Interesting experience with dry lube on a pistol

Scsmith42

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A gunsmith that I know and respect recommended that I try a dry-type lube on my EDC instead of oil/grease combination, so earlier today I tried some LPS Dry Film silicone lubricant on my Walther PPQ 9mm.

I was really surprised to experience a significant change in the POI after using the LPS on the pistol. Shooting at a steel plate rack 25 yards away my rounds were consistently missing the plates. So I moved over to a standard sized IPSC silhouette target and aimed center mass from 25 yards (red dot on the target). All of the impacts were at 6 - 7 o'clock about 7 - 12" away from point of aim (inside the blue circle on the photo).

I then reapplied some gun oil to the pistol (w/o removing the dry lube), and shot the second group (inside the green circle). Same point of aim for both but around a 12" difference in point of impact.

This really surprised me, as I did not realize that the type of lube would make such a significant difference in the POI.


Dry lube targetC.jpg
 
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None into the eyes - LOL!
Thanks for the offer; I’ll check to see if anybody local stocks it and if not will take you p on your offer.
I couldn't find it locally. My hands rust bluing, I bought a Citori and researched rust protection, it's the best thing I found.
 
Eezox is good stuff but it sure does stink.

Used to be a business here that carried Eezox but that place is no longer open. They had it in aerosol cans and plastic bottles.

Always easier to hit the sweet spot with a wet lube. :rolleyes:
 
The lube must be affecting the locking/unlocking sequence or timing thereof, hence the different points of impact. That's all I got...
I was going to say the same thing.

On my PPQ 147 gr would consistently hit higher than any lighter load. Reason we think is the barrel was starting to tilt before the slower bullet left the barrel.

Seems like your lube is altering the timing in something like an opposite way.

The PPQ was designed around a very fast slide movement, so timing is pretty critical.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk
 
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A gunsmith that I know and respect recommended that I try a dry-type lube on my EDC instead of oil/grease combination, so earlier today I tried some LPS Dry Film silicone lubricant on my Walther PPQ 9mm.

I was really surprised to experience a significant change in the POI after using the LPS on the pistol. Shooting at a steel plate rack 25 yards away my rounds were consistently missing the plates. So I moved over to a standard sized IPSC silhouette target and aimed center mass from 25 yards (red dot on the target). All of the impacts were at 6 - 7 o'clock about 7 - 12" away from point of aim (inside the blue circle on the photo).

I then reapplied some gun oil to the pistol (w/o removing the dry lube), and shot the second group (inside the green circle). Same point of aim for both but around a 12" difference in point of impact.

This really surprised me, as I did not realize that the type of lube would make such a significant difference in the POI.


View attachment 64225


I thought you were going to say the barrel shot off the gun and embedded itself in this steel target.
 
Just thinking out loud:

Thick lube actually moving to bottom of hot barrel and pooling under the bushing/lock up area at muzzle, causing barrel to ride over it and upwards slightly.

Thats all I got. I imagine effect would be less with a very tight bushing and/or very tight gun.

Edit: same ammo right?
 
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Just thinking out loud:

Thick lube actually moving to bottom of hot barrel and pooling under the bushing/lock up area at muzzle, causing barrel to ride over it and upwards slightly.

Thats all I got. I imagine effect would be less with a very tight bushing and/or very tight gun.

Edit: same ammo right?

Yup, same ammo. AND I ran this same ammo through my PPQ Q5 with no changes in POI (and no changes in lube either - just Weapons Shield).
 
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The dry lube has a different friction value than the oil. My guess is the oil is "more slick" than the dry lube.... The dry lube could be increasing sliding friction enough to change the recoil impulse, thus changing the impact. (??)
 
How you holding your mouth when it shoots high??? Not standing on your tippy toes are you??

Nah, I'm shooting "Super Modified Gangsta style", holding the pistol sideways and pushing it away from me to propel the bullets more quickly towards their target while I pull the trigger. With my other hand I'm grabbing my package.....

Similar to this....

 
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You sure that you didn’t just hang the targets higher?

How about this.
The slide is moving as soon as the bullet fires.
With oil the slide accelerates slightly faster, so the barrel has been pulled down just a fraction of a hair before the bullet exits the barrel, causing it to strike high.
With dry lube the bullet exits before the barrel is pulled down at all so it strikes low.

Want to try something fun?
Aim and fire while preventing the slide from moving, where is the POI vs POA?
 
The slide cycles completely in about 6/1000th of a second. The bullet is already long gone by the time the slide returns into battery.
 
Slower bullet print higher because the gun is recoiling while they are still leaving barrel:

True or false?
 
The slide cycles completely in about 6/1000th of a second. The bullet is already long gone by the time the slide returns into battery.

Dbl check that, I think maybe 6/100th of a second for the slide to cycle.

Obviously the bullet is gone by the time the slide returns to battery, I’m talking about how the slide and barrel move in the 3 or 4 10,000ths of a second before the bullet exits the barrel. Of course my guess is just that. The dry lube could be faster than the oil, or they could be close enough that it doesn’t matter. Just something that might be interesting to test.
 
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Nah, I'm shooting "Super Modified Gangsta style", holding the pistol sideways and pushing it away from me to propel the bullets more quickly towards their target while I pull the trigger. With my other hand I'm grabbing my package.....

Similar to this....


Maybe there's hope for me yet. o_O
 
Dbl check that, I think maybe 6/100th of a second for the slide to cycle.

Obviously the bullet is gone by the time the slide returns to battery, I’m talking about how the slide and barrel move in the 3 or 4 10,000ths of a second before the bullet exits the barrel. Of course my guess is just that. The dry lube could be faster than the oil, or they could be close enough that it doesn’t matter. Just something that might be interesting to test.


In this video, there is alot going on in just over 3/4 of a second... ( .75/100ths )



Sub 1 sec shot from a draw at 10 yards on an 8"plate... ( .87 sec = 87/100ths )


The slide is moving alot faster than you think. The bullet strikes the plate just before the slide returns into battery.
 
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In this video, there is alot going on in just over 3/4 of a second... ( .75/100ths )

Sub 1 sec shot from a draw at 10 yards on an 8"plate... ( .87 sec = 87/100ths )

The slide is moving alot faster than you think. The bullet strikes the plate just before the slide returns into battery.

Try this as a reasonableness test.
6 thousandths of a second is .006 sec
1 round per .006 sec = 1000 rounds per 6 seconds
1000 rounds per 6 seconds = 10,000 rounds per min

Ever hear of a single barreled gun with a cyclic rate of 10,000 rounds per min?

Glock 18 is spec’d at 1,200 rounds per min.
 
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Try this as a reasonableness test.
6 thousandths of a second is .006 sec
1 round per .006 sec = 1000 rounds per 6 seconds
1000 rounds per 6 seconds = 10,000 rounds per min

Ever hear of a single barreled gun with a cyclic rate of 10,000 rounds per min?

Glock 18 is spec’d at 1,200 rounds per min.


Lets just gather our gear up and shoot and figure it out... Anything else is just benchtalk.
We can set up steel, a chrono, and plenty of zeroing targets and IPSC targets and have a great R&D session!!
 
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My gear is ready! Are you free this Friday, Sat, or Sunday? Range is about 1 hour from Waxhaw...

We can take pics and videos of our testing and post them up here next week!!
 
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On my MP5 the cyclic rate is around 750 rounds per minute. That equates to 12.5 rounds per second, or .08 second for each cycle of the bolt. That’s with a delayed roller blowback system.

In contrast, a Mac 11 (aka the bullet hose) has a cyclic rate of around 1200 round per minute, which equals 20 rounds per second or .05 for each cycle of the bolt. That’s with an open bolt SMG,

Somehow I don’t think that the .006 estimate above is accurate. That’s 13X faster than the MP5 and 8X faster than a Mac 11.
 
My gear is ready! Are you free this Friday, Sat, or Sunday? Range is about 1 hour from Waxhaw...

We can take pics and videos of our testing and post them up here next week!!

Too bad y’all aren’t closer. I’d offer to host your R&D session at my range here on the farm.
 
Jeppo to the rescue once again!

I see a continual pattern of sage advice and wisdom from Jeppo. :)
And I sense a wee bit of sarcasm.

I've found eliminating lube makes gun cleaning so much simpler while extending the intervals between cleanings. The total savings between lube and patches allows me to shoot several more rounds each year.

Take that! :cool:
 
Nope...no sarcasm on my part.

Lots of knowledge in your replies...and humor of course.
 
All seriousness aside, I've found this thread extremely helpful. I now realize I've been doing the super modified gangsta for years but, all wrong.

Who knew you could do it with a gun in your other hand? :confused:
 
On my MP5 the cyclic rate is around 750 rounds per minute. That equates to 12.5 rounds per second, or .08 second for each cycle of the bolt. That’s with a delayed roller blowback system.

In contrast, a Mac 11 (aka the bullet hose) has a cyclic rate of around 1200 round per minute, which equals 20 rounds per second or .05 for each cycle of the bolt. That’s with an open bolt SMG,

Somehow I don’t think that the .006 estimate above is accurate. That’s 13X faster than the MP5 and 8X faster than a Mac 11.
It’s faster than a mini gun on high which runs “only” about 6,000 rounds per min and has significant advantages. Running above 1,200-1,500 requires changes to feeding, extraction and even case material (brass pulls apart vs extracting). I think we’re talking about tests of the effect of dry lube.

Sadly not able this weekend, but I will dry lube a couple guns and see if I can at least reproduce the observation.
 
My gear is ready! Are you free this Friday, Sat, or Sunday? Range is about 1 hour from Waxhaw...

We can take pics and videos of our testing and post them up here next week!!
Not this weekend, but where is this range?
 
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