Anyone else tired of No Knock Warrants?

Sitting here thinking about the possibility of police pounding on my door at night.....

I live in a fairly large home....

IF....

...the police show up in cruisers with lights flashing and knock on my door and announce and wait. As I emerge from the back hallway leading to our bedroom, I should be able to see blue lights through the front windows and door and be able to grasp that it's the police and lay down the rifle and open the door.

IF....

The police yell "police" while crashing my front door we would likely encounter each other in the hall and more than likely there will be shots fired from at least one side of the equation.

From my bedroom I'd be able to hear the crash and likely someone shouting, but not likely well enough to understand what's being said. Especially as I'm going from asleep to 60 with a side of adrenaline.


Yeah, no good could come from that second scenario....
 
Climberman said:
..........If the goal is to apprehend someone, why not surround the house. Wake them up, from outside with a megaphone or something and wait for them to surrender? It sounds safer for all involved rather than a forced ambush fight. Or add surveillance and pick up the suspect once they leave the house?
Click to expand...

That would be too easy.
 
I recall one No Knock, they show up in the night, three SUV in driveway and not one officer bothers to run the plates. They had the wrong house, go in the back door, shoot the dog dead and also shot the homeowner and almost killed his wife. Another one they use a flash bang, it landed in the crib of an infant, serious injuries to the child. Again wrong house.
 
Last edited:
Button Pusher said:
I recall one No Knock, they show up in the night, three SUV in driveway and not one officer bothers to run the plates. They had the wrong house, go in the back door, shoot the dog dead and also shot the homeowner and almost killed his wife. Another one they use a flash bang, it landed in the crib of an infant, serious injuries to the child. Again wrong house.
Click to expand...
Seems like you should have to have a certain amount of intelligence to be a police officer.
 
Button Pusher said:
Another one they use a flash bang, it landed in the crib of an infant, serious injuries to the child. Again wrong house.
Click to expand...

I read an updated story on that one recently (I read it recently but it was from several years ago even). The family amassed almost a million dollars in medical debt due to the injuries to the child. They eventually got a settlement from the various county and city governments whose police forces were involved in the raid, but that kid went through multiple reconstructive surgeries to repair burn/explosion wounds in his face and torso. Incredibly sad situation.
 
Chuckman said:
I try to apply the same argument to any profession: if a doctor fouls up and kills his patient, is that reflective of the doctor, or the profession? Or does the institution bear some culpability because of a bad policy? It could be a number of things, but rarely do I think "well, I am not ever going trust surgeons because someone got hydraulic fluid during surgery."

In a group following orders, if they screw up and followed policy, yes, it's an indictment on the cop, all his brethren, and the department. But if a cop screwed up by following an unlawful order or being outside the box, or doing something stupid, then that person needs to be hammered, not the whole department.
Click to expand...


Again, I'm free to pick my doctor, not my cop. They must be held accountable as a group entrusted with the protection of our God given rights and our very lives.
 
Every single individual from the person that wrote down the wrong address or read the correct address incorrectly, down to the last guy that stepped foot on the innocent victim's property during that illegal raid should get the exact same maximum prison sentence allowed by law that would be applied to any one of us had we broke into a home and murdered someone.

Like someone mentioned above, someone coming through my door or window can scream "Police!" until their heart's content but that's not going to stop a vicious response and I can guarantee I won't be the only person leaving the premises in a body bag.
 
Last edited:
Goofyfoot2001 said:
Again, I'm free to pick my doctor, not my cop. They must be held accountable as a group entrusted with the protection of our God given rights and our very lives.
Click to expand...
I think, at least part of, the problem is that the accountability chain is like pushing a rope. You have paid, career "enforcers" who are largely beholden to some executive manager, like a mayor or governor who in turn may be held somewhat accountable by a legislative body that is in turn accountable to the people, but typically after a lengthy delay. The actions of these "enforcers" are likewise heavily shielded by the members of the chain I just described, but through things like "qualified immunity" and liability being available only through a massive legal (court) bureaucracy and paid for at the expense of the People.

I keep coming back to the concept that the founding fathers did not intend "justice" to be a function of government and that they would have been opposed to the notion of government law enforcement as demonstrated by the prohibitions in the BOR and other documents and this view is supported by the idea that until the outbreak of hostilities the British Redcoats were largely government law enforcement. For that matter, we didn't even have or need govt "police" in this country until around 1860. Consequently, I keep going back to the notion of colonial law and how matters would have been handled in that if you felt "wronged" that this could be taken up among the people of the community, evidence could be weighed, warrants issued and then people with the help of the local constabulary enact said warrants to make arrests and then hold trial with justice to be carried out immediately. For that matter, I suspect that jail wasn't largely used as a form of long term punishment but rather as a temporary holding and penitentiaries were probably rare or nonexistent.

In a lot of ways, this is similar to the model of policing we have today but we have removed the notion of their being a paid, professional enforcer. Instead the duty to falls to the People themselves, rather than a bureaucratic entity that desires control over the people, and it is also a temporary function.

Yes, one can point to the problems of the later periods of this era, like the Pinkertons, but that too is taking us into the realm of paid, professional, enforcers, but that doesn't mean that government is the solution. Government is almost never a good solution. Why the hell would anyone think that it would be the correct solution for protecting the people?
 
  • Like
Reactions: JT
Absolutely no excuse, everyone of them should be fired, charged and convicted!!!! No reason for this kind of mistake, none, no amount of apology is acceptable. They should be made an example of. Why was the boyfriend arrested? He was protecting his home, the cops had no reason or business in his house. They kick his door in and say my bad, but he wasn't supposed to act? He was within his right to shoot back and try to protect himself and her. They made the mistake and he was locked up for it, they don't have enough justice that can be served for this poor family.
 
Last edited:
Firemedic54 said:
Why was the boyfriend arrested? He was protecting his home, the cops had no reason or business in his house. They kick his door in and say my bad, but he wasn't supposed to act? He was within his right to shoot back and try to protect himself and her. They made the mistake and he was locked up for it, they don't have enough justice that can be served for this poor family.
Click to expand...

Hopefully he gets some good legal representation that gets those bogus charges thrown out. At one point however, he must have realized they were actual police and disengaged. He shouldn't have in my opinion. Unlike many other folks who say the old saying, "Better to be judged by twelve than carried by six", I tend to think the opposite. It's going to take either of two things to get this stuff to stop: 1) the perpetrators responsible for these illegal home invasions are sentenced and put away for the rest of their lives, or 2) A substantial number of them are eliminated on site during their illegal home invasion.

I don't see any other solution at this point. I'm not going to risk the lives of my family or myself by trusting that it is actually the police illegally entering my home because of ignorance and once I'm actively engaged, I'm not stopping and relying on the system to allow me to continue on with a normal life. As we can see in this case, they committed a terrible crime and a man is getting charged with felony counts for defending himself and his now dead girlfriend.............. if of course, the story is as presented by the media.
 
Last edited:
The boyfriend needs that attorney that represented the guy in Texas that was found not guilty for defending his home in an incident that was eerily similar.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
 
If they would not make everything except sucking air and paying taxes against the law then there would be less to no need for warrants at all. The wars against this and that just make for stupid actions against supposedly "free" citizens.

Home of the free if you're brave enough......
 
Zbizzle911 said:
So what does announcing yourself as the police have to do with it? I know plenty of times thugs have knocked announced they’re the police and then robbed or killed people inside. I would’ve done the same thing if someone busted in my house no matter what they were saying. This is just plain ridiculous! There has to be accountability when this stuff happens.
Click to expand...
It always seems unpopular when I say it... but if settlements had to be paid out of the officer retirement fund, these "little mistakes" would stop happening overnight.

Wahoo95 said:
That's another issue....rarely do these teams wear body cams.
Click to expand...
nobody likes monday morning quarterbacks...
 
I was the victim of a no knock search but I wasn't home at the time. Happened years ago, wife and I were having one of those counseling sessions with the preacher that you do just before you get married.

We lived in apartment 751-B, the guy they wanted was in 751-A. They came in my place though a window and kinda made a mess of thing looking for dope that wasn't there.

.
 
Gator said:
I was the victim of a no knock search but I wasn't home at the time. Happened years ago, wife and I were having one of those counseling sessions with the preacher that you do just before you get married.

We lived in apartment 751-B, the guy they wanted was in 751-A. They came in my place though a window and kinda made a mess of thing looking for dope that wasn't there.

.
Click to expand...

If a tree falls in a forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?

If no one was home how do you know it was a no knock warrant?
 
Last edited:
The boyfriend being charged with attempted murder of a police officer? The voters in that county need to remember that come DA election time.
 
Cowboy said:
If a tree falls in a forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?

If no one was home how do you know it was a no knock warrant?
Click to expand...

They left a copy of it on the dining room table.

Man I worked for at the time overheard me talking about this the next day and it irritated him quite a bit. He had his company attorney call somebody "downtown" to follow up. He verified they went to the wrong address. I was working my first full time job out of college, I was impressed and very appreciative that someone would go to bat for me without me asking. I still have much respect for that man today.

.
 
Gator said:
They left a copy of it on the dining room table.

Man I worked for at the time overheard me talking about this the next day and it irritated him quite a bit. He had his company attorney call somebody "downtown" to follow up. He verified they went to the wrong address. I was working my first full time job out of college, I was impressed and very appreciative that someone would go to bat for me without me asking. I still have much respect for that man today.

.
Click to expand...

Ok folks let's get the understanding of what entails a no knock warrant.

A "NO" knock Warrant is when they do not actually knock and announce before entering the residence.

It does not mean you weren't home when it was served or it was a wrong address. In your instance you would have no idea if they announced because nobody was home. A search warrant, Any search Warrant allows the department to breach the residence. The simple act of knocking on the door and screaming POLICE while entering the residence would make it a regular search warrant.

In N.C. no state judicial official has the authority to pre authorize a NO knock search warrant. instead the authority is given to the officers on scene to determine the safest way to execute the search warrant.
 
Cowboy said:
In N.C. no state judicial official has the authority to pre authorize a NO knock search warrant. instead the authority is given to the officers on scene to determine the safest way to execute the search warrant.
Click to expand...

If I understand what you are saying, then in NC any warrant can be executed as a no-knock, at the discretion of the officers on the scene? If so, what does the officer rely on to make that decision? If it is some policy document written by the police, then I don't see a good system of checks and balances there.
 
MostWanted said:
If I understand what you are saying, then in NC any warrant can be executed as a no-knock, at the discretion of the officers on the scene? If so, what does the officer rely on to make that decision? If it is some policy document written by the police, then I don't see a good system of checks and balances there.
Click to expand...
I am not 100% but there is a book arrest,search, and serzuire by Bob Farb it is pretty much the gold standard of everything.
 
Last edited:
Goofyfoot2001 said:
Again, I'm free to pick my doctor, not my cop. They must be held accountable as a group entrusted with the protection of our God given rights and our very lives.
Click to expand...

Sure, you can pick your cop: move to a different jurisdiction.

But for one group you say one bad apple spoils the bunch; but the other, you can choose the apple out of the bunch. I am saying, don't throw out the entire bunch because of a bad apple.

But absolutely hold them accountable. Bad cops, like bad doctors, must go, and must have punitive action accordingly.
 
@Cowboy thanks for posting that. We all have our opinions on things but it’s great when someone can provide clarity using the type of information you posted here.
 
MostWanted said:
@Cowboy thanks for posting that. We all have our opinions on things but it’s great when someone can provide clarity using the type of information you posted here.
Click to expand...

Yeah there is literally a book on the entire N.C. search,Arrest and seizure laws by Bob (Robert) Farb. Just an FYI he is probably the single most boring instructor I have ever met in my entire life. Smartest person I probably ever met period. He is mostly retired now and the school of government has some youngish professors.
 
Last edited:
The police do not hold each accountable. In just about all the videos of an LEO doing something wrong, there was a second LEO just standing by letting LEO do citizens wrong.
 
Cowboy said:
Ok folks let's get the understanding of what entails a no knock warrant.

A "NO" knock Warrant is when they do not actually knock and announce before entering the residence.

It does not mean you weren't home when it was served or it was a wrong address. In your instance you would have no idea if they announced because nobody was home. A search warrant, Any search Warrant allows the department to breach the residence. The simple act of knocking on the door and screaming POLICE while entering the residence would make it a regular search warrant.

In N.C. no state judicial official has the authority to pre authorize a NO knock search warrant. instead the authority is given to the officers on scene to determine the safest way to execute the search warrant.
Click to expand...


I have no doubt all the above is 100% accurate. I'm no law scholar, all I know is that in 1974 the phrase that came back to me through the company attorney was " no knock". I'd never heard of it at that time. I guess the lawyer was an idiot.

.

.
 
charliesgrave said:
The FOP couldn't help some parting shots to make him look like villain.
Click to expand...
The statement was:
“Judge Stevens’ actions are a slap in the face to everyone wearing a badge,” FOP President Ryan Nichols wrote in the statement. Nichols is not the only one lashing out.
Click to expand...
Honestly, I’ve reached the point where I see govt. as so corrupt, power hungry, and illegitimate that I wouldn’t even recognize their warrants. They think they should get a pass on home invasion and murder just because they wear a cheap alloy toy shield. My answer is NO.

As Covid 19 is showing, some think they have abject “authority” over people. They’re forgetting the lessons of 1775.
 
Last edited:
charliesgrave said:
Worse than that..

"Yesterday, Judge Olu Stevens, released inmate Kenneth Walker on home incarceration. The Fraternal Order of Police condemns this Judge’s actions. Just one week ago, this man violently attacked our officers and was charged with attempted murder after shooting a sergeant! Not only is he a threat to the men and women of law enforcement, but he also poses a significant danger to the community we protect!

LMPD officers put their lives on the line everyday protecting the citizens of this community. Judge Stevens’ actions are a slap in the face to everyone wearing a badge. His actions place our community at risk of further violence! While we understand some of the current needs of our local corrections facility, we must sound the alarm now! Home incarceration was not designed for the most violent offenders! I call on the public to condemn the actions of Judge Olu Stevens and support your Louisville Metro Police Officers and protect your community."

Add slander to the lawsuit that's no doubt coming.
Click to expand...

What an absolute disgusting display of "how dare you not kiss the ring" an innocent man protecting himself and his girlfriend, in his castle. Innocent girlfriend gunned down for nothing, and they have the audacity to make a statement like this instead of: "We completely screwed this one up, we are so sorry for what happened and will make sure nothing like this ever happens again". Nope they took the low road and continue to try to make a criminal out of everyone not wearing the badge.
 
Chuckman said:
Sure, you can pick your cop: move to a different jurisdiction.

But for one group you say one bad apple spoils the bunch; but the other, you can choose the apple out of the bunch. I am saying, don't throw out the entire bunch because of a bad apple.

But absolutely hold them accountable. Bad cops, like bad doctors, must go, and must have punitive action accordingly.
Click to expand...
How come I can film and record a cop doing his job but I can't do the same at the hospital or Dr's office?
 
SPST said:
How come I can film and record a cop doing his job but I can't do the same at the hospital or Dr's office?
Click to expand...

I would 'think' they are different.

Hospital or Dr's office: Private companies under public regulations
Cop out in public: Yeah... That's it.
 
And, I do believe that anyone who is the victim of police being at the wrong address should not be charged for any self defense measures that they may take. The police should be fully liable for any damages, injuries or deaths.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom