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Alex said:
Great ,i carry a g43 it’s as strictly self defense gun not a range toy or anything. Appreciate the help. Also I have another question if you don’t mind. Is subsonic ammo quieter if I don’t use a suppressor compared to SuperSonics ? Im already pretty deaf and I don’t want to make it worse if I have to use my gun again.
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To the shooter there won’t be much difference.
 
If you are talking purely about self defense, then with shorter barrels I would go with lighter rounds like 115 and 124. The heavier and slower 147's out of shorter barrels don't always expand reliably because of how low the velocity is. Just something to think about.
 
Alex said:
From the ballistic gel tests I’ve seen online, the 147 grain hsts seem to reliably expand out of short barrels ,I carry 115 critical defense just cause that is all I found locally, but I prefer the 147 hst compared to 124 cause of lower recoil and I have a lot faster up follow shots.
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Sounds good.
 
Alex said:
Thanks, 147 grain hsts are subsonic though right? I plan on using those with a suppressor in the future.
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In shorter barreled handguns many non +p 124gr ammo are under 1125 ft/sec cusp. Even older Gen 124gr Hydra-Shok is right on the cusp out of a G17 at 1115-1135 ft/sec but run that same round out of a PCC’s 16.5” barrel and they run 1225-1245 ft/sec. Ballistics by the Inch is a topic for both suppressor and long range applications … and a rabbit hole that is a fun one to go down!
 
RedFox099 said:
If you are talking purely about self defense, then with shorter barrels I would go with lighter rounds like 115 and 124. The heavier and slower 147's out of shorter barrels don't always expand reliably because of how low the velocity is. Just something to think about.
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Actually there is a lot of data to show heavier works better out of short barrels. Look at the line of ammo marketed by Federal as their “micro barrel” load. It’s a 150gr HST round.

My personal thoughts are that the difference between them is going to so insignificant, that I wouldn’t even be concerned with it. Get what you can get and practice to put your shots where they need to go.
 
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Derek8404 said:
Actually there is a lot of data to show heavier works better out of short barrels. Look at the line of ammo marketed by Federal as their “micro barrel” load. It’s a 150gr HST round.

My personal thoughts are that the difference between them is going to so insignificant, that I wouldn’t even be concerned with it. Get what you can get and practice to put your shots where they need to go.
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Paul Harrell tested those rounds and more with his meat target in this video and honestly the 150gr hst didn't seem all that impressive compaired to the other rounds.
 
I haven't tried any of the Lehigh factory loads, but I have been loading some of the ultimate defender projectiles in 9mm and so far they seem to have noticeably diminished recoil. The reports online seem to be very positive regarding these rounds in their effectiveness at stopping whatever they are shot into.

I'm still carrying HST, but I'm very likely to switch over. It's just that I have a pretty good stock of HST from the days when SGAMMO sold it for like thirty cents.
 
From experience, you shoot/train with the ballistic equivalent of the ammunition you carry.....
147 FMJ to replicate the recoil impulse of the 147 self defense load you'll carry daily. And if its the FMJ equivalent made by the same company that makes you self defense loads, all the better...
 
I’ve noticed quite large differences in poi between 115-147, with heavier bullets generally impacting higher.
 
Alex said:
What about the difference between 115 and 124. I recently switched to the 124 grain hsts but still only have 115 grain fmjs
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Not as much. But slow heavies can really hit high. I think it’s because the gun is actually moving up when they come out. Just my opinion .
 
Derek8404 said:
My personal thoughts are that the difference between them is going to so insignificant, that I wouldn’t even be concerned with it. Get what you can get and practice to put your shots where they need to go.
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This^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ and......................................................................................oh never mind................................................
 
Shoot SD rounds you actually use in practice. That you know the ballistics of. The recoil impulse. The overall shooting characteristics. If you train with one ammo and carry another, you're going to expect the results of the training ammo while not expecting the results of the SD ammo when it matters most.

At short range it realistically doesn't matter. But if you have to make a longer shot, it will. You have to decide how likely it is you'll be taking those longer shots, and how well you can adapt to quickly shooting rounds you don't practice with.
 
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Alex said:
I practice often with the round I’m carrying. But it gets expensive so I would rather not spend 70-80 bucks just to shoot 100 hollow points
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You definitely don't have to do it all the time. Just sometimes. Do it with the last mag as a finisher. And/or do 1-2 round training drills at the end of a string just to maintain proficiency. Think of it like sharpening a knife. The coarse grind is the cheap stuff. The fine edge is the actual SD ammo.

Or be like me (and very likely plenty of others on the forum) and just handload bullets of the same weight and relative velocity as your carry ammo on the cheap so you don't have to spend SD ammo prices on your training ammo for SD scenarios.
 
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Alex said:
I usually just shoot 200 rounds of fmj per shooting session and around 50 of my SD ammo.
I’m going to buy some 124 grain fmj once I get through the 115 fmjs I have stockpiled, since I recently switched back to 124 grain hsts.
I’m looking into learning how to reload but it just seems so difficult and risky to me.
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That works. It's probably more than most do. You may just be overthinking it at this point. I wouldn't worry about it so long as those round counts are going towards meaningful presentation and timed shot placement drills.

Makes sense to me. If 124gr is what you use for SD, I'd try to focus on 124gr FMJ training ammo so you're getting a roughly similar recoil impulse.

It's really not. Just pay attention to what you're doing and take your time. Listen to people with experience and watch lots of other people do it and it makes perfect sense. Work your loads up the way the book and basically everyone tells you to do and there's nothing to be afraid of.
 
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Under 21' the POI has never been a consideration for me. We shoot anything we have when we go to the range. The POI that would be affected by grain weight differences is rarely (if ever) a concern.
 
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