Advice on letting folks hunt...waivers, insurance, etc.

RFMan

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My sister and I are working through probate for my dad's land, and my wife and I purchased some adjoining land from my uncle. Lots of family and friends (both close and not-so-close) want to hunt on one or both. So do I, but right now I'm so busy, it's hard to find much time. This is a very rural area, and not exactly economically booming (so these are folks who eat what they hunt, and are not looking for trophies). Anyway, I have questions and am looking for advice. I know I'll get some here.

My dad let a cousin and a few close friends hunt on his land. I've had a couple of the same people, and someone I knew long ago, ask to hunt on the land we just purchased. I want to clean this situation up some, with some clean and protective paper trails.

I'm looking into drawing up, or having drawn up, a combo hunting agreement/liability waiver for folks to sign. I'm also thinking I want to require that they carry liability insurance and supply proof of that. I don't think I'm going to charge these particular folks to hunt, but that could change. I'm also going to require (I do this already) notification before going onto the property, so we know who is there and when. I don't want multiple folks on there at the same time, or if there are, it is imperative that THEY are also aware. All that said...

  • Does anyone know where I can find sample, simple, hunting/waiver agreements? What is your experience with them, either as lessor or lessee?
  • If we charge a small amount to a few select, non-family members, but folks I have known a great many years, what is the going rate for that kind of thing? We are not talking large tracts...maybe 60 acres here and there, just for the timbered portion, since the open pasture is leased for beef cattle to one of those close friends. And he HAS good liability coverage.
  • Does anyone have any good or bad experiences, or any been there/done that advice?

My biggest concern is that I don't want to open us up to being sued for someone looking for a payday. Also, character and reputation will lead to not wanting to allow certain folks to hunt who might otherwise be OK. In the past, my dad could be - and was - extremely casual about this stuff ("Yeah, you can hunt there."). I think he was very fortunate and blessed not to have anything untoward happen. I don't like to have to pull out a bunch of paper for folks to sign, and make then pony up for (probably pricey) insurance...but these are the times we are living in.

Thanks in advance...
 
Not an attorney, but I think if you collect any payment then you open the door to lots of potential issues including business licensing, insurance, property taxes, income taxes, etc.
 
From my experience of years before such a thing as hunting leases till the present time I have heard of both situations concerning liability insurance. However, I have never, in my lifetime, heard of anyone using such in any shape or form. Not saying anything can't happen but I think the actual occurrences are scarce and have come about by a chicken little mentality which has been promoted by insurance companies. I would wager that far more money has been made by the insurance companies than the benefits of all pay outs by a loooooong shot.

As to your question concerning lease prices, it is very dependent on the location (county), type of land (mixed hardwood, planted pines, bottoms), size of property and species it is being leased for. Depending on the property, deer rights can go as high as $25/ac. in some places. Turkey, when split out, usually $5-$10/ac., depending. That being said, there is currently a 30 ac. tract being advertised for turkey only for $1000. It probably won't get rented at that rate. Sometimes it is better to not charge for access if that person is close enough to keep a close eye on the property and is willing to post it and monitor it for the hunting rights. Rest assured, if it is not posted, it will be used.
 
Not an attorney, but I think if you collect any payment then you open the door to lots of potential issues including business licensing, insurance, property taxes, income taxes, etc.

Income tax, yes, if you report it. No business licensing involved and it doesn't effect the property tax.
 
My inclination is to not charge for the access, especially since these are not strangers.

Keep the comments coming - all very helpful.
 
Spend the $250 (or so) and speak with an attorney licensed in SC that can actually answer all of your questions and give you the practical pros and cons of whatever scenarios you are considering. Also, if you want a liability waiver, or some other document, the attorney can help you there as well. It may be overkill. But if it ever does come to a situation where the document is actually needed or called into question in Court, you will be glad you had it drawn up by someone who knows what they are doing.
 
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For about seven years, I've been the caretaker of about seventy acres of land in Chatham County, NC for an absentee owner. It's been a great arrangement for both of us. I pay nothing for the use of the property for hunting and shooting. He gets eyes on the property. I have so many cameras that a squirrel can't cross the property without me knowing it. I've caught trespassers, cut down trees that were a hazard, maintained the roads and hauled away truck loads of trash. I've built good relationships with all the neighbors who text me whenever they see anything going on over there (I live 30 miles away myself).

So if you are less interested in revenue and want someone to help you care for the property, maybe you could find someone who would be a good steward of the place in exchange for the type of work described above.
 
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Hell, it doesn't matter if they win a case or not, you're broke from the attorney fees which will run into the tens of thousands or more! Plus, you would be viewed as a richard by your neighbors.
 
Two quick experiences to relate. I was the lease holder on some paper company land and started a hunt club. I had access to a corporate attorney for free legal advice. She helped me draft a waiver for the club members. I did collect moneys to pay the paper co. The crux of the waiver was waiving liability and negligence. The attorney did warn me that the negligence waiver would not hold up in court but I had seen and she had seen negligence waivers in contracts before and it may provide a leg to stand but a shaky one. My other experience was as a hunter getting permission to hunt a small farm. In NC at least at that time, dont know anymore, you had to have written permission to hunt land you did not own and you had to have it on you along with a hunting license when hunting. The farm owner made me and my hunting buddy buy insurance that I never did quite understand. I guess it was liability insurance to protect the owner. It was easy to obtain and it was cheap. That's all I know.
 
Would creating a LLC help with this in regard to liability?
As part of the probate/inheriting process, my sister and I plan to place the inherited farmland directly into an LLC, for overall protection.

I have some recommendations for local estate planning attorneys, and plan to use one. There are considerations and aspects to all this that are outside my competence.
 
DO NOT TAKE MONEY...…...it changes the whole game. If you decide to do this, lease it to somebody else and let them be the first rung on the ladder of liability.[/QUOTE


I agree. Giving permission to hunt/fish to more than one entity is asking for conflict. Once given, people have a tendency to view that as a perpetual right, not to be taken away. You will become the bad guy.
 
Once given, people have a tendency to view that as a perpetual right, not to be taken away.
This I have definitely found to be true with certain individuals. Ironically, expressing that kind of attitude to me is likely to result in revoked access :)
 
Anyone know of a decent estate planning attorney in se NC? We own some land and are trying to figure out what to do with some of it.
 
Still true to this day.

I do not think so in NC unless the land is legally posted. I wish it were true. It would save me a lot of time and money. The purple paint helps, but does not go far enough, in my opinion, giving landowners better legal protection.

If land in NC is automatically posted, please give me a reference. My understanding is that a person may go on unposted land until it becomes posted or until the landowner tells him to leave and not come back. Posted land requires a written permission slip signed by the landowner and dated within a year of the day of the hunt in order to be legal.
 
I do not think so in NC unless the land is legally posted. I wish it were true. It would save me a lot of time and money. The purple paint helps, but does not go far enough, in my opinion, giving landowners better legal protection.

If land in NC is automatically posted, please give me a reference. My understanding is that a person may go on unposted land until it becomes posted or until the landowner tells him to leave and not come back. Posted land requires a written permission slip signed by the landowner and dated within a year of the day of the hunt in order to be legal.

I saw it at one time, I'll try and find it again. I might have it confused with towns or counties that require written permission to hunt, fish or trap.
 
I saw it at one time, I'll try and find it again. I might have it confused with towns or counties that require written permission to hunt, fish or trap.
Some counties may have local laws requiring permission for unposted lands.
 
There is no overall trespass law except the "Landowner Protection Act" which covers trespass for hunting and fishing. This is also known as the "purple paint law". If someone is not hunting on your land then the purple paint means nothing. There is a hodgepodge of trespass laws at the county level and landowners in NC are at the bottom of the rung when it comes to protection. There main purpose is to create tax revenue from their land and not keep people off. And trespassers have legal rights too! :mad:
 
I was too lazy to read all the above but my dad and his business partner less a decent amount of land out for hunting. Me and another member on here lease part of it. But he requires liability waiver and whole harmless agreements to be signed, also a list of people who will be using the property. Kids,cousins, nephews and so on that might come hunt with a leaser. On another note I have an aunt in FL and she requires the before mentioned along with copies of DL of all members of lease. She's already run club off cause they wouldn't provid copies. But all that being said I can tell you that sometimes once someone leases a piece of land for an extended length of time, they sometimes start to think of it as theirs, this has caused my dad the most headaches over the years. Before you know it someone is trying to tell you what you can do with your land and when.
 
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I was too lazy to read all the above but my dad and his business partner less a decent amount of land out for hunting. Me and another member on here lease part of it. But he requires liability waiver and whole harmless agreements to be signed, also a list of people who will be using the property. Kids,cousins, nephews and so on that might come hunt with a leaser. On another note I have an aunt in FL and she requires the before mentioned along with copies of DL of all members of lease. She's already run club off cause they wouldn't provid copies. But all that being said I can tell you that sometimes once someone leases a piece of land for an extended length of time, they sometimes start to think of it as theirs, this has caused my dad the most headaches over the years. Before you know it someone is trying to tell you what you can do with your land and when.
Even if they are not paying, these attitudes still come up. My father had let a friend and his wife hunt on some of his land for several years, no cost, no nothing. He had the pasture portion leased to another friend for beef cattle. Said friend did some improvements; he had already rented a dozer, and he brought it over and cleared some of the brush out and fenced it (best looking fencing on the place) to expand pasture for cattle - WITH DAD'S EXPRESS PERMISSION. It looks TONS better, and grown-up non-accessible land is now usable. As long as we assured him that he could continue leasing long enough to make that pay, he did the improvements for nothing (though his lease amount isn't really that high). Well, the other couple had to move their stands, and there is now less brush habitat...they were really mad that this had been done, and bitched and moaned mightily. But it's not their land AT ALL, and they basically had been freeloading on it. Too bad - y'all can accommodate the changes, or find somewhere else.
 
Even if they are not paying, these attitudes still come up. My father had let a friend and his wife hunt on some of his land for several years, no cost, no nothing. He had the pasture portion leased to another friend for beef cattle. Said friend did some improvements; he had already rented a dozer, and he brought it over and cleared some of the brush out and fenced it (best looking fencing on the place) to expand pasture for cattle - WITH DAD'S EXPRESS PERMISSION. It looks TONS better, and grown-up non-accessible land is now usable. As long as we assured him that he could continue leasing long enough to make that pay, he did the improvements for nothing (though his lease amount isn't really that high). Well, the other couple had to move their stands, and there is now less brush habitat...they were really mad that this had been done, and bitched and moaned mightily. But it's not their land AT ALL, and they basically had been freeloading on it. Too bad - y'all can accommodate the changes, or find somewhere else.

If seen this happen alot, or similar . Most of the land I'm referring to was bought to grow trees. I cant tell you how many times I've heard my dad say " we bought this land to grow trees not deer(or turkeys)", usually ends the conversation.
 
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