If you're ALREADY on the NFA radar...

Tim

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If you're ALREADY on the NFA radar, what's the argument AGAINST getting the 'free' pistol brace Tax Stamp?

I have several NFA stamps now, and 2 pistols that would qualify for the freebie. Why not go ahead and get them done?
 
My argument is, I do not want them classified as short barreled rifles. It limits the places they can go and also the ability to get rid of them later if I so decide. My issue is with them forcing the registration. I had an FFL and an SOT for many years. I have many NFA items, It isn’t about being on their radar. It is about forcing registration on people. The atf Investigator I spoke with said most likely there will be regulations on weight and length of pull for them being pistols. So some might be considered SBRs with a brace at all.
 
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1. Documenting yourself committing a felony and sending the evidence to the government is not a good idea, especially when you are in a persecuted conservative, gun owning minority.
2. The ATF can change their minds about the amnesty and revoke it at any time. Filing the Form 1 does not legally protect you.
3. The ATF can also change their minds about dropping the 200$ tax.
4. Registering guns is bad.
5. Using the free tax stamps looks like you are complying with yet another unconstitutional gun regulation. If these are added, and it works, people change or register guns, what will be defined as illegal next? The best thing gun owners can do is to ignore it. This is the main reason why I will not be SBRing anything even though I already have NFA.
6. You do lose the ability to sell the lower[EDIT: lower can be sold without even being removed from the registry, thanks @BigWaylon], take it across state lines without permission, conceal carry them in NC, move without informing the ATF, resale value goes to zero, etc.
7. If the courts strike this down on either 2A or Bruen grounds, or the NFA down, which is not impossible, you will have licked the boots and registered your guns with the federal government for no benefit at all. That is not what patriots do.
 
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Braces aren't tracked when sold and generally don't have serial numbers. As of right now nobody knows if I have a brace or not. If I perjure myself and send away for my free Little Orphan Annie Secret Decoder Ring, they will know I have a brace.
 
What I’m curious about is what happens to those people that are disapproved for any reason, after the 120 days have passed? You’ve admitted to a felony already. This isn’t permission to make an SBR, this is trying to register an existing one.
 
BigWaylon said:
What I’m curious about is what happens to those people that are disapproved for any reason, after the 120 days have passed? You’ve admitted to a felony already. This isn’t permission to make an SBR, this is trying to register an existing one.
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I have heard they will let you re-file. The investigator didn’t know if it would be for free or not. He specifically said that was just hearsay from higher ups. So don’t quote me on that.

Schattenreiter said:
I never worked for the ATF or owned any NFA items and I don't recall staying at a Holiday Inn Express but I can about guarantee that it the government is giving something for free it probably ain't free or else it ain't worth having cause they have alterior motives for giving it.
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I recall our government giving some Native Americans blankets in history books. I think it worked out okay for them 😕
 
Les White said:
Braces aren't tracked when sold and generally don't have serial numbers. As of right now nobody knows if I have a brace or not. If I perjure myself and send away for my free Little Orphan Annie Secret Decoder Ring, they will know I have a brace.
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Ding ding ding.

This is reason number one.

Reason no 2 is everyone that does this now is helping them build their registration.

What if they change their minds? Again
I also agree with most of the stuff in post 6.

They can suck my wiener, the snotty end
 
Fred said:
I know you can- but you have to submit something to the ATF to deregister it(and maybe wait to get something back from ATF? I haven't looked it up), and then find someone who wants to buy a lower with your engravings on it, which is a lot of work to sell a probably 40$ lower.
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Then don’t say you lose the ability to do it. 😉

You don’t have to send the ATF anything. Or wait for anything to come back. I can go take every single (AR)SBR out of my safe right now, and sell them to you as stripped lowers, complete lowers, or complete rifles with at least 16” barrels. No ATF/NFA involvement at all.


Does it impact resale value if you engraved the lower? Probably. But that has nothing to do with the legality of it.
 
charliedeltajuliet said:
I have heard they will let you re-file. The investigator didn’t know if it would be for free or not. He specifically said that was just hearsay from higher ups. So don’t quote me on that.


I recall our government giving some Native Americans blankets in history books. I think it worked out okay for them 😕
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Well I don't think they had to worry about the government after that If that is any consolation.
 
Dale Gribble said:
I believe one could still carry the rifle in their vehicle, concealed, so long as it is not "readily accessible" (trunk/cargo area/etc)
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But in that case mine would be an UNREGISTERED 16” modern sporting rifle. :)
 
Fred said:
And unloaded. An unloaded, slow to access gun isn't the same as an AR pistol between the passenger seat and center console.

I didn't know that. I'd read the process to "remove" it from the registery a long time ago but didn't know you could skip it. Interesting.
I bet it wouldn't go well if you sold me the lower without deregistering it, and then I tried to register it.
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They have said it’s nice to let them know if it has been transformed into a non-NFA and sold. But there is no legal requirement for do so. I can see where people get that impression from all the dang hoops you have to jump through just to get the dang thing in the first place.
 
Fred said:
And unloaded. An unloaded, slow to access gun isn't the same as an AR pistol between the passenger seat and center console.
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There’s zero difference in the NC statutes as it pertains to loaded/unloaded regarding concealing a firearm. Lots of people think there is, but I don’t believe it’s mentioned anywhere in there.
 
Fred said:
And unloaded. An unloaded, slow to access gun isn't the same as an AR pistol between the passenger seat and center console.
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True, but it is a rifle, in your vehicle, that you can put your hands on should you need it....beats a rifle at home that is locked behind a steel door.
 
Dale Gribble said:
True, but it is a rifle, in your vehicle, that you can put your hands on should you need it....beats a rifle at home that is locked behind a steel door.
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Yessireee bob. cat. tail!

And that will be the plan.
 
Would it not be a free way to get a "real" SBR? Do the free paperwork, get the free stamp, destroy/sell the brace, and put a stock on it?
 
Snal~ said:
Would it not be a free way to get a "real" SBR? Do the free paperwork, get the free stamp, destroy/sell the brace, and put a stock on it?
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But why does anyone even want one, other than to put a can on it?
 
Taking my own thread off topic…somebody show me the actual NC Statute that says a long gun or SBR needs to be inaccessible and unloaded in a vehicle. PROVIDED IT’S VISIBLE.
 
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Very interesting, This statute was just updated on Jan 1 of 2023.


SUBCHAPTER IX. OFFENSES AGAINST THE PUBLIC PEACE.

Article 35.

Offenses Against the Public Peace.

§ 14-269. Carrying concealed weapons. [Effective until January 1, 2023]

(a) It shall be unlawful for any person willfully and intentionally to carry concealed about his or her person any bowie knife, dirk, dagger, slung shot, loaded cane, metallic knuckles, razor, shuriken, stun gun, or other deadly weapon of like kind, except when the person is on the person's own premises.

(a1) It shall be unlawful for any person willfully and intentionally to carry concealed about his or her person any pistol or gun except in the following circumstances:

(1) The person is on the person's own premises.

(2) The deadly weapon is a handgun, the person has a concealed handgun permit issued in accordance with Article 54B of this Chapter or considered valid under G.S. 14-415.24, and the person is carrying the concealed handgun in accordance with the scope of the concealed handgun permit as set out in G.S. 14-415.11(c).

(3) The deadly weapon is a handgun and the person is a military permittee as defined under G.S. 14-415.10(2a) who provides to the law enforcement officer proof of deployment as required under G.S. 14-415.11(a).

(a2) This prohibition does not apply to a person who has a concealed handgun permit issued in accordance with Article 54B of this Chapter, has a concealed handgun permit considered valid under G.S. 14-415.24, or is exempt from obtaining a permit pursuant to G.S. 14-415.25, provided the weapon is a handgun, is in a closed compartment or container within the person's locked vehicle, and the vehicle is in a parking area that is owned or leased by State government. A person may unlock the vehicle to enter or exit the vehicle, provided the handgun remains in the closed compartment at all times and the vehicle is locked immediately following the entrance or exit.

(b) This prohibition shall not apply to the following persons:

(1) Officers and enlisted personnel of the Armed Forces of the United States when in discharge of their official duties as such and acting under orders requiring them to carry arms and weapons;

(2) Civil and law enforcement officers of the United States;

(3) Officers and soldiers of the militia and the National Guard when called into actual service;

(3a) A member of the North Carolina National Guard who has been designated in writing by the Adjutant General, State of North Carolina, who has a concealed handgun permit issued in accordance with Article 54B of this Chapter or considered valid under G.S. 14-415.24, and is acting in the discharge of his or her official duties, provided that the member does not carry a concealed weapon while consuming alcohol or an unlawful controlled substance or while alcohol or an unlawful controlled substance remains in the member's body.

(4) Officers of the State, or of any county, city, town, or company police agency charged with the execution of the laws of the State, when acting in the discharge of their official duties;

(4a) Any person who is a district attorney, an assistant district attorney, or an investigator employed by the office of a district attorney and who has a concealed handgun permit issued in accordance with Article 54B of this Chapter or considered valid under G.S. 14-415.24; provided that the person shall not carry a concealed weapon at any time while in a courtroom or while consuming alcohol or an unlawful controlled substance or while alcohol or an unlawful controlled substance remains in the person's body. The district attorney, assistant district attorney, or investigator shall secure the weapon in a locked compartment when the weapon is not on the person of the district attorney, assistant district attorney, or investigator. Notwithstanding the provisions of this subsection, a district attorney may carry a concealed weapon while in a courtroom;

(4b) Any person who is a qualified retired law enforcement officer as defined in G.S. 14-415.10 and meets any one of the following conditions:

a. Is the holder of a concealed handgun permit in accordance with Article 54B of this Chapter.

b. Is exempt from obtaining a permit pursuant to G.S. 14-415.25.

c. Is certified by the North Carolina Criminal Justice Education and Training Standards Commission pursuant to G.S. 14-415.26;

(4c) Detention personnel or correctional officers employed by the State or a unit of local government who park a vehicle in a space that is authorized for their use in the course of their duties may transport a firearm to the parking space and store that firearm in the vehicle parked in the parking space, provided that: (i) the firearm is in a closed compartment or container within the locked vehicle, or (ii) the firearm is in a locked container securely affixed to the vehicle;

(4d) Any person who is a North Carolina district court judge, North Carolina superior court judge, or a North Carolina magistrate and who has a concealed handgun permit issued in accordance with Article 54B of this Chapter or considered valid under G.S. 14-415.24; provided that the person shall not carry a concealed weapon at any time while consuming alcohol or an unlawful controlled substance or while alcohol or an unlawful controlled substance remains in the person's body. The judge or magistrate shall secure the weapon in a locked compartment when the weapon is not on the person of the judge or magistrate;

(4e) Any person who is serving as a clerk of court or as a register of deeds and who has a concealed handgun permit issued in accordance with Article 54B of this Chapter or considered valid under G.S. 14-415.24; provided that the person shall not carry a concealed weapon at any time while consuming alcohol or an unlawful controlled substance or while alcohol or an unlawful controlled substance remains in the person's body. The clerk of court or register of deeds shall secure the weapon in a locked compartment when the weapon is not on the person of the clerk of court or register of deeds. This subdivision does not apply to assistants, deputies, or other employees of the clerk of court or register of deeds;

(5) Sworn law-enforcement officers, when off-duty, provided that an officer does not carry a concealed weapon while consuming alcohol or an unlawful controlled substance or while alcohol or an unlawful controlled substance remains in the officer's body;

(6) State probation or parole certified officers, when off-duty, provided that an officer does not carry a concealed weapon while consuming alcohol or an unlawful controlled substance or while alcohol or an unlawful controlled substance remains in the officer's body.

(7) A person employed by the Department of Public Safety who has been designated in writing by the Secretary of the Department, who has a concealed handgun permit issued in accordance with Article 54B of this Chapter or considered valid under G.S. 14-415.24, and has in the person's possession written proof of the designation by the Secretary of the Department, provided that the person shall not carry a concealed weapon at any time while consuming alcohol or an unlawful controlled substance or while alcohol or an unlawful controlled substance remains in the person's body.

(8) Any person who is an administrative law judge described in Article 60 of Chapter 7A of the General Statutes and who has a concealed handgun permit issued in accordance with Article 54B of this Chapter or considered valid under G.S. 14-415.24, provided that the person shall not carry a concealed weapon at any time while consuming alcohol or an unlawful controlled substance or while alcohol or an unlawful controlled substance remains in the person's body.

(9) State correctional officers, when off-duty, provided that an officer does not carry a concealed weapon while consuming alcohol or an unlawful controlled substance or while alcohol or an unlawful controlled substance remains in the officer's body. If the concealed weapon is a handgun, the correctional officer must meet the firearms training standards of the Division of Adult Correction and Juvenile Justice of the Department of Public Safety.

(b1) It is a defense to a prosecution under this section that:

(1) The weapon was not a firearm;

(2) The defendant was engaged in, or on the way to or from, an activity in which the defendant legitimately used the weapon;

(3) The defendant possessed the weapon for that legitimate use; and

(4) The defendant did not use or attempt to use the weapon for an illegal purpose.

The burden of proving this defense is on the defendant.

(b2) It is a defense to a prosecution under this section that:

(1) The deadly weapon is a handgun;

(2) The defendant is a military permittee as defined under G.S. 14-415.10(2a); and

(3) The defendant provides to the court proof of deployment as defined under G.S. 14-415.10(3a).

(c) Any person violating the provisions of subsection (a) of this section shall be guilty of a Class 2 misdemeanor. Any person violating the provisions of subsection (a1) of this section shall be guilty of a Class 2 misdemeanor for the first offense and a Class H felony for a second or subsequent offense. A violation of subsection (a1) of this section punishable under G.S. 14-415.21(a) is not punishable under this section.

(d) This section does not apply to an ordinary pocket knife carried in a closed position. As used in this section, "ordinary pocket knife" means a small knife, designed for carrying in a pocket or purse, that has its cutting edge and point entirely enclosed by its handle, and that may not be opened by a throwing, explosive, or spring action. (Code, s. 1005; Rev., s. 3708; 1917, c. 76; 1919, c. 197, s. 8; C.S., s. 4410; 1923, c. 57; Ex. Sess. 1924, c. 30; 1929, cc. 51, 224; 1947, c. 459; 1949, c. 1217; 1959, c. 1073, s. 1; 1965, c. 954, s. 1; 1969, c. 1224, s. 7; 1977, c. 616; 1981, c. 412, s. 4; c. 747, s. 66; 1983, c. 86; 1985, c. 432, ss. 1-3; 1993, c. 539, s. 163; 1994, Ex. Sess., c. 24, s. 14(c); 1995, c. 398, s. 2; 1997-238, s. 1; 2003-199, s. 2; 2005-232, ss. 4, 5; 2005-337, s. 1; 2006-259, s. 5(a); 2009-281, s. 1; 2011-183, s. 127(a); 2011-243, s. 1; 2011-268, s. 3; 2013-369, ss. 1, 21, 25; 2014-119, s. 12(a); 2015-5, s. 1; 2015-195, s. 1(a); 2015-215, s. 2.5; 2015-264, s. 3; 2017-186, s. 2(hh).
 
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Tim said:
If you're ALREADY on the NFA radar, what's the argument AGAINST getting the 'free' pistol brace Tax Stamp?

I have several NFA stamps now, and 2 pistols that would qualify for the freebie. Why not go ahead and get them done?
Click to expand...

I would go the traditional route vs the freebie. To me, the traditional route says you are making an SBR vs trying to make an illegal one legal via the amnesty. At least, that is my train of thought for the two I’m thinking about submitting.
 
Tim said:
Taking my own thread off topic…somebody show me the actual NC Statute that says a long gun or SBR needs to be inaccessible and unloaded in a vehicle. PROVIDED IT’S VISIBLE.
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I’m not sure how it can be visible and inaccessible, even in my super cab truck.
 
Tim said:
Taking my own thread off topic…somebody show me the actual NC Statute that says a long gun or SBR needs to be inaccessible and unloaded in a vehicle. PROVIDED IT’S VISIBLE.
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Bocephus said:
I would go the traditional route vs the freebie. To me, the traditional route says you are making an SBR vs trying to make an illegal one legal via the amnesty. At least, that is my train of thought for the two I’m thinking about submitting.
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But the traditional way has you paying $200 for a rule they decided to change.
 
Tim said:
Taking my own thread off topic…somebody show me the actual NC Statute that says a long gun or SBR needs to be inaccessible and unloaded in a vehicle. PROVIDED IT’S VISIBLE.
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Does not matter if it is loaded or unloaded, nor does it matter if it is a NFA item so long as you are not crossing state lines unless you have an approved form 5320.20. The only requirement is that it must be in plain view upon approach of the officer.
 
So, upthread there was discussion about once a pistol becomes an SBR it would need to go in the trunk or otherwise be inaccessible. That’s just not true. It can no longer be CONCEALED, as you could with a pistol, but it could still be handy in case of need.
 
Gray said:
If I want an SBR I’ll file and pay the stamp. Not going to get in the van for free candy.
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This is the direction I’m going. $400 (2 stamps) is cheap enough in my book to avoid the potential traps of the freebie. And, since I’m already on ‘the list’ for other NFA items, I’m not further damaging any privacy I may still have.
 
Tim said:
So, upthread there was discussion about once a pistol becomes an SBR it would need to go in the trunk or otherwise be inaccessible. That’s just not true. It can no longer be CONCEALED, as you could with a pistol, but it could still be handy in case of need.
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But unless you are putting a can on it, what’s the point of having an SBR you have to openly display (and register). I’d just asoon put a 16” AR in the front seat that I don’t have to register.
 
Currently, I am not on the NFA radar. I have a pistol that is one of the ones on their current target list, and it was sold as a pistol but not a braced pistol. I may or may not have a brace for it, but it’s never had a brace on it. I can carry it concealed and cross state lines.

I am seriously thinking about getting a suppressor for it, which would put me in the NFA radar, but not as having made an (illegal) SBR.

I don’t imagine it being to hard to slap a brace on it should I need to and quite frankly, if I need to use that degree of firepower, the stupid brace or not or even if I were to shoulder it should it have one is insignificant compared to whatever event caused me to need to use it.
 
fieldgrade said:
But unless you are putting a can on it, what’s the point of having an SBR you have to openly display (and register). I’d just asoon put a 16” AR in the front seat that I don’t have to register.
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shorter guns are much easier to maneuver inside a vehicle.
 
Bigdave0924 said:
shorter guns are much easier to maneuver inside a vehicle.
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You ever shot a pistol from inside a vehicle? Shooting an SBR from inside a vehicle would be terrible, and with a can it’s not much shorter.
 
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