Harris Teeter manager sentenced in gun scheme

zuerjoha said:
I'm not asking that we all hold hands and sing kumbaya around the camp fire, but is asking for people to be good ambassadors of the second amendment on a forum open to the public too much to ask?
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Fair enough.

Is it fair to ask that we either identify everybody by race without being butthurt or we simply stop cherry picking when we identify race to suit our agenda?
 
zuerjoha said:
What's up with the blatant racism in this thread? People mixing up their CFF and StormFront bookmarks again? :mad:

If these kinda comments don't expand support for the second amendment then I don't know what will.
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You surely can't be referring to me taking up for this fellow human being. I'm trying to make up for all the wrong I've done in this world & sick & tired of the oppression my fellow man has put on these folks. Shame on you!
 
premise said:
Fair enough.

Is it fair to ask that we either identify everybody by race without being butthurt or we simply stop cherry picking when we identify race to suit our agenda?
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I agree that it's 100% dispicable when the media does that.

Back to the topic at hand -- I wonder.if he got flagged due to multiple handgun purchases? I've never had a dealer tell me when they filled one out for me, so maybe this guy was unaware of the form?
 
gunbelt said:
Is it too much to ask that the complainers support this forum instead of bitch & moan at every perceived indiscretion? Its always the same.
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Alright, I'm holding up my end of the deal.
 
zuerjoha said:
I agree that it's 100% dispicable when the media does that.

Back to the topic at hand -- I wonder.if he got flagged due to multiple handgun purchases? I've never had a dealer tell me when they filled one out for me, so maybe this guy was unaware of the form?
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I assure you the alphabet boys have a file on every 4473 ever filled out. They showed up at my house with a stake of mine during the I.O. Fiasco. For purchases not even related to buying Kits.
 
gunbelt said:
I assure you the alphabet boys have a file on every 4473 ever filled out. They showed up at my house with a stake of mine during the I.O. Fiasco. For purchases not even related to buying Kits.
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I have kin who works in a big gun shop and sometimes has to do file searches at the behest of the ATF. If they already had those records I don’t think they’d have to order those file searches.
 
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zuerjoha said:
I agree that it's 100% dispicable when the media does that.

Back to the topic at hand -- I wonder.if he got flagged due to multiple handgun purchases? I've never had a dealer tell me when they filled one out for me, so maybe this guy was unaware of the form?
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Someone I very much trust (not a "friend of a cousin's girlfriend's uncle" scenario) shared a story with me about his interactions with the ATF over a private sale conducted over a website because the seller had some affiliation with "the religion of peace". He said the ATF agent had an absolute tome of files based on his online activity.

As another member here is fond of saying, if they want your ass, they'll have your ass. If I had to guess, somebody or too many people putting Mr Shaw's name in the street was probably the main culprit.
 
I would think he got caught when the gun was tied to a violent crime or multiple felons guns were ran with his name on the initial purchase. The ATF doesn’t care how many guns you buy nor how many you sell until someone flags the gun.
 
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fieldgrade said:
I have kin who works in a big gun shop and sometimes has to do file searches at the behest of the ATF. If they already had those records I don’t think they’d have to order those file searches.
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The ones that were collected from a closed gun shops in KY were in my file. Probably don't keep everyones but folks with let's say a somewhat shady past (even though they were never convicted of anything felonious).
 
gunbelt said:
The ones that were collected from a closed gun shops in KY were in my file. Probably don't keep everyones but folks with let's say a somewhat shady past (even though they were never convicted of anything felonious).
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If a gun shops closes all those 4473s they had on file go to the ATF.
Or maybe that’s what you were saying.
 
After sipping some single malt and pondering a bit ...

They have him on 8 counts of false statements ... basically a Straw Purchase ... he lied on the 4473 about the guns were for his own possession.

It is reported in 6 years he bought 30 to 40 guns. It doesn’t say all headed north. It stated several were specifically Glocks so I’m pretty sure at least some were handguns. What about Federal Laws concern interstate transfer/sale of handguns? Why only the 8 counts of straw purchases and not interstate trafficking? This guy apparently has no other criminal violations in 37 years ... so why now? Some went to relatives in DC ... but doesn’t mention specific crimes committed with said firearms.

Somethings aren’t clear to me on just what his goals were here. He averaged 5 or 6 firearms per year and some did go to relatives. No specific crimes were directly reported to the firearms. What was he running guns to DC? Did he do it to sell to criminals for profit ... did he do it to help relatives and friends get a firearm to defend themselves in a city where it’s damn hard and expensive to get one ... somewhere in between? Yes, he confessed to at least straw purchases but just how far did he go ... a half-dozen guns a year average is not exactly a huge gun running operation. We’ll never know everything but this sure ain’t no Fast and Furious.
 
NCFubar said:
After sipping some single malt and pondering a bit ...

They have him on 8 counts of false statements ... basically a Straw Purchase ... he lied on the 4473 about the guns were for his own possession.

It is reported in 6 years he bought 30 to 40 guns. It doesn’t say all headed north. It stated several were specifically Glocks so I’m pretty sure at least some were handguns. What about Federal Laws concern interstate transfer/sale of handguns? Why only the 8 counts of straw purchases and not interstate trafficking? This guy apparently has no other criminal violations in 37 years ... so why now? Some went to relatives in DC ... but doesn’t mention specific crimes committed with said firearms.

Somethings aren’t clear to me on just what his goals were here. He averaged 5 or 6 firearms per year and some did go to relatives. No specific crimes were directly reported to the firearms. What was he running guns to DC? Did he do it to sell to criminals for profit ... did he do it to help relatives and friends get a firearm to defend themselves in a city where it’s damn hard and expensive to get one ... somewhere in between? Yes, he confessed to at least straw purchases but just how far did he go ... a half-dozen guns a year average is not exactly a huge gun running operation. We’ll never know everything but this sure ain’t no Fast and Furious.
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I have to agree with that.
 
NCFubar said:
After sipping some single malt and pondering a bit ...

They have him on 8 counts of false statements ... basically a Straw Purchase ... he lied on the 4473 about the guns were for his own possession.

It is reported in 6 years he bought 30 to 40 guns. It doesn’t say all headed north. It stated several were specifically Glocks so I’m pretty sure at least some were handguns. What about Federal Laws concern interstate transfer/sale of handguns? Why only the 8 counts of straw purchases and not interstate trafficking? This guy apparently has no other criminal violations in 37 years ... so why now? Some went to relatives in DC ... but doesn’t mention specific crimes committed with said firearms.

Somethings aren’t clear to me on just what his goals were here. He averaged 5 or 6 firearms per year and some did go to relatives. No specific crimes were directly reported to the firearms. What was he running guns to DC? Did he do it to sell to criminals for profit ... did he do it to help relatives and friends get a firearm to defend themselves in a city where it’s damn hard and expensive to get one ... somewhere in between? Yes, he confessed to at least straw purchases but just how far did he go ... a half-dozen guns a year average is not exactly a huge gun running operation. We’ll never know everything but this sure ain’t no Fast and Furious.
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From the DOJ press release:

An investigation was initiated by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) Washington Group II, following the receipt of information from local law enforcement regarding numerous recovered firearms in Washington, D.C., and Maryland, some of which had been used in crimes.

My guess is what did him in here is the numerous traces of crime guns back to his name. He gave or sold guns to folks in other states who did bad things. He likely took a plea deal by copping to the 8 counts of lying on the 4473. Prosecution gets their conviction and this guy avoids a trial where perhaps a gun trafficking charge may have been tacked on by a zealous prosecutor.
 
Button Pusher said:
Not hard at all to own a handgun in DC as long as you are not a felon and have a 10 round MD compliant firearm. http://www.realcoguns.com/dc.html
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Look at all the hoops they have to jump thru ... our PPP’s ain’t nothing. The paperwork behind it is basically a firearms registration database with some fees per firearms ... and then
spockrock said:
From the DOJ press release:

An investigation was initiated by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) Washington Group II, following the receipt of information from local law enforcement regarding numerous recovered firearms in Washington, D.C., and Maryland, some of which had been used in crimes.

My guess is what did him in here is the numerous traces of crime guns back to his name. He gave or sold guns to folks in other states who did bad things. He likely took a plea deal by copping to the 8 counts of lying on the 4473. Prosecution gets their conviction and this guy avoids a trial where perhaps a gun trafficking charge may have been tacked on by a zealous prosecutor.
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Very true he plead down to keep from major time and fine ... a straw purchase alone can be up to 10 years and up to $250k then tack on interstate transfer of a handgun (they specifically said multiple Glocks and a Ruger) he’d have another Federal charge per handgun along with the straw. If the prosecutor would and the judicial system (judge and jury) he really could go way over 10 years and not blink.

Also they do not say what crimes the firearms were involved in ... simple possession of an unregistered firearm in DC would not really be huge but if his cousin’s boyfriend used one in a robbery that’s different. He broke the law and acknowledged it so he knew what he was doing. I’d just like to kinda know what his real intentions were ... gun running or helping his relatives and friends ... cause 5 or 6 guns per year was not making him much money.
 
NCFubar said:
Look at all the hoops they have to jump thru ... our PPP’s ain’t nothing. The paperwork behind it is basically a firearms registration database with some fees per firearms ... and then

Very true he plead down to keep from major time and fine ... a straw purchase alone can be up to 10 years and up to $250k then tack on interstate transfer of a handgun (they specifically said multiple Glocks and a Ruger) he’d have another Federal charge per handgun along with the straw. If the prosecutor would and the judicial system (judge and jury) he really could go way over 10 years and not blink.

Also they do not say what crimes the firearms were involved in ... simple possession of an unregistered firearm in DC would not really be huge but if his cousin’s boyfriend used one in a robbery that’s different. He broke the law and acknowledged it so he knew what he was doing. I’d just like to kinda know what his real intentions were ... gun running or helping his relatives and friends ... cause 5 or 6 guns per year was not making him much money.
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Agree, more info would very likely be helpful. I think the bottom line here is that regardless of what crimes were or were not committed with guns he originally purchased, they were recovered in unsavory circumstances and I’d wager a good bit that he knew he shouldn’t have given/sold “his” guns to whoever he gave/sold them to.
 
This might be racist but I don't think the government has any business regulating firearms ownership or who you sell your personal property to. I am more concerned about the government's ability to tangle people up with straw purchase charges than I am about people of color arming themselves.

"Shall not be infringed"
 
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So let me get this right just so I understand.
This cat gets 2.5 years for running 30-40 guns to various characters all over the place. Knows what he's doing too.
The nice lady from Pennsylvania with the CCW & legal handgun drives into NJ, gets yanked by the Troopers, and they insist on giving her 3 years/no mercy. Gun!
She has no idea she's breaking any law.

Am I really witnessing this insane s*** or have I missed something?
 
James said:
If this is a concern, why are so many forums viewable by non members? Seems like an easy fix.
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I’d prefer we behave in public as opposed to bedlam in private.
 
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Friday said:
So let me get this right just so I understand.
This cat gets 2.5 years for running 30-40 guns to various characters all over the place. Knows what he's doing too.
The nice lady from Pennsylvania with the CCW & legal handgun drives into NJ, gets yanked by the Troopers, and they insist on giving her 3 years/no mercy. Gun!
She has no idea she's breaking any law.

Am I really witnessing this insane s*** or have I missed something?
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And the feds behind Fast & Furious got promotions after making sure thousands of gun got into criminal hands, some of which even killed US law enforcement agents. What a country!
 
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