Why Mark and Patricia McCloskey STAND-TALL & Armchair Commandos "Posers" Suck

Good perspective. :D
 
But, but they haven’t shot in any IDPA (whatever it is) and didn’t have that $1000.00 tactical course. Can’t be a legit gun owner without those because that makes you a Fudd. Can’t call it Fudd anymore because he is unarmed now.

There is a big difference between brandishing a firearm and engaging with a firearm.

Good for those folks standing up for themselves and their property... Hopefully they have some sort of training/experience to fall back on if they have to engage... Especially if they are in a "multiple engagement" situation.
 
There is a big difference between brandishing a firearm and engaging with a firearm.

Good for those folks standing up for themselves and their property... Hopefully they have some sort of training/experience to fall back on if they have to engage... Especially if they are in a "multiple engagement" situation.
In your scenario 99.999 percent of gun owners will be brandishing firearms when they protect themselves. Sounds like you suggest mandatory training to own a firearm so you don’t “brandish.”
 
In your scenario 99.999 percent of gun owners will be brandishing firearms when they protect themselves. Sounds like you suggest mandatory training to own a firearm so you don’t “brandish.”


"Hopefully" does not imply manditory training at all.
 
We're both if them barefoot when they were outside?
 
But, but they haven’t shot in any IDPA (whatever it is) and didn’t have that $1000.00 tactical course. Can’t be a legit gun owner without those because that makes you a Fudd. Can’t call it Fudd anymore because he is unarmed now.

Don't take this couples reaction as justifcation for your lack of activity.

Any training, any match any shooting sport will make everyone better. Poking fun at IDPA or $1000 AR's is the same as the dress up commando's making fun of this couple.
 
I train in a lawn chair in my back yard. I have Grandkids run around in backyard while I shoot at them with a paintball gun. To simulate protecting me home I get up in their treehouse & have them try to gut up there to me. I just aim from the neck down. They get good exercise too.
 
I train in a lawn chair in my back yard. I have Grandkids run around in backyard while I shoot at them with a paintball gun. To simulate protecting me home I get up in their treehouse & have them try to gut up there to me. I just aim from the neck down. They get good exercise too.

That's fine family fun right there. And social distancing too.


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Poking fun at IDPA or $1000 AR's is the same as the dress up commando's making fun of this couple.

Funny, that's not what I took away or understood his comment to refer to.


Taking both his post in context:

But, but they haven’t shot in any IDPA (whatever it is) and didn’t have that $1000.00 tactical course. Can’t be a legit gun owner without those because that makes you a Fudd. Can’t call it Fudd anymore because he is unarmed now.

In your scenario 99.999 percent of gun owners will be brandishing firearms when they protect themselves. Sounds like you suggest mandatory training to own a firearm so you don’t “brandish.”

They seem to support Rex's view.

Humans being Humans there is always "Class Warfare" involved, such as I'm better because my rifle cost $1,200 more than yours. The 2A community is no different.

If there is a "Call To Arms", I firmly believe many will be wearing Jeans ~ Dockers and NOT 5.11 Gear.

Still want us to stand next to you,,,????
 
There is a big difference between brandishing a firearm and engaging with a firearm.

Good for those folks standing up for themselves and their property... Hopefully they have some sort of training/experience to fall back on if they have to engage... Especially if they are in a "multiple engagement" situation.
Arguably, target rich environments might require less training. :D

The issue of training is easily overcome. It's not a fixed thing.

I'm of the school that basic firearms training should be "madatory" whether you own a gun or not and it should be freely available and free or very low cost. Consider it safety training. Some here feel people are born with an intrinsic knowledge of how to handle guns and any trip to a public range proves this is not true.

Ok, maybe not really mandatory, but you know what I mean.

Just sayin'
 
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Pink Brooks Brothers polos are the new Hawaiian shirts for the big luau. :D

sunnies-n-scars.jpg


:D:D:D;)
 
They protected their property, nothing was destroyed/burned/looted, and nobody got shot.
Great outcome. Any condemnation from gun people is irrelevant. They proved our foundational premise as gun rights advocates, and the whole world saw it.
In the last 2 days at work people came up to me that I never thought would, to ask me about buying guns. They all were affected by that video and referenced it.
We should be defending them vigorously.

And gun supporters need to brush up on the methods of jury nullification, as no doubt we could end up in this situation, and be opposed by some Democratic city official that demands that we be charged.
Time to nullify politically motivated charges.
 
There is a big difference between brandishing a firearm and engaging with a firearm.

Good for those folks standing up for themselves and their property... Hopefully they have some sort of training/experience to fall back on if they have to engage... Especially if they are in a "multiple engagement" situation.
Who really gives a ....?
They did what nobody else in this country has, they stood up, with no training, with less then perfect equipment and they accomplished their mission.
God bless ‘em.
Everybody else is kissing shoes and taking a knee.
Training is good and necessary but resolve is where its at.
 
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Funny, that's not what I took away or understood his comment to refer to.


Taking both his post in context:





They seem to support Rex's view.

Humans being Humans there is always "Class Warfare" involved, such as I'm better because my rifle cost $1,200 more than yours. The 2A community is no different.

If there is a "Call To Arms", I firmly believe many will be wearing Jeans ~ Dockers and NOT 5.11 Gear.

Still want us to stand next to you,,,????

You forgot Carhartts.
 
Training can be as simple as popping soda cans with a daisy for all I care. From the videos I saw they don't even have that level. Hell even watching some YouTube videos, or dare I say most instruction manuals would of been a marked improvement.
Serious gunplay ain't for most people. Nor does it have to be. But a rudimentary understanding of how to hold a rifle or handgun is not a high standard. It shouldn't be a requirement, but it is a hallmark of responsibility.

I would wager that if you took those same actions throw them at a local range or gamelands and most if not all of you would be on here talking about the crazy ignorant folk that almost shot you.

Good on them for defending what was theirs, don't get me wrong. But you can't must ignore the other half of the equation.
 
I fall on the side of "give these people a break". Ill preface what I am about to say by affirming that I fully believe in practice, quality training, and familiarity with ones firearms.

However, the vast majority of gun owners are not as "in to" firearms as people who would single out and join an online gun community like this one. So much of the online community's negative thoughts about this couple and their "tactics and capabilities" is often spoken from people who take firearms far, far more seriously than the average citizen. I liken it to watching two dudes have a bar fight, and then a crowd of MMA fanatics chime in to discuss their poor arm bars, lack of ground control, and shoddy foot work. All of that can both be absolutely true, and also completely irrelevant. One guy still won the fight, one guy lost. The end result could have been achieved far better through training and all that...no doubt, but (as they say) it is what it is.

I personally feel that any discussion about what they did should both include praise for not bowing to the crowd and allowing their lives and property be put into jeopardy, but also a wake up call to the rest of us that just because we have all these fancy toys locked away in the house it doesn't mean we will be ready for whatever life throws at us.
 
I fall on the side of "give these people a break". Ill preface what I am about to say by affirming that I fully believe in practice, quality training, and familiarity with ones firearms.

However, the vast majority of gun owners are not as "in to" firearms as people who would single out and join an online gun community like this one. So much of the online community's negative thoughts about this couple and their "tactics and capabilities" is often spoken from people who take firearms far, far more seriously than the average citizen. I liken it to watching two dudes have a bar fight, and then a crowd of MMA fanatics chime in to discuss their poor arm bars, lack of ground control, and shoddy foot work. All of that can both be absolutely true, and also completely irrelevant. One guy still won the fight, one guy lost. The end result could have been achieved far better through training and all that...no doubt, but (as they say) it is what it is.

I personally feel that any discussion about what they did should both include praise for not bowing to the crowd and allowing their lives and property be put into jeopardy, but also a wake up call to the rest of us that just because we have all these fancy toys locked away in the house it doesn't mean we will be ready for whatever life throws at us.


Absolutely!!

Ownership does not mitigate risk/liability.
 
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I fall on the side of "give these people a break". Ill preface what I am about to say by affirming that I fully believe in practice, quality training, and familiarity with ones firearms.

However, the vast majority of gun owners are not as "in to" firearms as people who would single out and join an online gun community like this one. So much of the online community's negative thoughts about this couple and their "tactics and capabilities" is often spoken from people who take firearms far, far more seriously than the average citizen. I liken it to watching two dudes have a bar fight, and then a crowd of MMA fanatics chime in to discuss their poor arm bars, lack of ground control, and shoddy foot work. All of that can both be absolutely true, and also completely irrelevant. One guy still won the fight, one guy lost. The end result could have been achieved far better through training and all that...no doubt, but (as they say) it is what it is.

I personally feel that any discussion about what they did should both include praise for not bowing to the crowd and allowing their lives and property be put into jeopardy, but also a wake up call to the rest of us that just because we have all these fancy toys locked away in the house it doesn't mean we will be ready for whatever life throws at us.
You know I would be more inclined to give them a break for the things they lack if I didn't A: have a container full of bullets from "unloaded" firearms, most of which that were actually unloaded after being pointed at my person. And B: if even half the people who did such expressed any remorse or apologetic attitudes, instead of the snark I normally receive.
 
But you can't must ignore the other half of the equation.

Sure we can. They got through a tough situation without being killed or having to kill. Their level of expertise, however low it is, was enough to accomplish their goals. It is hard to argue with success. Would better training have altered the outcome of this particular event? Probably not.

That same level of expertise, however, may not see them through the next encounter. I hope they would realize that and try to learn more about how to handle firearms.

Would better understanding of how to use their tools be better? Certainly. No doubt. Is this the same as showing up at a range? Absolutely not. Nobody is threatening them at most ranges I have used. I would not want them at a bay next to me at the range but would be glad that they would be trying to get more familiar with their firearms.
 
You know I would be more inclined to give them a break for the things they lack if I didn't A: have a container full of bullets from "unloaded" firearms, most of which that were actually unloaded after being pointed at my person. And B: if even half the people who did such expressed any remorse or apologetic attitudes, instead of the snark I normally receive.


Ever go into a retail gun store and ask to see the "gun in the counter"?? From my experience, 8 out of 10 people behind the counter muzzle sweep me and/or others while getting the gun out ( before checking clear).... When I re-position myself away from the muzzle, the comment is always " Don't worry, Its Not Loaded "....

I ask them about the 4 rules of firearms safety. Generally they can recite them, and when they get to " Never point a gun at anything you don't want to destroy", They realize they messed up....

I don't do much retail shopping for this very reason.... YMMV
 
You know I would be more inclined to give them a break for the things they lack if I didn't A: have a container full of bullets from "unloaded" firearms, most of which that were actually unloaded after being pointed at my person. And B: if even half the people who did such expressed any remorse or apologetic attitudes, instead of the snark I normally receive.

I give them a break because I have never had my house surrounded by an angry mob and had to grab a firearm to defend myself. I do agree they could have technically done things better, no doubt.


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My wife has her CHP (we got them together almost 15 years ago). She carries; not all the time, but at least semi-regularly. The probability of her carrying is proportional to the distance we are traveling (I'm' working on her on that). She does not shoot much. She has always thought I was a little, um, "overly enthusiastic" (my words) about shooting. (I've shot in matches and had some classes, though not nearly as much/many as I'd like). She's even asked me, "Why do you have so *&^%$ much ammo???" Even given that, she's been pro-2A and pro-self-protection, since before we got CHPs. Then this event and its video came out, and she watched it...and it's amped her up. "You need to show me everything you have, where it all is, and we have to PRACTICE." She DOES recognize that their firearm handling was sub-par and that the couple needs training; heck, she recognizes that SHE needs some. But she freely admits that this video, of these folks protecting their home by reacting to a situation (not instigating something on "peaceful" protesters) finally got to her, and she sees it as a call to action. For her. She's quit accusing me of wearing tin foil, and gotten out her own sheet. :)

I wonder how many folks in the US are having the same reaction.

(Regarding the ammo question, I took her into Academy Sports and Bass Pro yesterday to see the locust-emptied shelves, and then told her my friend just purchased 5.56 for 2X the price of the last case I bought...)
 
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