Staggering death stats

Majicmike said:
View attachment 201026 Source Rush Limbaugh show. I take it that they researched pretty well. I’m not downplaying the Corona virus by any means because we haven’t seen the worse. Just putting things into perspective.
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Did Rush reference if these are national or international numbers?
 
12151791 said:
Did Rush reference if these are national or international numbers?
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Rush’s site says those are international stats.
Good call.
I just deleted my post above. But it makes me wonder why the worldwide seasonal flu deaths would only be four times our deaths in the US. Our population isn’t that big comparatively speaking.
 
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fieldgrade said:
Rush’s site says those are international stats.
Good call.
I just deleted my post above. But it makes me wonder why the worldwide seasonal flu deaths would only be four times our deaths in the US. Our population isn’t that big comparatively speaking.
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Just a guess....It could be that a lot of the third world countries don’t even report seasonal flu deaths.
 
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fieldgrade said:
Rush’s site says those are international stats.
Good call.
I just deleted my post above. But it makes me wonder why the worldwide seasonal flu deaths would only be four times our deaths in the US. Our population isn’t that big comparatively speaking.
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Maybe because a lot of folks get a flu shot. The elderly get a souped up version.
 
12151791 said:
Just a guess....It could be that a lot of the third world countries don’t even report seasonal flu deaths.
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Was always impossible to get any traction with anti-HIV/AIDS programs in Africa. Locals thought the white man was trying to trick them & in a place where malaria, dengue, Ebola & the like, or even plain ol' TB is likely to kill you before you see 40, who really cares?
 
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charliesgrave said:
We'll see if that happens here when someone can't visit grandma
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Well the first few might unhook gram from the ventilator to get her out, but I think folks will learn pretty fast that it’s not a great idea.
 
Numbers are just that, until its a loved one. Then its a person, once we all start to know someone who died then the cold "stats" will change.

I just don't want to be the guy who kills my family members from being a dip shot....

Stay smart, give a crap, be helpful.
 
I’ve seen that medical errors cause 250,000-440,000 deaths a year. Johns Hopkins had the lower estimate, can’t remember who had the high end. Maybe CDC.

Of course numbers are numbers. You can choose to use the actual dead person count or you can extrapolate a percentage number to validate your arguments.

CHRIS
 
A lot of people are blowing off the stay at home orders because "it doesn't seem that bad". That's just the thing. Its staying at home, and not spreading the disease that keeps it from getting bad.

The better staying at home works, the more people will think it isn't worth it. Human nature, I guess.

JBoyette is right. Its easy to just look at the numbers until it starts to affect people you know. I personally want to keep this outbreak as as small and slow as possible.
 
RedneckFur said:
A lot of people are blowing off the stay at home orders because "it doesn't seem that bad". That's just the thing. Its staying at home, and not spreading the disease that keeps it from getting bad.

The better staying at home works, the more people will think it isn't worth it. Human nature, I guess.

JBoyette is right. Its easy to just look at the numbers until it starts to affect people you know. I personally want to keep this outbreak as as small and slow as possible.
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We can have 40 Hurricanes a year but if none of them hit the US it was a slow season.
 
dmarbell said:
https://www.cdc.gov/flu/pandemic-resources/1968-pandemic.html

Who remembers this? I don't but I had other stuff on my mind at the time.
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I do. I was in boot camp, and I was far more concerned with catching something awful from my DI.
I also remember the "Asian flu" outbreak in the winter of 57-58. It was a BFD worry-wise in coastal NC, as I recall.
My maternal grandfather's education ended in the 1918 epidemic when he was sent home from college. (He turned out just fine without the degree, though.)
 
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The issue isn't cold and calculating vs close and personal. The issue isn't a pandemic. As many of us have said and continue to say, the issue is the overreaction of the government and the lunacy of the masses.

This virus is, at worst, as deadly and as contagious as the flu. All year long, not just during flu season, I wash my hands before touching my face and before I eat. If I have to sneeze I do so away from others if, at all possible, and if not I make sure to contain it and then wash my hands.

If I have a fever I stay home. If it doesn't go away with self treatment or runs high I go to the Dr. I sleep in the spare bedroom so I don't get my wife sick. I most assuredly stay away from the elderly and children if I have a fever.

And I would suggest that most people behave in the same fashion.

Simply practicing good hygiene is just as effective at preventing this illness as any other cold, flu or virus. Will people catch it and die? Sure. Could one of them be one of my family members? Sure. Do they run that same risk every single flu season? Absolutely. Are they statistically more likely to die in a car crash on the way to the Dr? Yes they are

So why the government crackdown and stay at home orders etc? Why are they shutting down businesses that remained open every single flu season in the past?

The issue is, quite simply, the greatest expansion of government power in history, in the guise of public safety, which is literally destroying what was a vibrant economy. And the fix to the issue that they caused is to print more money which will only serve to increase inflation and hurt out economy further in the long run.
 
I think that this is worse than the seasonal flu. With everything we”re doing we had over 1,000 deaths yesterday in the US, that’s gotta be more than we had from the seasonal flu, and we’re still ramping up.

Is the attempted fix worse than the disease, probably, but we are an emotional species and becoming more so every year.
 
JimB said:
I think that this is worse than the seasonal flu. With everything we”re doing we had over 1,000 deaths yesterday in the US, that’s gotta be more than we had from the seasonal flu, and we’re still ramping up.

Is the attempted fix worse than the disease, probably, but we are an emotional species and becoming more so every year.
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Sadly Half the people would’ve probably died whether they had caught COVID-19 or not
 
charliesgrave said:
Let's see some data backing up your opinion.
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The CDC estimates that we will have between 24,000 and 62,000 deaths from the flu just this year.

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/preliminary-in-season-estimates.htm

80,000 people died from the flu in 2018

https://www.statnews.com/2018/09/26/cdc-us-flu-deaths-winter/

On average, 12,000 to 56,000 people die from the flu every year in the US.

The main flu season is December - February. That's 90 days.

80,000 deaths last year gives us an average of 888 deaths per day in the flu season.

Granted last year was the worst death rate in 40 years. Which means 40 years ago it was higher so this isn't new.

But lets take 50,000 deaths. That's 555 deaths per day during flu season as an average.
 
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charliesgrave said:
That doesn't jive with what the CDC has actually published.
https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/2018-2019.html

I assume they're talking about the 2017-2018 season due to the fact the article was published during 2018. Flu deaths that season are estimated at 61,000, not 80,000.
https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/2017-2018.htm

Heck, maybe they really mean 2016-2017? Nope. 38,000 deaths.
https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/2016-2017.html
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Honestly not worth my time to argue about it and play link tag with you.

If you believe this is a plague of biblical proportions and the government isn’t behaving in a tyrannical fashion I’m certainly not going to change your mind.

I’ve got to go to work every day and trudge through landfill slime filled with every disease known to man.

I’m essential. Hurray for me.
 
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charliesgrave said:
Biblical proportions? Hardly. See the 1918 pandemic. As you'll recall from history, back then the federal government did nothing with stellar results.

But if you think this is the same thing as the flu, suggest you look into incubation periods, virus particle size, airborne vs droplet spread, persistence on surfaces and in air for starters.
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So washing your hands, cleaning your home and practicing good hygiene won't significantly lessen your chances of getting it?

Government shutting down businesses, forcing people to stay at home, placing curfews, threatening to call up the national guard and charging people who decide, on their own, to gather peaceably in groups larger than the government has deemed appropriate with misdemeanors is the answer?
 
Chdamn said:
The issue isn't cold and calculating vs close and personal. The issue isn't a pandemic. As many of us have said and continue to say, the issue is the overreaction of the government and the lunacy of the masses.

This virus is, at worst, as deadly and as contagious as the flu. All year long, not just during flu season, I wash my hands before touching my face and before I eat. If I have to sneeze I do so away from others if, at all possible, and if not I make sure to contain it and then wash my hands.

If I have a fever I stay home. If it doesn't go away with self treatment or runs high I go to the Dr. I sleep in the spare bedroom so I don't get my wife sick. I most assuredly stay away from the elderly and children if I have a fever.

And I would suggest that most people behave in the same fashion.

Simply practicing good hygiene is just as effective at preventing this illness as any other cold, flu or virus. Will people catch it and die? Sure. Could one of them be one of my family members? Sure. Do they run that same risk every single flu season? Absolutely. Are they statistically more likely to die in a car crash on the way to the Dr? Yes they are

So why the government crackdown and stay at home orders etc? Why are they shutting down businesses that remained open every single flu season in the past?

The issue is, quite simply, the greatest expansion of government power in history, in the guise of public safety, which is literally destroying what was a vibrant economy. And the fix to the issue that they caused is to print more money which will only serve to increase inflation and hurt out economy further in the long run.
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The 'why' is to prevent an Italy or Spain; or probably more realistic, to prevent the rest of the country from turning in NYC, New Orleans, and a few other US cities where the volume is outstripping the resources. The flu has a wider frequency cycle; that is, today 1, tomorrow 2, next day three. COVID is one today, two tomorrow, 4 the days after.

That's the 'why' without touching the issue of whether the government should/shouldn't do it; that's a whole 'nother debate.
 
One thing I think some are missing is that Covid didn’t replace the regular flu, it’s in addition to the regular flu. So now healthcare is having to deal with two “flus” that are both deadly, both contagious, and both putting pressure on the healthcare system.

So I agree that this is becoming a major government power grab, I also think it is far more deadly of an issue than many want to believe it is because it hasn’t directly impacted them physically.


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B00ger said:
One thing I think some are missing is that Covid didn’t replace the regular flu, it’s in addition to the regular flu. So now healthcare is having to deal with two “flus” that are both deadly, both contagious, and both putting pressure on the healthcare system.

So I agree that this is becoming a major government power grab, I also think it is far more deadly of an issue than many want to believe it is because it hasn’t directly impacted them physically.
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Very good first point. I had not thought of the impact of both the flu and this at the same time as an issue on the health care system.

As to the second point, it may turn out to be a much bigger deal than it appears so far. There seems to be some emerging evidence that the death rate may be higher than first reported. That in itself would make this a larger threat than the flu which has a relatively low death rate percentage wise.

But no matter the level of the threat, I can not be in support of the government violating the very first amendment. Not to mention absolutely destroying almost every non essential small business in the country. All in the guise of safety.

This is not directed at you, I just cannot believe that people on this forum that utter the quote regularly that those that would sacrifice liberty for........etc when the second is under attack have no issue with what is going on right now.

We are sacrificing liberty for the "public good" en masse.
 
Chdamn said:
Very good first point. I had not thought of the impact of both the flu and this at the same time as an issue on the health care system.

As to the second point, it may turn out to be a much bigger deal than it appears so far. There seems to be some emerging evidence that the death rate may be higher than first reported. That in itself would make this a larger threat than the flu which has a relatively low death rate percentage wise.

But no matter the level of the threat, I can not be in support of the government violating the very first amendment. Not to mention absolutely destroying almost every non essential small business in the country. All in the guise of safety.

This is not directed at you, I just cannot believe that people on this forum that utter the quote regularly that those that would sacrifice liberty for........etc when the second is under attack have no issue with what is going on right now.

We are sacrificing liberty for the "public good" en masse.
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All jobs are Essential to keep our economy strong
 
Chdamn said:
The issue isn't cold and calculating vs close and personal. The issue isn't a pandemic. As many of us have said and continue to say, the issue is the overreaction of the government and the lunacy of the masses.

This virus is, at worst, as deadly and as contagious as the flu. All year long, not just during flu season, I wash my hands before touching my face and before I eat. If I have to sneeze I do so away from others if, at all possible, and if not I make sure to contain it and then wash my hands.

If I have a fever I stay home. If it doesn't go away with self treatment or runs high I go to the Dr. I sleep in the spare bedroom so I don't get my wife sick. I most assuredly stay away from the elderly and children if I have a fever.

And I would suggest that most people behave in the same fashion.

Simply practicing good hygiene is just as effective at preventing this illness as any other cold, flu or virus. Will people catch it and die? Sure. Could one of them be one of my family members? Sure. Do they run that same risk every single flu season? Absolutely. Are they statistically more likely to die in a car crash on the way to the Dr? Yes they are

So why the government crackdown and stay at home orders etc? Why are they shutting down businesses that remained open every single flu season in the past?

The issue is, quite simply, the greatest expansion of government power in history, in the guise of public safety, which is literally destroying what was a vibrant economy. And the fix to the issue that they caused is to print more money which will only serve to increase inflation and hurt out economy further in the long run.
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Amen. And 10,000,000 fellow americans have applied for unemployment in just the last two weeks. We have another miserable 30 days ahead of us.....and beyond that.....
 
Chdamn said:
Very good first point. I had not thought of the impact of both the flu and this at the same time as an issue on the health care system.

As to the second point, it may turn out to be a much bigger deal than it appears so far. There seems to be some emerging evidence that the death rate may be higher than first reported. That in itself would make this a larger threat than the flu which has a relatively low death rate percentage wise.

But no matter the level of the threat, I can not be in support of the government violating the very first amendment. Not to mention absolutely destroying almost every non essential small business in the country. All in the guise of safety.

This is not directed at you, I just cannot believe that people on this forum that utter the quote regularly that those that would sacrifice liberty for........etc when the second is under attack have no issue with what is going on right now.

We are sacrificing liberty for the "public good" en masse.
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I don’t take offense at all because I don’t think it’s directly focused towards me. I am somewhere in the middle right where I openly agree with some of the recommendations the government has put out, and strongly oppose others. I’ve never been nearly as libertarian as many here.

I also find issue with people who can quote chapter and verse of all self defense statistics, why the 2nd is vital, recite case after case that shows data that supports the 2nd and shun the use of “feelings” to discuss firearms policy, can suddenly disbelieve any expert on the virus, it’s impact, ignore the data of infections/death rate because “they just don’t feel it’s that big a deal and we are being lied to.” Accepting facts as fact only when it supports ones preconceived beliefs is ignorance on display.


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Chdamn said:
Very good first point. I had not thought of the impact of both the flu and this at the same time as an issue on the health care system.

As to the second point, it may turn out to be a much bigger deal than it appears so far. There seems to be some emerging evidence that the death rate may be higher than first reported. That in itself would make this a larger threat than the flu which has a relatively low death rate percentage wise.

But no matter the level of the threat, I can not be in support of the government violating the very first amendment. Not to mention absolutely destroying almost every non essential small business in the country. All in the guise of safety.

This is not directed at you, I just cannot believe that people on this forum that utter the quote regularly that those that would sacrifice liberty for........etc when the second is under attack have no issue with what is going on right now.

We are sacrificing liberty for the "public good" en masse.
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Have you considered that the economic damage from controlled destruction might be less than from a natural destruction. Think about restaurants, you hit say 500,000 cases and 20,000 deaths in NYC, exactly who is going to be eating out? Surely not enough people, so the businesses start to fail in a way that makes recovery a lot harder. You end up in the same place, but with folk having wasted resources trying to hang on through the thing, people choosing to work while sick and spreading the thing, and no path for economic recovery. It’s a textbook case of the prisoner’s dilema.

All that said, and making the HUGE assumption that the government is making the best possible decisions, I’m still not happy about the level of control they are taking.
 
SCshooter57 said:
Amen. And 10,000,000 fellow americans have applied for unemployment in just the last two weeks. We have another miserable 30 days ahead of us.....and beyond that.....
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i was just thinking this morning that unemployment is at least partially funded through insurance premiums collected from employers. Each company’s rate is based on their claim history. So are any surviving small businesses going to get hammered with a huge cost increase next year? Haven’t seen this addressed yet.
 
If the government can decide whether or not your business can be open by the stroke of a pen that is crossing a line to saying all business are nationalized.

Add to that the government stopping people from gathering peaceably, shutting down peoples ability to purchase weapons and putting curfews in place while they print money to give to the proletariat and we have communism just with extra steps.

Meanwhile, since the state troopers have been told not to weigh trucks, depriving them of a lot of money from those massive tickets, they instead are pulling over every truck that they can under, you guessed it, the guise of safety checks and writing tickets for any small infraction they can possible dig up. Let that truck go and pull over the next one that comes by.
 
JimB said:
i was just thinking this morning that unemployment is at least partially funded through insurance premiums collected from employers. Each company’s rate is based on their claim history. So are any surviving small businesses going to get hammered with a huge cost increase next year? Haven’t seen this addressed yet.
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Just this hour got a letter from the Gubmint. They gonna pay me to do Nothing. What a country!!!:(
 
JimB said:
Have you considered that the economic damage from controlled destruction might be less than from a natural destruction. Think about restaurants, you hit say 500,000 cases and 20,000 deaths in NYC, exactly who is going to be eating out? Surely not enough people, so the businesses start to fail in a way that makes recovery a lot harder. You end up in the same place, but with folk having wasted resources trying to hang on through the thing, people choosing to work while sick and spreading the thing, and no path for economic recovery. It’s a textbook case of the prisoner’s dilema.

All that said, and making the HUGE assumption that the government is making the best possible decisions, I’m still not happy about the level of control they are taking.
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I'm honestly not versed enough to be able to answer that question. The only thing I can say is that at least in that scenario the owners would be free to decide their own destiny and not have it decided for them.
 
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