Choices, choices. .357 revolver or 10mm 1911.

357 Smith & Wesson 686 SSR, RIA Tac II in 10mm, CZ P-09, or safe ? Help me decide

  • 357 Smith & Wesson 686 SSR

    Votes: 36 70.6%
  • RIA Tac II in 10mm

    Votes: 8 15.7%
  • CZ P-09

    Votes: 3 5.9%
  • Safe

    Votes: 4 7.8%

  • Total voters
    51
  • Poll closed .
If the choice had been a K frame .357 Magnum, I would say .357 Magnum. But, since it's an L frame, I'll still say .357 Magnum. You said that you reload so, like @Etruett said upstream, you can shoot full house .357 loads or puny little .38 Special target loads. You can do almost anything with a .357 Magnum.
 
IMG_20200516_124007184.jpg The clan has spoken:D


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A word about 1911s in 10mm. Bear with me.

The 1911 is a fine pistol, but it's not an exceptionally strong or durable pistol. The "Big Ten" is a bit much for it...and it ain't because of the pressure.

Those tiny radial locking lugs are the weak points. They soak up all that recoil impetus...recoil impetus that a 230 grain bullet at 800 fps under 20,000 psi delivers. It'll handle that 'til hell freezes.

Those lugs only engage horizontally between 10 and 2. Even if...IF...all three lugs are bearing an equal share of the brunt, that's not a lot of surface area. Only rarely are all three engaging on an out of box pistol. If you're lucky, you'll get two and if you're very lucky, one of them will be the first lug...the one without a slot behind it and the one that (hopefully) engages to full depth.

A quick story.

An acquaintance bought himself a new Ed Brown 5-inch pistol. Don't recall the model offhand. He was having a little feed/return to battery issue with it. Intermittent, but aggravating.

He called Ed. Talked to Ed. Predictably, the subject of ammunition came up.

Guy tells Ed: Handloads. 200 grain Hornady XTP with enough Unique to drive it across the skyscreens at 950 fps.

Ed's response was immediate.

"Whoa, man! You're gonna break my gun!"

With that, I'll leave you to draw your own conclusions.

If you must have a 10, get it in a Glock. The single wide lug is about 20% more durable than an off the rack 1911.
 
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A word about 1911s in 10mm. Bear with me.

The 1911 is a fine pistol, but it's not an exceptionally strong or durable pistol. The "Big Ten" is a bit much for it...and it ain't because of the pressure.

Those tiny radial locking lugs are the weak points. They soak up all that recoil impetus...recoil impetus that a 230 grain bullet at 800 fps under 20,000 psi delivers. It'll handle that 'til hell freezes.

Those lugs only engage horizontally between 10 and 2. Even if...IF...all three lugs are bearing an equal share of the brunt, that's not a lot of surface area. Only rarely are all three engaging on an out of box pistol. If you're lucky, you'll get two and if you're very lucky, one of them will be the first lug...the one without a slot behind it and the one that (hopefully) engages to full depth.

A quick story.

An acquaintance bought himself a new Ed Brown 5-inch pistol. Don't recall the model offhand. He was having a little feed/return to battery issue with it. Intermittent, but aggravating.

He called Ed. Talked to Ed. Predictably, the subject of ammunition came up.

Guy tells Ed: Handloads. 200 grain Hornady XTP with enough Unique to drive it across the skyscreens at 950 fps.

Ed's response was immediate.

"Whoa, man! You're gonna break my gun!"

With that, I'll leave you to draw your own conclusions.

If you must have a 10, get it in a Glock. The single wide lug is about 20% more durable than an off the rack 1911.
Where would the Sig P220 fall into the strength spectrum?
 
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Like the Glock, the Sig has a single wide, massive locking lug without a slot behind it, so it should be comparable to the Glock.

Just keep in mind that it will start to deform and set back...the slide lug wall will deform and set forward with enough use...with a corresponding increase in headspace. The higher the recoil forces generated, the more rapidly this deformation will occur...so there's no such thing as a free lunch.
The Glock and the sig will just take the pounding a little longer than the 1911.
 
Like the Glock, the Sig has a single wide, massive locking lug without a slot behind it, so it should be comparable to the Glock.

Just keep in mind that it will start to deform and set back...the slide lug wall will deform and set forward with enough use...with a corresponding increase in headspace. The higher the recoil forces generated, the more rapidly this deformation will occur...so there's no such thing as a free lunch.
The Glock and the sig will just take the pounding a little longer than the 1911.
Makes sense. As seldom as I make it to the range I may just have to take my chances.
 
A word about 1911s in 10mm. Bear with me.

The 1911 is a fine pistol, but it's not an exceptionally strong or durable pistol. The "Big Ten" is a bit much for it...and it ain't because of the pressure.

Those tiny radial locking lugs are the weak points. They soak up all that recoil impetus...recoil impetus that a 230 grain bullet at 800 fps under 20,000 psi delivers. It'll handle that 'til hell freezes.

Those lugs only engage horizontally between 10 and 2. Even if...IF...all three lugs are bearing an equal share of the brunt, that's not a lot of surface area. Only rarely are all three engaging on an out of box pistol. If you're lucky, you'll get two and if you're very lucky, one of them will be the first lug...the one without a slot behind it and the one that (hopefully) engages to full depth.

A quick story.

An acquaintance bought himself a new Ed Brown 5-inch pistol. Don't recall the model offhand. He was having a little feed/return to battery issue with it. Intermittent, but aggravating.

He called Ed. Talked to Ed. Predictably, the subject of ammunition came up.

Guy tells Ed: Handloads. 200 grain Hornady XTP with enough Unique to drive it across the skyscreens at 950 fps.

Ed's response was immediate.

"Whoa, man! You're gonna break my gun!"

With that, I'll leave you to draw your own conclusions.

If you must have a 10, get it in a Glock. The single wide lug is about 20% more durable than an off the rack 1911.
I can tell you that the 10mm in g-lock is the only handgun I have had multiple kabooms on. After the second trip back to glock for the exact same issue with different factory self defense 10mm ammo I now understood VERY clearly that 10mm is not a round for the unsupported chamber of the Glock. warm 10mm loads seems like it might need a revolver to be safe after reading your excellent write up on 10mm not being used in a 1911 frame and the problems of the locking lugs not engaging on all 3. Just for reference I was using factory loads in my glock and not my reloads. I was reloading it lighter than 40 S&W after the first kaboom and was just going through testing my SD ammo (Federal HST) when it came apart the second time.
 
The kabooms are more of a headspace issue. That always comes into play, regardless of caliber. The 10mm is just less forgiving of a headspace problem than .45 Auto.

The 10's SAAMI maximum pressure is only 3,000 psi above that of the 9mm Parabellum. Pistols are rotinely proofed at 25% above maximum...so your particular problem may have been with bad ammunition.
 
The kabooms are more of a headspace issue. That always comes into play, regardless of caliber. The 10mm is just less forgiving of a headspace problem than .45 Auto.

The 10's SAAMI maximum pressure is only 3,000 psi above that of the 9mm Parabellum. Pistols are rotinely proofed at 25% above maximum...so your particular problem may have been with bad ammunition.
The ammo in question was Hornady critical defense and Federal HST. I guess I would be less surprised if it were high powered buffalo bore rounds or some crap reloads from the local gun show. I can absolutely with out a doubt tell you that my days of shooting 10mm in a glock or even a 1911 are over. I have had 2 kabooms in my 30+ years of shooting pistols. Both were with glock 10mm pistols using good quality ammo. I don't make a habit of shooting expensive SD ammo through my pistols for target practice but I do feel a need to function test the ammo I carry with from time to time. I am grateful that these issues did not happen when I needed that pistol the most. I struggle to blame the ammo when a google search for 10mm glock kaboom delivers many similar experiences.
 
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Nice choice on the S&W.

But...


2DB9FBD4-9D52-45AD-9BA4-FADA788DA4BA.jpeg

Stick with me on the logic...You’ve been a good boy for a year in which you’d normally bought one other pistol so right there you owe yourself another pistol. Then you may have qualified for Gubmint money recently (min $1200) so it’s your patriotic duty to buy another gun with that.

In Summary:
Good self-restraint gun: 1
Gun you would’ve bought: 1
Gubmint money gun: 1
____________________
Subtotal 3
S&W you bought: -1
____________________
Guns to go buy now: 2


Keep in mind these are numbers are the BARE minimum I advise you to buy by my analysis.
Trust me, I’m was Pre-med. Or Pre-Law. Whatever.
 
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Nice choice on the S&W.

But...


View attachment 214503

Fair assessment. But when Uncle sugars check comes in. He's buying me a safe;)

Stick with me on the logic...You’ve been a good boy for a year in which you’d normally bought one other pistol so right there you owe yourself another pistol. Then you may have qualified for Gubmint money recently (min $1200) so it’s your patriotic duty to buy another gun with that.

In Summary:
Good self-restraint gun: 1
Gun you would’ve bought: 1
Gubmint money gun: 1
____________________
Subtotal 3
S&W you bought: -1
____________________
Guns to go buy now: 2


Keep in mind these are numbers are the BARE minimum I advise you to buy by my analysis.
Trust me, I’m was Pre-med. Or Pre-Law. Whatever.

Good assessment. If/when Uncle sugars check rolls in. He is buying me a bigger safe;)
 
Like brother Billy said get all of them. you need a safe unless you have no other guns and plan on carrying the gun 24/7.If you can only have 1, I personally would get the Smith. Ammo easier to get ,brass does not go flying away never to be seen again. For that reason I mainly shoot revolvers plus I shoot them better than jammamatics:eek:. It's all a personal preference. If everyone liked the same thing there would only be one thing. Then the choice would be easy.:)
 
Either the 686 or the CZ...... Only thing I dont like about the 686 is its a 4 inch barrel........about a 6 inch barrel is the perfect weight/balance/taking advantage of a magnum catridge for me.

1911's were meant to be 45acp.
 
Nice choice on the S&W.

But...


View attachment 214503

Stick with me on the logic...You’ve been a good boy for a year in which you’d normally bought one other pistol so right there you owe yourself another pistol. Then you may have qualified for Gubmint money recently (min $1200) so it’s your patriotic duty to buy another gun with that.

In Summary:
Good self-restraint gun: 1
Gun you would’ve bought: 1
Gubmint money gun: 1
____________________
Subtotal 3
S&W you bought: -1
____________________
Guns to go buy now: 2


Keep in mind these are numbers are the BARE minimum I advise you to buy by my analysis.
Trust me, I’m was Pre-med. Or Pre-Law. Whatever.

BigB6flyer for President!


Sent from my Star Trek Communicator using Tapatalk
 
The correct answer is always the revolver. I'm not interested in newer S&Ws, but have long said every man should own, at a minimum, a .45ACP 1911, a .357 revolver & some stripe of .22lr pistol.
I just recently got a 9mm Colt 1911 that needed a pretty thorough rebuild and also got a 22 revolver...the rest are glocks so I may not be quite measuring up.
 
You know without the pinned barrel and recessed chambers that thing could blow up Any Second;):p:p:D:D
I agree. I look at all of the dummies that bought a 500 magnum without a pinned barrel and roll the dice on their life every time they shoot! And lets not forget the real dummies that would dare to shoot any magnum round in a Taurus. God forbid someone being that stupid.
 
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