Lasers for EDC, yay or nay?

Flashpoint

Flashpoint

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I recently bought a used handgun that came with laser grips. I didn't really care about the laser grips, I just wanted the handgun and thought I would sell them and replace them with something else. That was before I realized they were part of this model from the factory which is a pretty penny over the other models so I'm not sure I should break it up. So now I either keep them or sell the whole package and get another model.

If I do decide to use the laser I'll need to train my trigger finger to stay out of the way because unless it's in the trigger guard it typically blocks the beam.

It's a very small 9mm, actually more 380 sized, so I can see the attraction of having a laser on something so short it would be hard to point shoot when there is no time for a proper sight picture. I've just never given any thought to it and am wondering what the general consensus is on EDC lasers here.

Kimber Micro 9 "Woodland Night"
39977-DEFAULT-l.jpg
 
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Being left handed, those styles never really work for me since they end up getting covered up by my thumbs.

I did have a G23 with the Laser Max guide rod back in the early 2000s because it was what the cool kids had. I have one of the S&W 38SPL Bodyguards with the built in laser, but honestly the button is so small, I'd not likely get it activated.

I think the RDS have replaced a lot of the lasers, would seem redundant to me.

I have a couple of WML light / laser combos, one is on a bedside gun, the other is one an iron sighted Ruger PCC where it really works well, to the point I've not put a RDS on it.
 
Kimber Micro 9 Woodland Night

MSRP:
$516.92
Used Price:
$1,359.20
New Price:
$410.25

Boy those are some odd numbers.

Kimber Micro 9 Woodland Night For Sale, Review, Price - $1,359.20 - In Stock

Find Gun Reviews and information regarding shooting sports. All firearm reviews and from actual shooters and enthusiasts. Start writing your gun reviews today!
www.guncritic.com www.guncritic.com
 
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I just don't trust mechanical devices to take the place of iron sights.
And bright sun or certain colors can turn it into a guessing game
To many variables
 
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Lasers are good for a few things, mostly off axis shooting. Meaning, lets say you fall down and need to shoot around a object on the floor and can not gain a standard shooting position, you can just point the firearm, activate the laser and go to work.

If in a team environment, they let the team member know what area you are covering and what area they should pickup.

Lastly, when covering down on a suspect, you can keep the laser on them, while you scan for threats. This allows you to break front sight focus and observe your environment, but still keep a accurate point of aim on the near threat.
 
From my days in MI:

Solid firearms defense atty recommended that you do NOT have laser on EDC. 2 clients were convicted after they drew and illuminated target but did NOT fire. Prosecutors claimed this was brandishing / menacing / assault [illuminees felt fear etc - legal assault threshold.]

At the time I sold 2 pairs of Crimson trace grips.

Irony is that an actual shooting may have been protected under MI self defense law - these folks were put in legal jeopardy since they did NOT shoot anyone.

Ill see if I can find the old thread from MGO forums - Jim Simmons was the atty. And as always states/counties differ and YMMV.

Disclaimer - I still have an M6 light/laser combo on my 'in the house' G20 and the 1911 laser camo grips that came OEM on my Kimber Custom Covert. Just not on EDC compact carry guns.
 
And off we go !! I got most of the facts at least half right . . .

Michigan Gun Owners Community Forum

Gun Rights Activism Grass Roots
www.migunowners.org

An observation regarding lasers on firearms from a defense lawyer's perspective​

In the past few years I have defended many people who have drawn their firearm in self-defense and lit up their assailant with a laser. Each considered it a lawful use of less-than-lethal self defense but each were ultimately charged criminally for Assault with a Deadly Weapon and Felony Firearm.

In each of those instances the prosecutors have characterized the lasers as being a tool to threaten and intimidate people. They always emphasize how the defendant is shining that red light on their head/chest/etc. and how frightened the victims are. I have a case pending right now that SHOULD be charged as Brandishing at the MOST but my client's Crimson Trace laser activated through palm pressure when he drew his gun (under a legitimate belief he was about to be the victim of a drive-by shooting) and the "victim" was "traumatized" by the laser beam coming close to them, not even painting the target.

Lessons:

1. Never draw your weapon unless you are going to shoot.

2. Never fire a warning shot.

3. Leave the laser on your home-defense gun and NOT your carry gun!

I've lost two criminal trials in sixteen years of practice and both involved handguns with lasers being used as a method of "less-than-lethal" self-defense. In each case I obtained a self-defense jury instruction but I firmly believe that the witness testimony regarding lasers frightening them contributed to both convictions. There were other, unrelated reasons that the clients were found guilty but the lasers certainly didn't help.

NO WAY IN HELL WOULD I CARRY A GUN WITH A LASER ATTACHED.
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Nope
They’re good for learning trigger control, giving away your location & out of position shooting.
I have an IR laser mounted on a rifle to use with NV.
 
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Jmoser said:
And off we go !! I got most of the facts at least half right . . .

Michigan Gun Owners Community Forum

Gun Rights Activism Grass Roots
www.migunowners.org

An observation regarding lasers on firearms from a defense lawyer's perspective​

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To your point,
Uniquely CCH, if you draw and not shoot, how must of a threat is the assailant? Its not hard to argue not enough to shoot, because one did not shoot them. Then the next question is, ok then, why did you draw firearm?

Goes back to the stupid saying of racking a shotgun makes people run away. NOPE not true.
 
Murphy loves ”extras” especially electronic ones with batteries …


ETA … I still have not thought about a red dot or such sight for my EDC for the same reason … I love me some red dots on my SD carbines though 🤔. Guess I’m to old and set in my ways to fully embrace newer technology.
 
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A laser dot on your chest can make you reconsider what was on your mind moments before. The laser dot stopped the threat so there was no need to discharge the firearm. I'm no lawyer but I do shoot at Battery Oaks.
Found this article

www.policemag.com

Exclusive POLICE Survey: Weapon Lights, Optics, and Lasers

Officers say they are using a wide variety of tools to improve situational awareness and firearm accuracy.
www.policemag.com www.policemag.com
 
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Button Pusher said:
A laser dot on your chest can make you reconsider what was on your mind moments before. The laser dot stopped the threat so there was no need to discharge the firearm. I'm no lawyer but I do shoot at Battery Oaks.
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What are you gonna see first? A tiny red dot on your own chest from a laser pointer , or a big ass gun?
 
Notacop said:
What are you gonna see first? A tiny red dot on your own chest from a laser pointer , or a big ass gun?
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You will see the laser emission from the firearm as it is pointed in your direction.
 
JBoyette said:
To your point,
Uniquely CCH, if you draw and not shoot, how must of a threat is the assailant? Its not hard to argue not enough to shoot, because one did not shoot them. Then the next question is, ok then, why did you draw firearm?

Goes back to the stupid saying of racking a shotgun makes people run away. NOPE not true.
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Are you saying if you draw a CCH you must shoot it?
 
JBoyette said:
We can "what if" this to death.

Not playing.

If a person feels like their life is in immediate harm, stop the threat, not try to intimidate them.
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No, it wont take long. If by the time you draw your gun intending to shoot them, they have started turning and running, they are no longer an immediate threat. By drawing you have stopped the threat and you would be reasonable in drawing the gun and not firing. Certainly you wouldn't tell me I must shoot the guy in the back as he runs.

The "what ifs" matter.
 
I have CT grips on my EDC. I want to be able to focus my eyes on the threat, not a blackened front sight blade 30' in front of my face. In any light.

At a certain point of maturity, the ability of the eyes to shift focus from near to distant and back becomes impaired. Accept that and adapt or deny it and don't. Your life, your call.

That's a nice little pistol for those days you're not carrying a pistol. It's a keeper as is.
 
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@Jmoser can you supply the name of the attorney? I do not have an account to the forum you provided in the link.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
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A laser being the source of a charge in the state of NC is actually pretty irrelevant since there is simply a charge of assault by pointing a gun. Then you add in the fact that because it's a Misdemeanor a person can go to the magistrates office and take the charge out themselves. Then bam your in District court. So laser or not doesn't really matter in NC.
 
I may be very much in the minority here, but for me and EDC, I'll take fixed sights any day...........with lots and lots of practice. A laser doesn't do much of any good and no better unless trigger control and muscle memory are fully employed in the equation. If that laser fails to work and one has done their homework with the firearm they're familiar with, they'll hit anyway.
 
Lasers are illegal in some states. Generally states you probably don't want to visit like Illinois, but still good to know that you should check it out before you travel with that gun.
 
I personally have a few. Especially on smaller low capacity guns. If you only have 6 shots you really want them to be on target if you have to pull a trigger.
 
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Wow what a wide range of great info. I can see pros and cons for certain. I'm thinking it might be worth it but in some situations it could also be detrimental. Obviously there is no time to decide whether to use it or not depending on the situation, so it's all the time or nothing.

My finger blocks it until it's on the trigger, which might not be that big of an issue though. Still mulling this over. 🤔
 
frakncylons said:
Im not sure I follow…. Sights aren’t used for point shooting.
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My point was that you point shoot when you don’t have time for the sights. Such a short weapon is more difficult to point accurately without the sights, and the laser could help with that.
 
Cowboy said:
Kimber Micro 9 Woodland Night

MSRP:
$516.92
Used Price:
$1,359.20
New Price:
$410.25

Boy those are some odd numbers.

Kimber Micro 9 Woodland Night For Sale, Review, Price - $1,359.20 - In Stock

Find Gun Reviews and information regarding shooting sports. All firearm reviews and from actual shooters and enthusiasts. Start writing your gun reviews today!
www.guncritic.com www.guncritic.com
Click to expand...
That site is way off. Most places it's selling for >= $800, including gunbroker, Buds has it for $750. You can get the basic stainless model with rosewood grips for $200 less, which I'm kind of wishing I'd gone for instead. The models with colored slides are highly suceptable to scratching and I don't think they are stainless.
 
Flashpoint said:
That site is way off. Most places it's selling for >= $800, including gunbroker, Buds has it for $750. You can get the basic stainless model with rosewood grips for $200 less, which I'm kind of wishing I'd gone for instead. The models with colored slides are highly suceptable to scratching and I don't think they are stainless.
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Yeah and kimber's customer service Sucks. I had a solo the chunks of the (kimpro??) finish came off from pocket carry. I sent it back to them and all they would do is spray it. They wouldn't strip it first so while it had the color redone it still had pits.
 
I have had three lasers on three different pistols. I never could warm up to them. I gave one away and am not sure where the other two are. I suppose a mounted light/laser combination might be useful if I were to spend a lot of time in the woods in the dark.
 
Jmoser said:
From my days in MI:

Solid firearms defense atty recommended that you do NOT have laser on EDC. 2 clients were convicted after they drew and illuminated target but did NOT fire. Prosecutors claimed this was brandishing / menacing / assault [illuminees felt fear etc - legal assault threshold.]

At the time I sold 2 pairs of Crimson trace grips.

Irony is that an actual shooting may have been protected under MI self defense law - these folks were put in legal jeopardy since they did NOT shoot anyone.

Ill see if I can find the old thread from MGO forums - Jim Simmons was the atty. And as always states/counties differ and YMMV.

Disclaimer - I still have an M6 light/laser combo on my 'in the house' G20 and the 1911 laser camo grips that came OEM on my Kimber Custom Covert. Just not on EDC compact carry guns.
Click to expand...
I don't think the lasers were the issue there. More the fact that they drew and pointed, that was plenty for brandishing. If they had taken the laser off and just shined the light on people I doubt they'd been convicted of anything.
 
Seems like 2x as much stuff to train with then. Irons game and transition from one sighting system to another better be top notch when the laser doesn't activate / batteries are dead / gets blocked by your hand / can't see it in the light / etc.

Go to a match, see how many people fiddle fart around with their optics not working, might change your mind about electronics on little machines that get bounced around a lot.
 
When I took my AR Rifle 1 class at Frontline Defense, I was the only guy with iron sights, two guys had battery problems and a third had not checked his zero on the Eotech.
 
Button Pusher said:
When I took my AR Rifle 1 class at Frontline Defense, I was the only guy with iron sights, two guys had battery problems and a third had not checked his zero on the Eotech.
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I see what I mean..............................................................................................put me in the NAY column.🙋‍♀️
 
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