Who has thought of vacating the premises?

DrSideways said:
Who has thought that the fight may be lost and it is time to live elsewhere?

Where are you thinking of and why? I am widower who is retired and only have one daughter. She comes to visit 4 times a year.

Belize has been pointed out by a friend. A preliminary look seems to be favorable.

I just want to live in peace without all the fake dual party crap. I guess I am just tired of being tired.

Shower me with your thoughts.
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LeeMajors said:
Now why did you go and do that?
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Already said everything that can be said about other countries, at least 5 times. This one is for the noobies.

Cliff Notes:

1) NO ONE is going to "stay and fight" Instead, it is more like "stay and bitch"... I grin (sorta) at the thought of patriots herded on to cattle cars muttering curses and threats while invoking "the second amendment." This ain't 1776 and Patrick Henry types are in short supply.

2) YOU DON'T FLEE TO FIND A BETTER COUNTRY. Not the goal. You won't find a "better" place to run, as far as a political entity. You look for a place where the gov has so much dysfunction that they can't bother you, and the people have a history of getting along. This means (usually) rural. It does give me the chuckles to see the mouth breathers invoke their knowledge of Latin America based on a six month tour of duty in Panama (where they never got off base except to get laid or go to a bar), or based off their extensive knowledge of some network news story. Latin America has a LONG history of antifascist patriots fleeing the nanny state. Many SOF guys who were at one time involved with drug interdiction wind up just buying small farms and retiring in Colombia, for example.

3) Guatemala is the only country in the west besides USA where RTKBA is in their constitution. Around Guat city the gangs own it, just like central and northern Mexico. I would move to Chicago or SWLA first. SOUTHERN Mexico is nice, as is Guatemala (western), Panama and Costa Rica. Colombia is beautiful and nice (I lived there almost a year), but has a history of "La Violencia"... as does Peru. Chile is rough right now. Rural Argentina is nice. You have to look around, and consider being a nomad.

3) You may well find a spot isolated in the US to wait out the nonsense. I posted before that I am hopeful (actually more hopeful than in a long time) that the leftoloons may have actually paved the way for a functional breakup of the USA. Again, it doesn't matter what you CALL it. You can still have a titular gov in DC, but if there is regional autonomy (which always comes from DEFYING claims of centralized authority), then we could well have a regional breakup with some zones being more or less freedom seeking. It is why I am in Nash county, where the sheriff has just announced he will not be enforcing Roy Cooper's mask edict. If you can keep the idea of avoiding the crazy and keep your culture and language, I can't think of anyone who would not choose that.

I have chosen, for family reasons, to stay here for now. I also have a few items (!) stashed in a safe and hidden spot in MX, in the event that things come totally unglued here, but would probably travel further down. I have relatives in Chile. Again, it gives me the giggles to think of folk who will devote extensive time, thought and resources to planning a "bugout" a few hours away, but are horrified to think of "running away" in the event the whole country goes sideways. Jews in Germany, Kossacks in Soviet, Armenians in Turkey, Blacks in Libya, 8 million various tribespeople in Africa (including the Ibo right now in Nigeria, where 32,000 have been murdered just this year).... all would have scoffed at the thought of "staying to fight" because "patriotism." It just makes sense to me to think internationally. YMMV.
 
I have family in Sardinia, my girl has family in Romania, Portugal is awesome, but we also just bought land for a nice little compound. It's nice to have options, play it by ear.
If the SHTF here and we did bug out, it would be Sardinia or Romania, we got a free place to stay in either. Sardinia has better weather, but Romania is better on guns.
 
rdinatal said:
Ok, here's the serious question...

Once the SHTF, how would you get there? Both those are a bit further than a day, or two, walk.
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I once had a box of hammered gold sheets, which were used as currency in Vietnam back during the war there. They came in a little box, and there was a note in there, in butchered English, telling someone to please help the young man who had them, as this was the son of the woman who had this gold as a family inheritance. Dunno if it was legit, but when SHTF, this is PRECISELY why I have gold. If I want to speculate on currency devaluation, I do silver. There is always a way out, even after the last plane leaves. Gold gets you on it when nothing else will.
 
Finland has my vote, plenty of good vodka without the having the permission of some commissar to drink it. Everybody in the neighborhood knows they will fight to the death and walk wide circles around them, just ask the Russkys and Germans. Now getting them to like an American pig may be a problem but freedom does have to be earned.
 
OldNascar said:
Finland has my vote, plenty of good vodka without the having the permission of some commissar to drink it. Everybody in the neighborhood knows they will fight to the death and walk wide circles around them, just ask the Russkys and Germans. Now getting them to like an American pig may be a problem but freedom does have to be earned.
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Finland, while the better of the Scandinavian countries, still has a pretty leftist government. True though, they don't like anyone. They are very insular. My father's family is Finn.

I have thought about being an expat. A lot of countries have been scratched off the list for reasons already listed in this thread. My wife and I have talked about getting a remote piece of land in the US; but we won't.

I have an acquaintance, former Army SF, expat in Thailand. Loves it. Comes back to the states once a year for a month to visit family.
 
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Chuckman said:
Finland, while the better of the Scandinavian countries, still has a pretty leftist government. True though, they don't like anyone. They are very insular. My father's family is Finn.

I have thought about being an expat. A lot of countries have been scratched off the list for reasons already listed in this thread. My wife and I have talked about getting a remote piece of land in the US; but we won't.

I have an acquaintance, former Army SF, expat in Thailand. Loves it. Comes back to the states once a year for a month to visit family.
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I started to write anywhere in the Baltic area but the current migration situation ongoing one would have to be selective of an area in any of those countries, Finland included.
 
Chuckman said:
Will gold be a thing in a SHTF situation? I can't eat it, I can't drink it, I can't shoot it, and it can't shelter me. Like any exchange of a 'thing', the reciprocal has to be valuable in the eyes of the recipient. Gold won't be for many people.
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My feeling is gold will be valuable (to a point) as long as you can still buy the necessities. Once the 'be nice rules' go out the window then it's bullets and things that make them go bang.
 
JBoyette said:
Just remember,

If you are over the age of 40 the goal is for you to die off and then the change will happen without you. All this bickering and bitching is for nothing, because damn near all of you will do the same thing you have done for the last 30 years.

Nothing.
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Trouble is “nothing” can and is a good thing that beats action when you don’t have a clue what or which move to take.
 
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Anyone have the article the guy wrote that lived thru the mess in Bosnia?
Lots of info on what happens when it all goes up in smoke.
 
For all its problems, I still like America, and I can't see myself living anywhere else. Plenty of places I'd love to visit, but I'd always want to come back home. Also, as a lower-middle class working dude, I don't have the means to pull up stakes here and start over in central or South America, unless there's a high demand for guys who know how to keep trees healthy there. I've got a house and a little patch of land here in NC, and I've worked hard to get it. I'm not just going to give that up.

Under the right situation, I could see myself moving to another state. Wouldn't mind Montana, Florida, or Arizona, if I could find a job I like and land/house I could afford.
 
Mom's kin built this house in 1881. I moved here (from Virginia, or yankeeland, according to BoB) to take care of her in 1997. This is my home now.

I'd never go unless dragged out of here.

And if they do try to drag my butt outta here, some of them will get an unpleasant surprise. I didn't fight for my life so hard with breast cancer to let some random a-hole do me and my property harm.
 
noway2 said:
celebrate the 4th this year because it might be the last one.
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For the first time in 59 years, the big family picnic on the 4th by the river is cancelled. Sad times.
 
I'm an American living in NC. Nothing hyphenated or anything to be misunderstood/misinterpreted by those who are of sound minds. I'm also of the opinion that in this land of opportunity life has been much more than fair to me and so have many, many people. For that I'm grateful and prepared to pay it forward in any possible way.

I won't give any of that up willingly and I trust that does not require further explanation.
 
DrSideways said:
Who has thought that the fight may be lost and it is time to live elsewhere?

Where are you thinking of and why? I am widower who is retired and only have one daughter. She comes to visit 4 times a year.

Belize has been pointed out by a friend. A preliminary look seems to be favorable.

I just want to live in peace without all the fake dual party crap. I guess I am just tired of being tired.

Shower me with your thoughts.
Click to expand...


FWIW, the wife and I have considered retiring to Hungary, Ireland, down under somewhere be New Zealand or western South America. Maybe Greenland, Finland or Norway.

IF I was in your situation, learn how to sail and go get a sailboat and live on it, sail around and only anchor up when needing some supplies, so site seeing and relax on your own terms.. My wife and I have thrown that idea around.
 
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rdinatal said:
Ok, here's the serious question...

Once the SHTF, how would you get there? Both those are a bit further than a day, or two, walk.
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Have to bug out at the beginning, when planes are still flying.
Plus I also said I have options, depending on where the SHTF, we might just stay here, especially when we put the Home Place together.
 
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Chuckman said:
Will gold be a thing in a SHTF situation? I can't eat it, I can't drink it, I can't shoot it, and it can't shelter me. Like any exchange of a 'thing', the reciprocal has to be valuable in the eyes of the recipient. Gold won't be for many people.
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If we have such a total reversion to utter stone age individual isolation that no one engages in commerce, then I would not sweat the guns and ammo either, as none of us will live, and the ones who do squeak by will be more from forces that appear utterly random than proper planning. If we have the barest modicum of buying and selling, people, being people, are going to look for a medium of exchange for buying and selling. COULD it be unobtanium, or left eyeballs from Gambian albino chimpanzees? Sure.
But one thing is certain..., even in an utter collapse (I don't see that happening myself), people do not like doing straight barter for long. I may have skills as a person who rigs up basic electricity, but I want wood and have no physical capacity to get it, and the woodcutter needs plumbing help. The plumber wants blueberries, and the blueberry farmer wants electricity. This happens over and over and over and over and over and over in history. It is why "money" exists. Econ 101
 
tanstaafl72555 said:
If we have such a total reversion to utter stone age individual isolation that no one engages in commerce, then I would not sweat the guns and ammo either, as none of us will live, and the ones who do squeak by will be more from forces that appear utterly random than proper planning. If we have the barest modicum of buying and selling, people, being people, are going to look for a medium of exchange for buying and selling. COULD it be unobtanium, or left eyeballs from Gambian albino chimpanzees? Sure.
But one thing is certain..., even in an utter collapse (I don't see that happening myself), people do not like doing straight barter for long. I may have skills as a person who rigs up basic electricity, but I want wood and have no physical capacity to get it, and the woodcutter needs plumbing help. The plumber wants blueberries, and the blueberry farmer wants electricity. This happens over and over and over and over and over and over in history. It is why "money" exists. Econ 101
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Not to sound terse, my point was about the utility of gold (or any precious metals) in a lot of circumstances is that is it. I am well taught in econ.
 
tanstaafl72555 said:
COULD it be unobtanium, or left eyeballs from Gambian albino chimpanzees? Sure.
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My money is on bottle caps. Nuka Cola bottle caps to be specific, backed by the value of clean drinking water.

Chuckman said:
Not to sound terse, my point was about the utility of gold (or any precious metals) in a lot of circumstances is that is it. I am well taught in econ.
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You are correct in that their physical utility outside of being decent electrical conductors and useful for making various baubles, their relative scarcity is what makes them useful as a medium of exchange. The use of anything common would result in inflation.
 
As we ready the house for sale, and I look at construction costs here in NC and elsewhere, I am seriously considering cashing out and GTFO.
Or at least becoming more mobile and less connected to a 'place' with 'stuff in it'. My family has been in NC since the early 1700s...but this isn't feeling much like home anymore.
I'm not leaving the states, but I would consider leaving for the American Redoubt region of Idaho, Montana, etc.

Twin Falls Idaho is beautiful this time of year ;) but....they just got snow in June.
 
Ikarus1 said:
As we ready the house for sale, and I look at construction costs here in NC and elsewhere, I am seriously considering cashing out and GTFO.
Or at least becoming more mobile and less connected to a 'place' with 'stuff in it'. My family has been in NC since the early 1700s...but this isn't feeling much like home anymore.
I'm not leaving the states, but I would consider leaving for the American Redoubt region of Idaho, Montana, etc.

Twin Falls Idaho is beautiful this time of year ;) but....they just got snow in June.
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My cousin in CO had some a couple weeks back too, but this time of year its really only the higher elevations that get it and its gone quickly. Besides, you want the precipitation out here to keep the wildfires at bay.
 
There are plenty of places to hide in the USofA without crossing any other countries borders.
Some pretty country out there.
Wyoming, the Dakotas just to name a couple.

Heck a man could get lost in the swamps of Louisiana forever. :p
 
Millie said:
For the first time in 59 years, the big family picnic on the 4th by the river is cancelled. Sad times.
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1st time in living memory, the biennial Lillington Ross family reunion postponed until 2021. I(not what it used to be for me anyway. I am largely indifferent.)
 
Ikarus1 said:
As we ready the house for sale, and I look at construction costs here in NC and elsewhere, I am seriously considering cashing out and GTFO.
Or at least becoming more mobile and less connected to a 'place' with 'stuff in it'. My family has been in NC since the early 1700s...but this isn't feeling much like home anymore.
I'm not leaving the states, but I would consider leaving for the American Redoubt region of Idaho, Montana, etc.

Twin Falls Idaho is beautiful this time of year ;) but....they just got snow in June.
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I love northwest Montana, but they can get snow 10 months of the year. There are parts of the Bob Marshal that are impassable in June.
 
JBoyette said:
Just remember,

If you are over the age of 40 the goal is for you to die off and then the change will happen without you. All this bickering and bitching is for nothing, because damn near all of you will do the same thing you have done for the last 30 years.

Nothing.
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Do not sell us old folks short. Read the Art Of War. Right now they are eating their own, let them do that for a while. They are in the cities now where the cops have their hands tied. I won't go any further.

“Beware the quiet man. For while others speak, he watched. And while others act, he plans. And when they finally rest… he strikes.”
― Anonymous
 
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Ikarus1 said:
As we ready the house for sale, and I look at construction costs here in NC and elsewhere, I am seriously considering cashing out and GTFO.
Or at least becoming more mobile and less connected to a 'place' with 'stuff in it'. My family has been in NC since the early 1700s...but this isn't feeling much like home anymore.
I'm not leaving the states, but I would consider leaving for the American Redoubt region of Idaho, Montana, etc.

Twin Falls Idaho is beautiful this time of year ;) but....they just got snow in June.
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We did precisely that 5 years ago. I sold my house and got a 60% gain on it in 13 years, took the money and bought a much less expensive home with a little land. We did stay in NC, but it takes 45 mins to drive from Wake Forest here. The people are GREAT. My next door neighbors are all just great people. Race is an issue, but not nearly the issue in Durham (one neighbor is black). Not a lot of idiotic nonsense from the woke crowd. 1400 or so people. The COVID thing has made it possible to work from home, and I am supposed to be starting a new job in August. My property taxes went from 3,000 dollars a year to 600. I have been pulled over 4 times either for routine stops or for small infractions and the cops are just great! Friendly, courteous, respectful... the Sheriff in Nash county is fabulous. Eastern NC or Western (away from Ashville) are FULL of places you can just get "off the map" and no one bothers you much. Eastern TN is similar, as is Northeast Alabama, and NW Georgia (where I grew up). There are lots of "redoubt" type places here in the South, including SE Virginia where there are good people, where in the event of a big event you might be surprised at the caliber of people.

Had I rather run and get out of the USSA altogether? Sometimes. Everything is a trade off, though. One really good thing about moving to a poorer area, in the USA or out, is that YOUR MONEY GOES FARTHER. If you can figure out a way to make decent money from that remote location, you are golden. If you have decent computer skills, you can work remotely and live in Mexico LIKE A KING for 40,000 dollars a year. I don't mean ostentatiously (that is an invitation to get robbed, kidnapped, or murdered). I mean WELL, with a very comfortable home, a live in servant, regular trips to great vacation spots, private schools and health care, etc. Live in a big expat area like Lake Chapala, Oaxaca, Comitan or even San Miguel de Allende and you will find so many American Expats that you will never HAVE to speak Spanish. It is the same in other second and third world countries.

Just as an aside, some poster upstream referenced Romania. I have a very good friend who is from Romania (Hungarian ancestry), and the similarity in words and pronunciations is amazingly similar. Since Spanish is a very easy language to learn, this might be a good place, although I love what is happening politically right now in both Hungary and Poland.
 
This thread reminds me of the of how if I hadn't met the girl I'd marry in High School my plan was to leave the country after getting my degree and go some place where my family wouldn't find or follow me. I mentioned this to her not that long ago and she responded, "why didn't we both just go?". She may feel that way now, but I am pretty certain back then she wouldn't have wanted to leave her family at the time. Feeling betrayed by them and the passage of 20 years can change that and the memory of it.
 
Ikarus1 said:
Problem with Montana is it's the next Colorado. Missoula is full of 'woke' fools that can't wait to run for state office. Idaho...not so much.
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This. A friend and I have been discussing moving and, while some foreign countries appear good, we decided to stay in the US. Idaho has been at the top of our list for a while now
 
fsj80 said:
This. A friend and I have been discussing moving and, while some foreign countries appear good, we decided to stay in the US. Idaho has been at the top of our list for a while now
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Don't discount Northern Utah either. But....wear your magic underwear :D
 
Ikarus1 said:
Problem with Montana is it's the next Colorado. Missoula is full of 'woke' fools that can't wait to run for state office. Idaho...not so much.
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I don't know a whole lot about Montana (except the Bob Marshall area). Bozeman is pretty liberal, Helena I have heard is pretty blue collar, rugged, and conservative. My wife's friend, her dad is a state rep. It sounds like Montana geographically is mostly conservative, but the larger numbers in the few urban areas make up the difference.
 
Chuckman said:
I don't know a whole lot about Montana (except the Bob Marshall area). Bozeman is pretty liberal, Helena I have heard is pretty blue collar, rugged, and conservative. My wife's friend, her dad is a state rep. It sounds like Montana geographically is mostly conservative, but the larger numbers in the few urban areas make up the difference.
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Bozeman is Missoula south. I suggest Kalispell - that's where Randy Weaver lives now I'm pretty sure
 
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