those two cases high enough to meet the same bottom line they have always had to in order to stay afloat.

I mean, this industry is low margin anyway. So if my bottom line is always selling a certain number of widgets per week and suddenly I can only get 1/10th of that quantity. I would have to still meet my bottom line with the low number of widgets I get to stay afloat.


It's worrisome for me in regards to the couple lgs's I do like. They aren't getting anything in to sell. But they still gotta keep the lights on with what they do get. Yet the additional cost per item to me the customer is higher than I'm willing to pay...

Quite the predicament for the industry😣
 
Jeppo said:
I’m probably one of those. With the exception of occasional crazy cheap bulk deals (the great WM blowout, for example), I bought everything from OL. I was proud to support such a worthy local business and touted them high and low. When things get back to normal ( 🤔 ), I’m not sure I’ll feel the same.
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Given they only have a few employees I doubt they care after the shortage. Shut the doors and call it quits. Its the American way.
 
Trevillian said:
I've been curious about this.

Are smaller retailers going up on ammo (or any inventory) they actually get in stock. In order to meet their bottom line?

If whatever company usually sells 10 cases a week but now they can only get in 2 per week. It would make sense that they have to price those two cases high enough to meet the same bottom line they have always had to in order to stay afloat.

I mean, this industry is low margin anyway. So if my bottom line is always selling a certain number of widgets per week and suddenly I can only get 1/10th of that quantity. I would have to still meet my bottom line with the low number of widgets I get to stay afloat.


It's worrisome for me in regards to the couple lgs's I do like. They aren't getting anything in to sell. But they still gotta keep the lights on with what they do get. Yet the additional cost per item to me the customer is higher than I'm willing to pay...

Quite the predicament for the industry😣
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You know what? If I owned an LGS the only ammo going out the door would be to my customers who bought guns and accessories from me now or in the past. Local stores should be loyal only to the people who bought from them instead of Walmart and online. Did I buy online guns- yes. But I bought most from local stores because they were small business owners.
 
BlackGun said:
I’m all for capitalism. The Outdoor Limited owners are capitalizing on those without. That’s fine for now. What about when or if ammo becomes more abundant?

There is going to be a bunch of actual sport shooters who looked at their website and seen they were another cheaper than dirt. Those one and two time buyers will disappear.
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I disagree on "another cheaper than dirt".

CTD lost me by cancelling an order I placed for in stock inventory at a given price via email claiming it was OOS. After charging me. After sending the order confirmation.

Then 12-14hrs (overnight) later, sending an email again saying "good news! These items are in stock!) But at a 500% markup...

THAT pissed me off.
 
This discussion recalled for me an episode in my career. With the Eye-talians, we had a period where we couldn’t meet demand. Incoming orders were like a tidal wave.

As we ramped up production (which took a very long time), we threw money at overtime, outsourcing and expedited transport (we sold with a delivered price so shipping costs were on us). We spent so much money that profits actually declined on vastly increased sales.

The company was listed on the NYSE and part of my job was explaining our performance to investors (mostly large fund managers). I was frequently asked why we didn’t simply raise our prices to better calibrate demand with our capacity AND improve margins.

My answer was always the same...

“Our competitors are already scrambling to take advantage of our slow delivery times. They are already conquering some of our retail slots. If we don’t react, and instead gouge our customers, how will we ever get that space back when we have sufficient capacity? Do you prefer a temporary windfall profit or a solid and profitable business for the long term?”
 
BlackGun said:
You know what? If I owned an LGS the only ammo going out the door would be to my customers who bought guns and accessories from me now or in the past. Local stores should be loyal only to the people who bought from them instead of Walmart and online. Did I buy online guns- yes. But I bought most from local stores because they were small business owners.
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Yeah, I understand that. But the "good ol' boys network" who are loyal patrons at your FFL.

Are the exact group who won't stomach normal items tripling in price. I can't afford to keep a LGS afloat just out of loyalty. If they will only sell to us and other "regulars" they will not make it. They still have to meet that bottom line to keep the doors open regardless of good intentions, loyal patrons, etc.

I hate that, but I do understand.
 
Trevillian said:
Yeah, I understand that. But the "good ol' boys network" who are loyal patrons at your FFL.

Are the exact group who won't stomach normal items tripling in price. I can't afford to keep a LGS afloat just out of loyalty. If they will only sell to us and other "regulars" they will not make it. They still have to meet that bottom line to keep the doors open regardless of good intentions, loyal patrons, etc.

I hate that, but I do understand.
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Its being done now by many LGS. They have no problem selling all their ammo. It keeps people coming into their store for other items. If I don’t pay a transfer fee and shipping another $20 bucks doesn’t break me. Knowing me by name and appreciating the business goes a long way.
 
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Outdoor Limited has changed/grown from what is use to be. They moved to a bigger building and opened a brick and mortar store (currently closed during the C-19 panic). David’s original “warehouse” setup I’m guessing ran lean & mean on overhead costs (people and building) but as he grew and opened the store his operating overhead costs grew (higher rent, utilities, more employee, etc) also ... the market shifts and he is looking at the higher operating costs while his cost of goods from the suppliers & manufacturers goes up. Since the business is not as lean as it was years back he has less room to be flexible and has to pass his higher cost of goods and increased operational costs on to the buyers especially for the rent and bare minimum utilities on the brick and mortar store that hasn’t been open in almost a year. I’m guessing David kinda wishes he was back in the old building doing business the way they use to.
 
Trevillian said:
I've been curious about this.

Are smaller retailers going up on ammo (or any inventory) they actually get in stock. In order to meet their bottom line?

If whatever company usually sells 10 cases a week but now they can only get in 2 per week. It would make sense that they have to price those two cases high enough to meet the same bottom line they have always had to in order to stay afloat.

I mean, this industry is low margin anyway. So if my bottom line is always selling a certain number of widgets per week and suddenly I can only get 1/10th of that quantity. I would have to still meet my bottom line with the low number of widgets I get to stay afloat.


It's worrisome for me in regards to the couple lgs's I do like. They aren't getting anything in to sell. But they still gotta keep the lights on with what they do get. Yet the additional cost per item to me the customer is higher than I'm willing to pay...

Quite the predicament for the industry😣
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This is what I have been told by a few people. They are getting 1/5 of what they would normally get. So if they 100,000 rounds a week or 2,000 50 count boxes. They were selling it for $10 a box and making $2 a box. Than means they were netting $4,000. Now they are only getting 20,000 rounds or 400 boxes so in order to net the same amount of money to keep the doors open, pay the bills, pay the employees etc.... they need to make $10 a box to maintain the same gross margin. This does not even account for increases in pricing. Everyone is getting less than they normally do industry wide. The smaller you are the less you are getting.

I used to buy from Outdoor Limited even though I paid tax and shipping because he was in the state and a small business. I almost bought his free shipping membership before everything went south. He was a little more than the cheapest I could find but the service was good and @Jeppo said he was he best. LOL If however his pricing goes back to some of the lowest in the industry I will consider buying from him again. His current pricing has not harmed me because I have not paid his price. So there is no ill will. I just think his pricing is currently some of the worst in the industry but at least he always has something in stock.
 
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@wvsig pretty sure biden has come out saying he wants to use congress for gun control and not EO because EOs are much easier to undo. I agree most people are freaking out and it's surprising to see those cci cases to sit for so long when just 3 months ago 50cpr was flying off the shelves. Market will correct soon but idk if 30cpr for 9 will be the end of the year but 50 cpr or maybe even 45cpr on shelves is soon I think.
 
Squanchy said:
@wvsig pretty sure biden has come out saying he wants to use congress for gun control and not EO because EOs are much easier to undo. I agree most people are freaking out and it's surprising to see those cci cases to sit for so long when just 3 months ago 50cpr was flying off the shelves. Market will correct soon but idk if 30cpr for 9 will be the end of the year but 50 cpr or maybe even 45cpr on shelves is soon I think.
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Blazer 50 count boxes flew off the sites on 2 big sites today. Availablity it getting better not worse. Pricing will follow eventually. $.30 might be optimistic but you never know.
 
Squanchy said:
@wvsig pretty sure biden has come out saying he wants to use congress for gun control and not EO because EOs are much easier to undo. I agree most people are freaking out and it's surprising to see those cci cases to sit for so long when just 3 months ago 50cpr was flying off the shelves. Market will correct soon but idk if 30cpr for 9 will be the end of the year but 50 cpr or maybe even 45cpr on shelves is soon I think.
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In Stock today with limits at Sportsman's Warehouse in Asheville.

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Squanchy said:
That's awesome, I guess there's a lower percentage of people who are shooters in Asheville?
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Yeah, but try to find tofu and bean sprouts. 😂
 
I was not there but I get updates on FB. They post when they get shipments. The limit you to one bulk box or 2 regular boxes.
 
wvsig said:
I was not there but I get updates on FB. They post when they get shipments. The limit you to one bulk box or 2 regular boxes.
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How late are they open? I can probably be there by midnight. 🤓
 
Jeppo said:
Yeah, but try to find tofu and bean sprouts. 😂
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Wrong line bud this in the line for 9mm. LMAO Tofu burrito line is over there.
Squanchy said:
That's awesome, I guess there's a lower percentage of people who are shooters in Asheville?
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They get it in stock and post the pics to FB. They keep it behind the registers up front. They can control it and limit it that way. It give people a chance to get it. Last time I was in the area and was talking to the kid at the gun counter he was tell me people get it and turn around and try to flip it to people in line.

They also has $.065 22LR.

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