Guns and Bourbon. Will history repeat itself?

Group23

Group23

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I just returned from a trip to Kentucky to visit locations (12) on the Bourbon Trail. (And to pick up my son from school). Every distillery I visited talked about Prohibition, which went into effect in January of 1920. The demand for liquor was so great that kingpins like Al Capone were able to rake in up to $100 million (close to $1.5 billion in today’s dollars) each year thanks to the overwhelming business opportunity of illegal booze. With legitimate bars and breweries out of business, Prohibition actually created “organized crime”, as street gangs and thugs added the business acumen to the violence and intimidation that they already knew. Congress, in its infinite wisdom finally repealed prohibition in December of 1933. But organized crime still exists today.

To quote the History Channel, “In hindsight, it’s clear that Prohibition, a national temperance campaign aimed at reforming America's worst tendencies, that gave birth to one of the nation’s worst criminal traditions.”

I couldn’t stop drawing comparisons to what is going on today. It seems that government should, but never learns from its mistakes of the past. The new national temperance is gun control. Have they not figured out that shutting down legitimate gun owners, shops, shows, and businesses will give rise to a new avenue of activity for organized crime and gun violence will just grow at a faster pace?

As Kentucky law prohibits the possession of a firearm in any distillery, I respectfully left my sidearm in the car as all law abiding citizens would do. I also thought this would be a good idea, since I would be tasting up to 5 different offerings at each distillery. Point being is that most conceal carry folks are law abiding citizens and the people with criminal intent are not going to follow the law...

The trip was fantastic, but the lingering thought that kept going through my mind was, will forgotten history repeat itself? I know that I am preaching to the choir, but we have got to fight for our 2nd Amendment right, constantly, and without ceasing!
 
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Lived there for about 7 years and I thought the Bourbon trail was fantastic. It was a tasty history lesson for sure. Have several bourbon cook books too.

Example:

Broiled Salmon Filets
1 part dark brown sugar
1 part stone ground mustard
1 part Bourbon

Mix and brush liberally on filets
Broil several minutes until sugar just begins to carmelize
Garnish with lemon wedges

Enjoy!

I serve with steamed broccoli and wild rice
 
Has anyone considered that another prohibition created mafia may be just what the self- righteous instigators desire?
 
I think the problem here is that we tend to think of these issues of lessons not being learned as "The Government" instead of "The People".

Remember, Prohibition was brought about by PEOPLE and first started growing steam within individual states.

In fact, the origins of Prohibition can easily be traced back more than a century before, to at least the 1820s, where religious revivalism pushed for various temperance (abstinence from alcoholic drinks) and perfectionist movements. Massachusetts passed a temperance law in the 1830s which banned the sale of spirits in less than 15 gallon quantities. It was repealed a couple years later, but that was a start. Maine passed the first prohibition laws in the 1840s, followed by a stricter one in the 1850s. By the time the Civil War started, several states had followed suit.

By 1900, there were temperance societies all over the country and, if you remember your high school history classes on this, women were a very powerful force in this movement because of how alcohol was viewed as a destructive force in families and marriages. The rise of evangelical Protestantism in those times played a huge role in this. From there, factory owners started supporting prohibition as a way to prevent accidents and increase efficiency of workers.

WWI probably started the final nail in the coffin on Prohibition, because there was a temporary wartime prohibition of alcohol in order to save grain for the production of food to support the war effort. In fact, it was that same year when Congress submitted the 18th Amendment.

Once a movement becomes significant enough, then it most certainly will become political...because "power".


Does all this sound familiar? It should because the whole gun control movement is virtually identical to the Prohibition movement.

I'm a fan of Robert A. Heinlein and his book "The Moon is a Harsh Mistress has a couple good quotes relevant to this:

"Thing that got me was not her list of things she hated, since she was obviously crazy as a Cyborg, but fact that always somebody agreed with her prohibitions. Must be a yearning deep in human heart to stop other people from doing as they please. Rules, laws — always for other fellow. A murky part of us, something we had before we came down out of trees, and failed to shuck when we stood up. Because not one of those people said: "Please pass this so that I won't be able to do something I know I should stop." Nyet, tovarishchee, was always something they hated to see neighbors doing. Stop them "for their own good" — not because speaker claimed to be harmed by it.

"What I fear most are affirmative actions of sober and well-intentioned men, granting to government powers to do something that appears to need doing."
 
So, parking areas around the KY bourbon trail are the perfect opportunity for criminals to shop for nice firearms - that is why I am in @gunbelt camp: concealed is concealed with only exception when I have to go into an area through a metal detector but most times I make the decision if I really need to visit that venue.
 
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Ben Jefferson said:
I must've been a wierd kid, I never complained about eating broccoli.

I even liked brussel sprouts.

Still do!
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OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
When I was in boot camp I ate everything they put on my tray or anything on another boot's tray that they didn't want. Except twice when we had (ughh!!!) brussel sprouts.
 
gunbelt said:
Concealed is concealed. And i respect my god given right of self protection over any silly rules imposed by corporation. I lived in KY most of my life & never disarmed or knew many that do.
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I respect other people's property and their rights. If they have such a strong objection to mine that they don't want my business, I wave (one finger only) as I pass by on my way to their competition just down the road.

What I have zero respect for are public servants who are so delusional that they think they are our masters as they issuedecrees that declare that the exact acts that the highest law of the land declares to be rights are now criminal.

mechdriver said:
Has anyone considered that another prohibition created mafia may be just what the self- righteous instigators desire?
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They are the self righteous mafia. At least the real mafia doesn't add insult to injury by telling you it's for your own good that they steal the fruit of your labor.





Well, actually they do, but it's sarcasm and they don't really believe it. :confused:
 
gunbelt said:
Concealed is concealed. And i respect my god given right of self protection over any silly rules imposed by corporation. I lived in KY most of my life & never disarmed or knew many that do.
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I know for a fact there's been at least one J Frame carried on the Kentucky Bourbon Trail
 
as Joan Rivers said: "what's wrong with organized crime? what we have now is dis-organized crime. i liked organized crime. they knew how to treat a lady."
 
RetiredUSNChief said:
I think the problem here is that we tend to think of these issues of lessons not being learned as "The Government" instead of "The People".

Remember, Prohibition was brought about by PEOPLE and first started growing steam within individual states.
Good post, Chief ! This sums up a lot of issues we've needed to sort out for a long time.
In fact, the origins of Prohibition can easily be traced back more than a century before, to at least the 1820s, where religious revivalism pushed for various temperance (abstinence from alcoholic drinks) and perfectionist movements. Massachusetts passed a temperance law in the 1830s which banned the sale of spirits in less than 15 gallon quantities. It was repealed a couple years later, but that was a start. Maine passed the first prohibition laws in the 1840s, followed by a stricter one in the 1850s. By the time the Civil War started, several states had followed suit.

By 1900, there were temperance societies all over the country and, if you remember your high school history classes on this, women were a very powerful force in this movement because of how alcohol was viewed as a destructive force in families and marriages. The rise of evangelical Protestantism in those times played a huge role in this. From there, factory owners started supporting prohibition as a way to prevent accidents and increase efficiency of workers.

WWI probably started the final nail in the coffin on Prohibition, because there was a temporary wartime prohibition of alcohol in order to save grain for the production of food to support the war effort. In fact, it was that same year when Congress submitted the 18th Amendment.

Once a movement becomes significant enough, then it most certainly will become political...because "power".


Does all this sound familiar? It should because the whole gun control movement is virtually identical to the Prohibition movement.

I'm a fan of Robert A. Heinlein and his book "The Moon is a Harsh Mistress has a couple good quotes relevant to this:

"Thing that got me was not her list of things she hated, since she was obviously crazy as a Cyborg, but fact that always somebody agreed with her prohibitions. Must be a yearning deep in human heart to stop other people from doing as they please. Rules, laws — always for other fellow. A murky part of us, something we had before we came down out of trees, and failed to shuck when we stood up. Because not one of those people said: "Please pass this so that I won't be able to do something I know I should stop." Nyet, tovarishchee, was always something they hated to see neighbors doing. Stop them "for their own good" — not because speaker claimed to be harmed by it.

"What I fear most are affirmative actions of sober and well-intentioned men, granting to government powers to do something that appears to need doing."
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Good post, Chief !!
 
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While there would undoubtedly be a criminal market for firearms if they were banned, but they surely wouldn't incorporate the social aspects of the places where prohibited liquor was being sold. While I can see folks hiding them so be able to have something that most won’t, it’s just not the same as having something that can be shared and that can be regularly replaced with something new.

A prohibition on firearms will not create a new waive of organized crime, although existing organized crime will benefit.
 
Umm, yeah. "War on drugs", anyone? That has done more for organized (and disorganized crime) than anything since prohibition. Or probably before. Even to the point of destabilizing central American governments, filling the jails with kids stupid enough to get caught, creating a permanent underclass of minorities with criminal records who can't get a decent job and militarizing police who now look at the citizens they are supposed to protect as the enemy. And vice versa. Does manage to keep the lawyers, cops and jailers in business, though.

No, people don't learn. They get themselves all wrapped up in self righteous indignation about whatever the moral hysteria of the day is and want to "do something about it". Which invariably means giving some, or all, branches of government even more power over all of us.

People are effing STUPID.
 
Stick said:
Umm, yeah. "War on drugs", anyone? That has done more for organized (and disorganized crime) than anything since prohibition. Or probably before. Even to the point of destabilizing central American governments, filling the jails with kids stupid enough to get caught, creating a permanent underclass of minorities with criminal records who can't get a decent job and militarizing police who now look at the citizens they are supposed to protect as the enemy. And vice versa. Does manage to keep the lawyers, cops and jailers in business, though.
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That seems to be a rather unpopular opinion around here, from my (recent, granted) experience.
 
random said:
That seems to be a rather unpopular opinion around here, from my (recent, granted) experience.
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Well, so far no one has come along to tell me I'm wrong. Besides, the point really wasn't just about drugs, it's how choreographed moral panics are used to manipulate the sheep. And, re Second Amendment rights, the same kind of choreographed moral panic is being used against the right to keep and bear arms. As an old frenemy, who happened to hold a phd in psychology once said, the easiest way to manipulate large numbers of people is with fear. Our basic human instinct is to destroy what we are afraid of. If people are taught to fear guns (And especially gun owners. On the next level this is more about attacking political foes than getting rid of guns.), it isn't too hard to push them to take the next logical steps.
 
Stick said:
Well, so far no one has come along to tell me I'm wrong. Besides, the point really wasn't just about drugs, it's how choreographed moral panics are used to manipulate the sheep. And, re Second Amendment rights, the same kind of choreographed moral panic is being used against the right to keep and bear arms. As an old frenemy, who happened to hold a phd in psychology once said, the easiest way to manipulate large numbers of people is with fear. Our basic human instinct is to destroy what we are afraid of. If people are taught to fear guns (And especially gun owners. On the next level this is more about attacking political foes than getting rid of guns.), it isn't too hard to push them to take the next logical steps.
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I can't argue with your point Stick!

Are you LEO by trade?
 
Stick said:
Well, so far no one has come along to tell me I'm wrong. Besides, the point really wasn't just about drugs, it's how choreographed moral panics are used to manipulate the sheep. And, re Second Amendment rights, the same kind of choreographed moral panic is being used against the right to keep and bear arms. As an old frenemy, who happened to hold a phd in psychology once said, the easiest way to manipulate large numbers of people is with fear. Our basic human instinct is to destroy what we are afraid of. If people are taught to fear guns (And especially gun owners. On the next level this is more about attacking political foes than getting rid of guns.), it isn't too hard to push them to take the next logical steps.
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I agree with your position here, but I've been told several times I'm wrong. Never a good explanation about "why", just that "drugs bad"
 
random said:
I agree with your position here, but I've been told several times I'm wrong. Never a good explanation about "why", just that "drugs bad"
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Well, they are right. Drugs bad. But, government war on drugs, worse. Way worse.
 
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