PSA PRICE GOUGING???

9MM CCI 115 Ball..$159 in December, $309 today?? Does this look kinda like Cheaper Than Dirt to ya'll?

Now if we say it's just the "new norm" do we give PSA a pass? Your thoughts......
I posted this elsewhere, and will repost it here in case you missed it:

FWIW...PSA posted this today as part of a bigger “current status” type post on AR15:

AMMO: Our reputation is built on our ability to provide you with quality products at competitive prices.

You have an expectation of great quality and better pricing when you shop with us, and we know that.

The current state of the country has been hard on all of us, and it has certainly placed a strain on supply chains around the world - specifically on ammunition.

Ammo is now carrying a price tag for us that is higher than what we sold it to you for just a week ago.

Our cost to acquire ammo is up overall. Unfortunately, we have lost the ability to negotiate with suppliers due to the current demand. Typically we could use our size and buying power to negotiate pricing and terms that are passed on to the consumer. As demand increases our negotiation strength decreases. Our prices rise and when that happens, we have to pass it on.

Every round of ammunition that was in inventory (purchased under our specially negotiated programs prior to this event) is gone.

What you see for sale now is brand new inventory that we've had to purchase at much higher prices.

One specific example from a quote we received today: normally we can buy a 50 round box of a particular ammo for $7.50 and sell it to you for about $8.99. Today, we were quoted $11.50 for that same box. A four dollar (~50%) increase in cost. For our margins to stay the same, so that we can stay in business, our price on that box would now need be about $13.50.

That's not what you expect from us, and we understand that. But that's what the market, the news and the public demand has given us at this time.

Is that a free pass for them to charge whatever they want? No...but it’s a real world example of what’s going on.
 
I’ve never understood the “price gouging” hysterics.

This is all Econ 101, supply/demand, price curve, market forces, etc.

Someone is gonna come along and note that PSA is now making $2 /box of ammo vs $1.50 in @BigWaylon ’s example above. And many will consider that “gouging”. I say it’s a hedge against loss of sales as the price increased and future supply becomes questionable.
 
I’ve never understood the “price gouging” hysterics.

This is all Econ 101, supply/demand, price curve, market forces, etc.

Someone is gonna come along and note that PSA is now making $2 /box of ammo vs $1.50 in @BigWaylon ’s example above. And many will consider that “gouging”. I say it’s a hedge against loss of sales as the price increased and future supply becomes questionable.


Yup and increasing prices cools hysterical demand as well.

I'm a prime example. I haven't bought a single round of ammo in 2020. I really haven't had much time to shoot and I was well supplied.

A few weeks ago I thought, maybe I should pick up a case of 9mm...just in case.
Took a look at the usual suspects and things were either sold out or prices were already on the rise.

I stopped and thought, nope I'm good. If prices had still been prepanic I might have bought a couple thousand rounds. That I didn't need....

Now individually my impact on the ammo market is statistically nil. But when you multiply a few thousand or tens of thousands of me making those rational decisions in response to market panics.....well....
 
Why is anybody who frequents a gun board buying now anyway? I'm still shooting stuff I bought before Obama pricing because FIFO. There shouldn't be any buying happening now, we're the guys (and gals) who knew to set some back for practice in times like these. The folks shopping for ammo now are those newly awoken to the understanding that the police can't be expected to protect them and the reality that it's their own responsibility to deal with & have the correct tools on hand to deal with these types of problems. If they have to pay a premium until things level out we should be grateful...they're reaping the fruits of the policies they've been voting for and now may have a greater understanding of how wrong they were.
 
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Most people don’t fully understand supply and demand.

When there is a shortage of goods, no matter whether because there is a limited supply or because more people are purchasing what supply was available, the replacement cost of goods goes up.

So, as a business that sells to the public, no matter whether or not you have stock bought at a lower price or not, if you want to remain in business you have to raise your sale price.

That way you can afford to pay the higher cost of acquiring a resupply of those goods.
 
Yup and increasing prices cools hysterical demand as well.

I'm a prime example. I haven't bought a single round of ammo in 2020. I really haven't had much time to shoot and I was well supplied.

A few weeks ago I thought, maybe I should pick up a case of 9mm...just in case.
Took a look at the usual suspects and things were either sold out or prices were already on the rise.

I stopped and thought, nope I'm good. If prices had still been prepanic I might have bought a couple thousand rounds. That I didn't need....

Now individually my impact on the ammo market is statistically nil. But when you multiply a few thousand or tens of thousands of me making those rational decisions in response to market panics.....well....

Agreed...……..your comments mirror my ammo situation to a "T". Click the link below and we'll see that fuel prices are at the opposite side of the spectrum right now due to the same theory as mentioned in this thread about ammo.

As you go off and view the link below see if it makes you wonder about all of those pundits throughout the Obammy years who kept SCREAMING that we were in an oil shortage that we would never see resolved. John Kerry, Biden, Algore, and many others foamed at the mouth screaming that crap to try and make it resonate across the world.

I well remember seeing unleaded gasoline at 4.85/gal in our region during that particular crap-storm about fuel. You'll find that Costco had unleaded at 1.30/gal this week...……...well imagine that during a world wide fuel shortage "that we would never see resolved" !! Oh...……..by the way......is anyone seeing a fuel shortage anywhere you're traveling to these days ?? I'm all ears.

https://www.carolinafirearmsforum.com/index.php?threads/fuel-prices.59465/
 
S&W Shield 9mm was $249 forever. Now $289. They are (pretty much) all doing it. Hornady has a you tube viddy where Hornady the younger says they have not raised prices since Corona. If their ammo prices are up it's because of the greed of the reseller. Now what they need to do is go end user direct.
 
Most people don’t fully understand supply and demand.

When there is a shortage of goods, no matter whether because there is a limited supply or because more people are purchasing what supply was available, the replacement cost of goods goes up.

So, as a business that sells to the public, no matter whether or not you have stock bought at a lower price or not, if you want to remain in business you have to raise your sale price.

That way you can afford to pay the higher cost of acquiring a resupply of those goods.

And it isn't just the cost of the raw materials or finished product either. Transport costs also factor in. Truck drivers are running above capacity right now. You want something prioritized for shipping? Gotta pay for that too.
 
What is their supplier charging? CTD are douche-bags because they raise prices before the ink in the newspaper is even dry.
They wait another day or two and no one would care?
 
I had wondered this myself. I went online to check the few distributors I use and they have all but doubled their price to me.
S&W Shield 9mm was $249 forever. Now $289. They are (pretty much) all doing it. Hornady has a you tube viddy where Hornady the younger says they have not raised prices since Corona. If their ammo prices are up it's because of the greed of the reseller. Now what they need to do is go end user direct.

Sadly a lot of distributors are racking up the price to larger retailers too. Some of the blame can rest with them. Being a small FFL I cannot buy directly from Hornady, I have to go through distributors that are more like politicians, never let a crisis go to waste.
 
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I posted this elsewhere, and will repost it here in case you missed it:

FWIW...PSA posted this today as part of a bigger “current status” type post on AR15:

AMMO: Our reputation is built on our ability to provide you with quality products at competitive prices.

You have an expectation of great quality and better pricing when you shop with us, and we know that.

The current state of the country has been hard on all of us, and it has certainly placed a strain on supply chains around the world - specifically on ammunition.

Ammo is now carrying a price tag for us that is higher than what we sold it to you for just a week ago.

Our cost to acquire ammo is up overall. Unfortunately, we have lost the ability to negotiate with suppliers due to the current demand. Typically we could use our size and buying power to negotiate pricing and terms that are passed on to the consumer. As demand increases our negotiation strength decreases. Our prices rise and when that happens, we have to pass it on.

Every round of ammunition that was in inventory (purchased under our specially negotiated programs prior to this event) is gone.

What you see for sale now is brand new inventory that we've had to purchase at much higher prices.

One specific example from a quote we received today: normally we can buy a 50 round box of a particular ammo for $7.50 and sell it to you for about $8.99. Today, we were quoted $11.50 for that same box. A four dollar (~50%) increase in cost. For our margins to stay the same, so that we can stay in business, our price on that box would now need be about $13.50.

That's not what you expect from us, and we understand that. But that's what the market, the news and the public demand has given us at this time.

Is that a free pass for them to charge whatever they want? No...but it’s a real world example of what’s going on.
This makes sense. Working for a manufacturer, I’ve seen and have actually been highly involved in a similar situation with regard to removing negotiating power.

The ammo manufacturers have no incentive to negotiate today, and previously they were probably deeply discounting to PSA for the sake of their volume. So it makes sense for PSA to have large % increases.

The fact that they explained this goes a long way in my mind. They’re not on the same level as CTD.
 
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Local gun shop new prices on 115 ball . There selling 1000 rounds for $190 a few weeks ago.

htKoYK.jpg
 
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I did buy 150 rounds of Black Hills 77gr .223. I had been meaning to get some and, well, it wasn't any more than it usually is. But that's a special case.

Otherwise, years of accumulation will do me for now.
 
Wouldn't a better example of gouging" be selling critical supplies during or after an emergency of some type? Like if you bought all the bottled water or food up after a hurricane came through and we're selling it for a very high price. There's a shortage on ammo right now but I'm fairly certain everyone who has a firearm has some. So no one's deprived. On a side note if you were listing some ammo for sale and used an after GunBroker auction price for the same thing is that still considered "gouging"? @Chris24
 
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But you said-

"IMHO, if you have ammo for sale, charge whatever the hell you want. It's your personal property. I do not think it's gouging."

https://www.carolinafirearmsforum.com/index.php?threads/price-gouging.59382/#post-1044964

.
Right. It's their property. I reserve the right to think they're asshats for doing it. But I don't have to buy it. And when you charge the market price, that is what it is. CTD seems to have a crystal ball or are real damn good at calling the shortages and seem to raise (or cancel orders and relist items at much higher prices) prices the second the shit goes south.
 
Didn't hear many complaining when there were all those rebates and sales and ammo was damn near free. But I'm sure they all sent extra monies, just to be fair.
Anyone on this board had plenty of time to buy at historic low prices (recent history anyway) and I suspect most of us did. If not (and you weren't broke for non-gun reasons) then there is nobody else to blame.

If you just bought your first gun and a box or two of ammo in a panic, and the ammo is 30/box instead of 20, does it matter that much? I know, I know... "training!". Right. Like people that panic buy are going to go out and find a class or even go to a range with a friend during a pandemic. I hope they become avid shooters over the next couple of years and are buying case of ammo but that isn't reality right now (and a lot (most?) won't even shoot their guns and will eventually get rid of them, sadly).

So supply and demand is doing its job. The supply is what it is (and is probably growing as we speak), and the demand is up so the price goes up, depressing demand until it balances. When it's a buyer's market I don't feel guilty for getting a good price (and I don't send extra money! :) ), and when it's a seller's market I don't think the sellers should feel guilty for getting a good price.

The _only_ alternative is price fixing, which is bad for everyone.
 
Our NC AG is investigating NC vendors on Amazon accused of raising prices 40% on Coronavirus related supplies between Feb 10 and March 16.

40%. That seems like chicken feed to to me. Surely there must be some real crime elsewhere for him to prosecute.
 
I can still buy match grade .45acp that just makes power factor for pretty much the same thing I could buy it before all this, but it was highway robbery even before. :)
 
supply and demand

how does that work?

;)

I love capitalism, but sometimes you're the windshield, and sometimes you’re the bug.
This time, however, I think we are all the bug.


Its not that bad. I get a notice from AIM Surplus every week or so with their latest shipment of 9mm. Its always under 20 cents a round delivered as they havent seen it necessary to jack pricing yet and if they do i\I'm sure it will be because of a distributor issue. I think once peoople figure out they can't fight their way out of a pandemic things will stabilize.
 
If we allowed price gouging then there would be toilet paper on the shelves. Now, everyone grabs a pack whether they need it or not. Allow the free market to work and there will be no shortages.
DING DING DING.

Mr. Foot, please pick up your chicken dinner at the second window.
 
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We're always one school shooting or election away from a panic buy and prices getting jacked up. It's happened before and it will happen again. I can't wrap my head around those whining about ammo "gouging" when we've literally had the last 3 years to grab an extra case here and there and tuck it away someplace.

If someone "needs" 9mm at this point, it's no one's fault but their own (brand-new shooters excepted).

Capture-e1500925098787.png
 
Who in their right mind would pay 31 cents a round for 115 grain fmj 9mm ammo.thsts double what it was a month ago

Times like this is why I reload. Now, before Chicken Little came to town with the Kung Flu, I haven’t been reloading a lot, because frankly, it was more economical to buy, especially since I’m not shooting as much and I’ve been playing rock star for the last couple of years. I have been able to get reloaded ammo down to 8-9 cents per round and 11ish cents for 10mm. But when loaded prices are 1-2 cents higher than reload prices, I’ll just buy it. Besides, it builds my brass stockpile anyway....


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Times like this is why I reload. Now, before Chicken Little came to town with the Kung Flu, I haven’t been reloading a lot, because frankly, it was more economical to buy, especially since I’m not shooting as much and I’ve been playing rock star for the last couple of years. I have been able to get reloaded ammo down to 8-9 cents per round and 11ish cents for 10mm. But when loaded prices are 1-2 cents higher than reload prices, I’ll just buy it. Besides, it builds my brass stockpile anyway....


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Same here. For the past 2 years, I bought more then I loaded, was about the same price. You can still find decent prices out there if you look. I just got some steel cased 9mm for ¢17 each. steel .223 for ¢22 and .22lr thunderturds (that work perfect in what I shoot) for ¢5.
 
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