Who's ready for WW3?

Flashpoint

Flashpoint

Smile, wait for flash
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Any parties planned? ;)

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When we moved that missle ship close by I figured that was a diversion and the attack if there is one would come from somewhere else, but I think Trump might just be ready for an "in your face" move after they boasted they would shoot down all our missiles and the platforms that launched them. Hopefully he's playing poker, it's worked so far with NK and China appears to be backtracking some.
 
I heard some commentary on the radio this morning that the current setup in Syria is much like the world setup in 1913 in that pacts of allies caused a small event to turn into a conflagration of major war.
 
drypowder said:
Someone remind me why Assad is a threat to the American citizenry, thus justifying our repeated attacks of Syria?

For sure, he is a threat to all the jihadists in Syria, but that's not Americans' problem.
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It's a sticky wicket, for sure. The US isn't anti-Assad, but anti-ISIS. But Assad keeps getting in the way. I think if it wasn't for ISIS, we'd be out.

I did not know this until recently: there are around 60 countries fighting in/around Syria.
 
gc70 said:
Part of me wishes every cruise missile launched at Syria would be taken out.
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Indeed.

And seeing America's aggression in the Middle East, I cannot fault Iran for wanting nukes. It's obvious that after Iraq, Libya, and now Syria, that Iran is next on the Israel/US hitlist.
 
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Chuckman said:
It's a sticky wicket, for sure. The US isn't anti-Assad, but anti-ISIS. But Assad keeps getting in the way. I think if it wasn't for ISIS, we'd be out.
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The US is clearly anti-Assad. Our policy has been "Assad must go" for many years now.

I'd say it's very questionable whether US is anti-ISIS. It was under US watch over Iraq that ISIS was born and grew in strength. While the US controlled Iraqi airspace, ISIS swarmed from city to city in Iraq, and moved into Syria. We've seen pictures of those long ISIS caravans traveling over miles of exposed desert highways. You travel like that only when you know the people controlling the skies aren't going to wipe you out.

We know that the jihadists we've been arming have either handed those weapons over to ISIS or the jihadists themselves have defected to ISIS with those weapons.

I'd say Assad, Iran and Russia are anti-ISIS, and we see this in their actions. America (and Israel) have a much more ambiguous relationship with ISIS.

Chuckman said:
I think if it wasn't for ISIS, we'd be out.
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If we got out, there's no question that Assad/Iran/Russia would exterminate ISIS with extreme prejudice. But America constantly intervenes and prevents this.

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drypowder said:
The US is clearly anti-Assad. Our policy has been "Assad must go" for many years now.

I'd say it's very questionable whether US is anti-ISIS. It was under US watch over Iraq that ISIS was born and grew in strength. While the US controlled Iraqi airspace, ISIS swarmed from city to city in Iraq, and moved into Syria. We've seen pictures of those long ISIS caravans traveling over miles of exposed desert highways. You travel like that only when you know the people controlling the skies aren't going to wipe you out.

We know that the jihadists we've been arming have either handed those weapons over to ISIS or the jihadists themselves have defected to ISIS with those weapons.

I'd say Assad, Iran and Russia are anti-ISIS, and we see this in their actions. America (and Israel) have a much more ambiguous relationship with ISIS.
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We used to be much more anti-Assad than we are now. I think deposing Assad has turned into a secondary goal; Trump has said as much. To Russia's delight we have stopped arming and training anti-Assad forces. I think we've given up on trying to oust Assad.
 
Chuckman said:
It's a sticky wicket, for sure. The US isn't anti-Assad, but anti-ISIS. But Assad keeps getting in the way. I think if it wasn't for ISIS, we'd be out.

I did not know this until recently: there are around 60 countries fighting in/around Syria.
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Assad is also fighting ISIS.
 
Chuckman said:
We used to be much more anti-Assad than we are now. I think deposing Assad has turned into a secondary goal; Trump has said as much.
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For sure, Trump's instincts are not inline with Bush or Obama. If it were purely up to him, he'd have us totally out of Syria. But the deep state will not permit this.

Chuckman said:
To Russia's delight we have stopped arming and training anti-Assad forces. I think we've given up on trying to oust Assad.
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Except we're still there. What do you think we're doing there?

I think Trump doesn't want to oust Assad. But the neocons in the US government haven't given up on this. At the very least, they want to prevent Assad from regaining control of all of Syria. So we continue to launch strikes against the Syrian army whenever they are about to deliver a crushing blow to jihadists.
 
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Chuckman said:
We used to be much more anti-Assad than we are now. I think deposing Assad has turned into a secondary goal; Trump has said as much. To Russia's delight we have stopped arming and training anti-Assad forces. I think we've given up on trying to oust Assad.
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The neo-cons and assorted war-hawks of both parties have never stopped pushing to oust Assad. Trump ignored them for a while and even announced plans to leave Syria before the most recent jihadi claims of gas attacks by the Syrian government. It is a shame the war-boosters can so easily manipulate Trump on the topic of gas attacks by suggesting he can act stronger than Obama did.
 
drypowder said:
For sure, Trump's instincts are not inline with Bush or Obama. If it were purely up to him, he'd have us totally out of Syria. But the deep state will not permit this.

Except we're still there. What do you think we're doing there?

I think Trump doesn't want to oust Assad. But the neocons in the US government haven't given up on this. At the very least, they want to prevent Assad from regaining control of all of Syria. So we continue to launch strikes against the Syrian army whenever they are about to deliver a crushing blow to jihadists.
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I largely agree. I think if it was 'just about ISIS' there are other ways. I also think Trump would have us totally out of that pit.

Assad is definitely a shithead of the highest order. I'd like to see him gone. I agree; his civil war ain't our civil war.
 
gc70 said:
The neo-cons and assorted war-hawks of both parties have never stopped pushing to oust Assad. Trump ignored them for a while and even announced plans to leave Syria before the most recent jihadi claims of gas attacks by the Syrian government. It is a shame the war-boosters can so easily manipulate Trump on the topic of gas attacks by suggesting he can act stronger than Obama did.
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I think even the Assad-must-go people sees the difference between saying "Assad must go" and actively pursuing his regime's demise. We have cut funding, training, and weapons to post of the anti-Assad groups, and that wasn't all by Trump's decision. It's a losing proposition for the US and it has turned into a modern version of Cuba, claiming "Fidel must go" while really not being able to do anything about it.

Regarding the gassing...I am not sure where I stand on what we do about that. A big part of me is OK with leveling Damascus and blowing the shit out of every Syrian aircraft for doing it. I don't know.
 
Chuckman said:
Assad is definitely a shithead of the highest order. I'd like to see him gone.
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Why?

Saddam Hussein was also a shithead. But he ran a secular government that made no allowance for jihadis. Getting rid of Hussein was the best thing for Islamic fundamentalism.

Similar story for Muammar Gaddafi.

Assad is no saint, but he ran a secular Syria. Getting rid of him will ensure that all or part of the country formerly known as Syria will be run by Islamic fundamentalists and be a hotbed of jihadist training.
 
I think this is all fluff and posturing just like everything else has been. Two months ago we were on the brink of war with the Norks. Now for sure it’s Syria. C’mon, take a deep breath.
 
And in between we have been on the verge of every highschool in the US being assaulted by evil republican NRA members with Assault Full Semi Automatics, past hookers who boinked the president, Facebook being the root of all evil, and Illegal attornys office raids...

Bread and circuses.
 
drypowder said:
Why?

Saddam Hussein was also a shithead. But he ran a secular government that made no allowance for jihadis. Getting rid of Hussein was the best thing for Islamic fundamentalism.

Similar story for Muammar Gaddafi.

Assad is no saint, but he ran a secular Syria. Getting rid of him will ensure that all or part of the country formerly known as Syria will be run by Islamic fundamentalists and be a hotbed of jihadist training.
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Why? For the same reason I thought Hitler was a shithead, Amin was a shithead (but he gets bonus points for cannibalism), Hussein was a shithead. Booger eaters are bad.
 
11B CIB said:
I think this is all fluff and posturing just like everything else has been. Two months ago we were on the brink of war with the Norks. Now for sure it’s Syria. C’mon, take a deep breath.
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Yup. Leaders doing their thing, gotta be blustery.
 
Chuckman said:
Regarding the gassing...I am not sure where I stand on what we do about that. A big part of me is OK with leveling Damascus and blowing the shit out of every Syrian aircraft for doing it. I don't know.
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I am very sure where I stand on the use of poison gas - any government that uses it should be crushed. But I am far from sure that Assad's government has used poison gas.

The claims of gas attacks seem to conveniently arise when Assad is winning and the jihadis are losing. And I strongly suspect that the US intelligence community has the capability to provide absolute proof (satellite or radar tracking of aircraft or artillery) if the Assad government was actually responsible for gas attacks.

Chuckman said:
I think even the Assad-must-go people sees the difference between saying "Assad must go" and actively pursuing his regime's demise. We have cut funding, training, and weapons to post of the anti-Assad groups, and that wasn't all by Trump's decision. It's a losing proposition for the US and it has turned into a modern version of Cuba, claiming "Fidel must go" while really not being able to do anything about it.
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I suspect the Assad-must-go people are from the same anti-Russian cabal that has waged wars of subversion against former Soveit-allied countries since the end of the Cold War and the dissolution of the Soviet Union. They have been relentless -and nearly totally successful- in trying to bring down Russia's allies for three decades; why would they stop now?
 
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Chuckman said:
Why? For the same reason I thought Hitler was a shithead, Amin was a shithead (but he gets bonus points for cannibalism), Hussein was a shithead. Booger eaters are bad.
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There are a lot of shitheads, including in our own government. Getting rid of them all would outstrip our wealth and our manpower. And for every shithead you replace, you risk an even bigger shithead(s) taking its place, which is what has happened in Iraq, Libya and is now happening in Syria.

I think we ought to focus on the shitheads who are a real threat to the American citizenry.
 
drypowder said:
Someone remind me why Assad is a threat to the American citizenry, thus justifying our repeated attacks of Syria?

For sure, he is a threat to all the jihadists in Syria, but that's not Americans' problem.
Click to expand...
I still think it's tied to the Petrodollar because Syria is one of the few countries that trades oil for other currencies than the US dollar. The fact that it is used for oil means other countries need to posses dollars which artificially inflates their value. If the world stops trading oil in dollars, the dollar value plummets; along with much neocon wealth. This is also the basis of the Assad Must Go - because he is trading in other than dollars, which is backed by Russia, Iran, and China. The other countries you mentioned, such as Lybia were attacked by the US after they started trading oil in other currencies.
 
noway2 said:
I still think it's tied to the Petrodollar because Syria is one of the few countries that trades oil for other currencies than the US dollar. The fact that it is used for oil means other countries need to posses dollars which artificially inflates their value. If the world stops trading oil in dollars, the dollar value plummets; along with much neocon wealth. This is also the basis of the Assad Must Go - because he is trading in other than dollars, which is backed by Russia, Iran, and China. The other countries you mentioned, such as Lybia were attacked by the US after they started trading oil in other currencies.
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That is part of it, but not all of it. After all, China now trades oil in renminbi and we aren't going to do anything militarily there.

Also, Syria is tiny with regards to oil production. As of 2016, they ranked 59, behind countries such as Italy, Bolivia, Cuba, and Germany. In other words, they are immaterial to global oil production. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_oil_production

Get AIPAC to register as the foreign agent that it is, and American politics, including our Middle East meddling, will change quite a lot.
 
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drypowder said:
There are a lot of shitheads, including in our own government. Getting rid of them all would outstrip our wealth and our manpower. And for every shithead you replace, you risk an even bigger shithead(s) taking its place, which is what has happened in Iraq, Libya and is now happening in Syria.

I think we ought to focus on the shitheads who are a real threat to the American citizenry.
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Please don't mistake my utter disgust at shitheads (of all varieties) as being a proponent of regime change. Unless under specific conditions (e.g., WWII), I am not.

@noway2 , re: Libya, Libya was protecting and training terrorists. Not saying that US intervention wasn't also because of the oil/currency, but am saying there was far more to it than just the oil/currency.
 
Chuckman said:
@noway2 , re: Libya, Libya was protecting and training terrorists. Not saying that US intervention wasn't also because of the oil/currency, but am saying there was far more to it than just the oil/currency.
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Where did you get the idea that the intervention in Libya involved protecting and training terrorists?

Gaddafi had sworn off supporting terrorists and pursuing nuclear weapons after he saw Saddam Hussein's fate. The UN and NATO ostensibly attacked the Libyan government to prevent civilian casualties as rebels fought to overthrow the government (in short, helping the rebels overthrow the government).
 
gc70 said:
Where did you get the idea that the intervention in Libya involved protecting and training terrorists?

Gaddafi had sworn off supporting terrorists and pursuing nuclear weapons after he saw Saddam Hussein's fate. The UN and NATO ostensibly attacked the Libyan government to prevent civilian casualties as rebels fought to overthrow the government (in short, helping the rebels overthrow the government).
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I was saying Libya generally: LIFG, the Pan Am bombing, etc.
 
drypowder said:
And Israel, which is the key to all of America's Middle East meddling.
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Spoken like a libertarian you tell em! Lol Israel is our biggest Ally and deserves our support and if anyone believes terrorists would lay down their weapons if we didn't "meddle" is mistaken. That being said if Syria stops breeding terrorists aimed at us or an ally let em alone...
 
RedneckFur said:
If it doesn't happen in the US, its not our problem. Our involvement in Europe's wars is what has got us in this sad situation we're in today.

The founding fathers warned us of the danger, but we didn't listen.
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Uh Germany and Japan got us involved if that's what you're referring to.
 
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Scari said:
Lol Israel is our biggest Ally
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For sure we are Israel's strongest ally. That doesn't make Israel our ally.

Scari said:
and deserves our support
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Cut out America as the middleman. If you want to join the IDF, go for it. Send your children to die for Israel. Stop asking Americans to do it and for American taxpayers to finance this.

Scari said:
and if anyone believes terrorists would lay down their weapons if we didn't "meddle" is mistaken.
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You mean lay down weapons like the American made TOW antitank missiles that we are giving them?
 
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Scari said:
Uh Germany and Japan got us involved if that's what you're referring to.
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Much like Germany in WW1, trying to start mess between us and Mexico.
We were pulled into both, officially, after staying out of it for years.

I hope that WW3 never happens. Time will tell.
 
https://www.rt.com/politics/423726-russia-syria-military-response/

The head of the Duma defense committee and former commander of Russian airborne troops has said Moscow would take all measures, including military ones, in response to a possible US strike on government forces in Syria.
“The double standard policy has overstepped all possible boundaries. At this point, the [pro-Putin parliamentary majority] United Russia party must responsibly state that we are going to take all political and diplomatic measures, and also military measures if such need arises,” Vladimir Shamanov said on Tuesday before the State Duma plenary session. “Not a single unlawful action will be left without response,” he added.
 
I don't see any reason Assad would have to gas those people when Trump just said, we are going to pullout . The Luciferian deep state , powers that be , ect. , ect. They want a big war now . Trump is closing in on all the Human Trafficking , child rape, Treason, ect. , so if we go to war, chances are all this will be put on hold , or forgotten if we have nukes hit us. Some may hate Trump , but I think he's trying to bring these monsters to justice , the Lord can and has used a lot worse people than Trump . Most people don't believe or think that we have powerful people that want war to bring in the new world order , order out of chaos, our country & people like you on this Forum are the only thing keeping them at bay right now. They want to take our guns so they can do as they please , they teach & use our kids at school , bus them to D.C. to protest & march for their own future enslavement, Everyone in Washington is against Trump , he must be doing something right, we can only hope that he & Putin understand each other very well , the same bankers financed both sides in every war fought in the 20th century. Anyway , like the last time , i'm not convinced Assad ordered this gas attack , only those that want us to stay in Syria & escalate things with Russia would have anything to gain , even if Putin understands what the true agenda is with these monsters , he must show strength in order to keep in power .
 
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