Velocity Question - 223

KnotRight

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First, I know every gun is different then the one sitting next to it even if it is the make, model and caliber.
Where this question is come from, a couple weeks ago while at the long range, a guy was shooting a 6.5 CM 140 ELDs he loaded to 2,800 ft/sec and the guy next to him was shooting the ELDs loaded at 2,700 ft/sec. There was about 1 M.O.A. difference at 500 yards from the same gun.
Take this one step farther. I reload my 223 - 55 grn bullets at 3,000 ft/sec and then shot some factory loads that were about 3,270 ft/sec and was able to hit the steel more consistent at 500 yards. Going back to my first statement about guns being different and I can not imagine someone loading different for 4 or more 223s. What velocity do you load you 223 55 grn bullet?
 
I think the old Sierra accuracy load for a 55gr pill with 21.5 grs Reloader # 7 is 2900fps out of a 20" bbl. Thats the velo I shoot for in loading various powders for 55gr AR loads.
 
Think of various loads like a golf bag full of 14 clubs ... each has a purpose. Velocity is one of a few variables ... projectile type/weight, COL, barrel twist, barrel length along with a few others. As far as different loads ... I have quite a few but only run a couple (hog rounds, long range and plinking) 95% of the time.
 
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Simply stated, if you have say 7 - 223 chamber guns, do you load one velocity for all the guns? If so, what is the velocity? I have some 223 platforms that gets shot once a year and others that get shot once a month. I am not going to load for each gun and try to keep the rounds separated. I found that the higher velocity were more accuracy then the 3,000 FT/SEC in a bolt action one of the ARs. So would you load above what you/I have loading (3000) for a stock pile? The 6.5 was an example of 100 ft/sec does in a 6.5 @ 500 yards
 
Out of a 16” carbine 1:7 or 1:8 twist is 2950 to 3050 fps ... and pretty much will hold 2 MOA.

NCFubar, when I was shooting the Hornady factory rounds out of the CZ bolt gun with a shorter barrel (those were about 3,250 ft/sec rated), once on target at 500 yards, I was keeping the hits well with in 2 M.O.A. That is why I started questioning should I load a little hotter than 3,000 ft/sec. That gun has never shot very good past 200 yards. The guy that gave me the rounds was shooting a 16" AR platform and hitting the steel with every shot.
 
You can not just speak of velocity ... I hot load 64gr soft points max loaded (just shy of a compressed volume) that are 3050plus for hogs for penetration. I never really checked accuracy outside of sighting in at 50 yards but I know they will not hold a candle to pet accuracy loads but they are minute of meat and give great penetration while letting the soft point expand. If I where to hot load my plinkers (or others even) to max load I’d expect they’d not be the most accurate from previous load development especially in my tighter tolerance chambered ones. I have a couple rifle that are picky about the weight and type of projectiles to a point I won’t even think about running other stuff.
 
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The OCW technique allows to find nodes in bullet accuracy across velocities.

I would category guns of the same caliber by twist rate only.

Then pick the bullet for best performance the twist rates.

Shoot the longest barrel gun and work a OCW load off it, and then you have your sweet spots.

Match the highest powder charge and accurate group to the long barrel and then match each node your barrel length ht work downwards on accurate groupings by barrel length.

Example:
25.5grns varget
24.5grns varget
23.8grns varget

Are three spots for 69 SMK

How I would match my .223 the ocw chart is:
22" barrel
18" barrel
16" barrel
 
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OP, have a quick sideline question...

with 223 @ 500 yards, what zero do you typically use and how much hold? I been dabbling at the 300 yard and getting better (w/ either RDS or a 1-4x optic).

after plugging my particular parameter values, my drop is very sharp after 300 yards—like 3+ feet low at 400+ yards. Planning on going out to 400 next trip to range sometime during week.
 
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I was going off Bullet Flight L2 app for the dope.
I tried the dope at 500 (9.8 MOA or 39 clicks) and the bullet was striking about 10 feet short I had to add about a whole 2 MOA to hit the 30" steel. When I tried the Hornady factory rounds I was over the target and had to dial back to just over 1 MOA.

223 Hornady 55 grn FMJ - 3,000 ft/sec
M.O.A. Clicks M.O.A. Clicks
50 1.0 4 350 4.6 18
100 0.0 0 400 6.1 24
150 0 .3 1 450 7.8 31
200 1.1 4 500 9.8 39
250 2.1 8 550 12.1 48
300 3.2 13 600 14.6 59
Gun was zeroed at 100 yards with less than 1 MOA. That is shooting off a bi-pod and rear bag.
At 200 yards was on a 3x6 inch plate with every shot using the data above.
 
OP, have a quick sideline question...

with 223 @ 500 yards, what zero do you typically use and how much hold? I been dabbling at the 300 yard and getting better (w/ either RDS or a 1-4x optic).

after plugging my particular parameter values, my drop is very sharp after 300 yards—like 3+ feet low at 400+ yards. Planning on going out to 400 next trip to range sometime during week.

14 moa +/- 1
 
Correction to my chart. Had the BC off.

1:7 twist and scope at 2"
If someone has a BC handy, please check my numbers

223 Hornady 55 grn FMJ - 3,000 ft/sec
M.O.A. Clicks M.O.A. Clicks
50 1.0 4 350 5.8 23
100 0.0 0 400 7.6 31
150 0.5 2 450 9.8 39
200 1.5 6 500 12.2 49
250 2.7 11 550 15.0 60
300 4.1 16 600 18.2 73

223 Hornady 55 grn FMJ - 3,100 ft/sec
M.O.A. Clicks M.O.A. Clicks
50 -1.0 4 350 5.3 21
100 0.0 0 400 7.0 28
150 0.5 2 450 9.0 36
200 1.4 5 500 11.2 45
250 2.5 10 550 13.7 55
300 3.8 15 600 13.7 66


223 Hornady 69 grn FMJ - 2,800 ft/sec
M.O.A. Clicks M.O.A. Clicks
50 0.7 3 350 6.1 25
100 0.0 0 400 8.0 32
150 0.6 2 450 10.0 40
200 1.7 7 500 12.2 49
250 3.0 12 550 14.7 59
300 4.5 18 600 17.4 69
 
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Going back to my first statement about guns being different and I can not imagine someone loading different for 4 or more 223s. What velocity do you load you 223 55 grn bullet?

Simply stated, if you have say 7 - 223 chamber guns, do you load one velocity for all the guns?

Too complicated...I like to keep things simple.

I worked up a load for 75 Speer GDSP / IMR 8208 XBR in 5.56 and the same load has performed well in barrels from 10.3" to 18". For practice, I load Speer 75 TMJs (same BC as the GDSP) or either Hornady 75 BTHP with the same powder/charge I use with the GDSPs and my practice loads shoot nearly identical to the GDs.

All the ARs I have in the stable are chambered the same...not to say there are not calibers out there for the platform that perform better than 5.56, but as I alluded to earlier, simple. Reloading? Same cartridge. Maintenance/parts? Same. Magazines? Same.
 
Multiple rifle in same caliber NOT for precision get all the same charges and what not. Velocities just pushed and worked on a little.

my 6.8SPCII and 358WIN, more care is taken for the loads for accuracy and performance, but velocities are limited but accuracy and down range performance doesn’t really suffer.

my 308, is loaded for accuracy, not to push a projectile in to orbital velocities

some calibers and projectiles like speed, some don’t.
 
I generally load my 55 gr FMJs with Hodgdon BL-C(2) about 27.0 grs IIRC (3200 fps out of 20"). Don't remember my velocities as I shot my two Chrony's. Mine are generally for plinking and I have many different 5.56mm/.223 Wylde chambered tubes, lengths and twists. My long range loads get 75/77 gr BTHPs with everything except the 1:14 twist bbl.

multiple 5.56mm 10.3" 1:7
multiple 5.56mm 14.5" 1:7
5.56mm 16" 1:7
.223 Wylde 18" 3 twists of 1:14, 1:6 and 1:5
5.56mm 20" 1:7


CD
 
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