If schools do not go back

Online college instructors have been holding online and hybrid classes while getting paid for many years. I'm not saying you're wrong, I just wouldn't hold your breath on that happening.
 
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My daughters private school goes three days a week two day at home. Teachers make about 25k with few benefits. It's the adjustment for two days off work. If the work three days a week I don't care cut the salaries. My guess would be if that is the option you will see schools open fast.
 
Cowboy said:
If kids don't go back to school Teachers should not be paid. If they teach online or go part time they should be prorated for their services. If nothing else parents should be given school choice to look at private options with their allotted monies.
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Nobody is stopping you from sending your daughter wherever you like. [emoji1303]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Interesting opinion considering the difficulty in finding and keeping qualified teachers for our children.

My autistic twins are in a public school special needs program. It offers great services and opportunities we would have trouble providing. But, from our research and communication with other autistic families we are blessed with our particular situation. Others are not so lucky. The regular parts if the school have been struggling, but our program has been exceptional.
That being said, our daughter is in Connections Academy, an online virtual school. This is not only approved by the state, but they hire ex-teachers from each state familiar with the curriculums. The teachers are for support and assistance. The students are required to have contact with a teacher a couple of times a week for checkin. Curriculums are already done and are uniform throughout the system. It is self paced with specific deadlines and it works well. And because we are involved with her education (imagine that) we have influence on what she is taught. We transitioned from NC to SC without missing a beat. One of the kids in the program got a full ride to Duke a couple of years ago, so it's a respected program.
I think this is the future and thought so before the COVID mess.
 
Cowboy said:
If kids don't go back to school Teachers should not be paid. If they teach online or go part time they should be prorated for their services. If nothing else parents should be given school choice to look at private options with their allotted monies.
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If you are a parent who has not planned for kids away from the brick and mortar you are going to be surprised most likely. Public schools don’t give one shit what difficulties you as a parent experience. For example: what if they declare the kids will be on a rotational schedule to attend physically. What financial burden will that mean for you to have some type of childcare and supervision of online studies when not in the building. Highly discussed and planned now is rotation of half the students and staff. Two days on campus one week, three the next.

Get off your arse and find parents like you and enroll your kids either in developed county online academies or be prepared to join a homeschool network and establish contacts with parents handling supervision if it’s not by a stay at home parent. If I still had kids in school today above 14 they wouldn’t even be a need for them to provide me an answer.

I can only speak to the salary issue like this: they are now on the clock just like us for unemployment. High school coaches that don’t do crap and now don’t even teach the two classes of PE, then watch game films for fun are certainly not needed. If nobody is physically in the building most cafeteria, janitors, administrators, athletic directors, maintenance, and school drivers should be required to sign up for unemployment. Add the resource officer as well (no defund him being racist cop he is- joking).


George said:
Interesting opinion considering the difficulty in finding and keeping qualified teachers for our children.

I don’t think that is one bit true. It’s one of the simplest studies in college and pays big damn money per hour when you look at the number of days teaching after huge vacations and summer off. Less than 200 working days a year. It’s a great job and pays very well except the first couple years. Teach high school- hell no. There are some cra cra students in high schools.
 
zuerjoha said:
Arguably, teaching remotely is harder than teacher in person since they have to adapt the curriculum to that.
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Come on man. Do you honestly believe that? Once a course is made you don’t have to do squat. Nor do you have to patrol halls, take football gate money, clean a gym, eat lunch with morons, attend meetings, hold open house, clean the damn room, empty the trash, handle paper, supply pens, pencils, paper, and supplies...... you get it. I call it noise. Same for the kids 7 hours is 3 hours of noise and four hours of study.

Gentlemen people are going to get their $2200 or whatever it is when this is all over and the school system may finallly get forced to change since 1920.
 
BlackGun said:
Come on man. Do you honestly believe that? Once a course is made you don’t have to do squat. Nor do you have to patrol halls, take football gate money, clean a gym, eat lunch with morons, attend meetings, hold open house, clean the damn room, empty the trash, handle paper, supply pens, pencils, paper, and supplies...... you get it. I call it noise. Same for the kids 7 hours is 3 hours of noise and four hours of study.

Gentlemen people are going to get their $2200 or whatever it is when this is all over and the school system may finallly get forced to change since 1920.
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BG - until you do the job, you dont know the job. Id MUCH rather be IN the classroom than do anymore of this remote learning.
Once the course is made it's not over. Hell, my stuff is in a binder and in folders (on flashdrive) - I flip the pages as I go and that's my whole semester...doesnt mean Im 'done' and I wouldnt be done if the same was for online learning. There's still a lot to do.

Plus:
By patrol halls - we try to stand outside of our rooms between classes and chat with each other, not hard.
I dont work any games except the ones I coach
I dont clean the gym
I dont eat lunch with anyone but my department, who I love
Attend meetings - still have it with online learning and it's not as easy as in person
Open house is 3 hours a year, eh, I wouldnt mind not doing it but not a big deal
Clean the room - nope. My kids keep it clean. I dont allow them to trash my room. Now, I say that, I clean desks every few weeks and straighten the desks regularly. Not much.
Trash is taken out by the custodians
Schools supply paper, pencils, pens etc. I spend no money on supplies at all, except pens for myself because Im picky.

Just making clear what ACTUALLY happens in a classroom vs what you might think happens. I know @sr30 knows how it can be frustrating to hear about what happens in a place that some folks havent been to in decades



Them making 25k is not necessarily based on how much they're working, but private schools usually pay less, as do some of the charter schools.


If one is not pleased with public schools, they're always looking for people to pony up the funds for their institutions.




PS - Sounds like our district is buying chromebooks for EVERY student that they'll have with/on them at all points of their time in HS. So they're getting ready if we dont have kids back, but Ive been told WE will be back in the building in August
 
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I saw on T.V. a couple of Harvard students are suing the school since that say they paid for in in person education not remote learning. The want a refund on their tuition.
 
We are one of those fortunate families that can have a parent work at home while the kids are in "school". @Pynghunter goes out to work while I work from home. Thank GOD the kids are on summer (until the 20th) because I'm not prepared to be a parent, a (PRODUCTIVE) employee, and teacher all in a single 8 hour day. But this isn't about me.

Our school is a charter and has done an amazing job with school curriculum for the kids the last semester of their school year. Do I want to continue this into the next year? HELL NO. Do I think my middle school daughter and elementary school son get the same education? Can't say, but pretty certain no. But I am sure that my kid's teachers put their all into making that last quarter work. My youngest had 1 hour recorded videos every day for 2 subjects that the teacher had to prepare and record for the kids to continue outside of their regular live lessons. I'm certain our school's teachers earned their salary.

BUT, I have heard stories of public school teachers doing similar as our Charter school and others that all but disappeared during that last quarter of school. I don't think our county has enough resources to make consistency in schooling remotely for all grades and all teachers.

I will FULLY support my kids going back to physical school in whatever capacity they can. My kids (and I) need it. But, I will also support our school in whatever decision they have to make.
 
I'll add something based on @Jeffininer post
I didnt enjoy remote learning and I found it more difficult than just going to work and TEACHING.
That said, those last two weeks - I had no drive. By that point the kids knew that they couldnt fail (not all could pass though), kids gave up so my job got a lot easier. It sucked, though.

Cooper screwed us. He screwed the kids, too. They dont think it, they enjoyed an additional 2 months of summer vacation, but they got screwed out of an education. And I blame Cooper for most of that.
 
As someone with 2 younger kids in school and another out of daycare and working from home it has been tough at times trying to do both and be fair to company and kids so I support them going back as long as it is pretty safe for everyone if not give those kids or parents, and teachers a choice to do online that are higher risk. From a cutting teacher pay perspective I have held and done training classes in person and online for years and I much prefer doing them in person and much easier to me and less time consuming to me than doing them online by time you plan it out and record everything so im ok with them still getting payed. My thing about the rotations in school is your going to make the circles the kids travel in and exposed to much bigger cause now your going to have more parents needing to use child care for days they are not in school which is more kids and germs they normally may not be exposed with.
 
<rant on> If I hear another parent complain about them needing a break from their kids being at home, I am going to kick a puppy. If you don't want kids, get a goldfish. <rant off>

If you want the dialogue about the efficacy of public school at home, homeschooling (people, if your kids are doing public school at home, that is NOT homeschooling...), hybrid curriculum, curriculum development, CBE/TBE (computer-based or tech-based education), then we can have that discussion.
 
Chuckman said:
<rant on> If I hear another parent complain about them needing a break from their kids being at home, I am going to kick a puppy. If you don't want kids, get a goldfish. <rant off>

If you want the dialogue about the efficacy of public school at home, homeschooling (people, if your kids are doing public school at home, that is NOT homeschooling...), hybrid curriculum, curriculum development, CBE/TBE (computer-based or tech-based education), then we can have that discussion.
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I agree. We do a university model private school. People have no idea how hard it is to implement a real home school.
That said just saying that teachers are not physically in school their compensation Should be different. There are lots of different classes that can't be taught online and some that repeat so instead of 5 math teachers you might need 3. Our tax money Should be spent wisely not just spent.
 
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Chuckman said:
<rant on> If I hear another parent complain about them needing a break from their kids being at home, I am going to kick a puppy. If you don't want kids, get a goldfish. <rant off>

If you want the dialogue about the efficacy of public school at home, homeschooling (people, if your kids are doing public school at home, that is NOT homeschooling...), hybrid curriculum, curriculum development, CBE/TBE (computer-based or tech-based education), then we can have that discussion.
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If this is directed at me, then I’m sorry I gave that impression...I was merely saying I need a break from the chaos of doing 3 jobs at once. I’m more than happy to have my kids around and get to know them on a different level. If it wasn’t directed towards me, then carry on :oops:
 
Cowboy said:
If kids don't go back to school Teachers should not be paid. If they teach online or go part time they should be prorated for their services. If nothing else parents should be given school choice to look at private options with their allotted monies.
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Aren't you LEO? Maybe your department will get "defunded" and you'll be free to homeschool.
 
SimpleMan said:
Aren't you LEO? Maybe your department will get "defunded" and you'll be free to homeschool.
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No I'm not Leo. I work in the court system and have not missed a single day of work.
We already home school part time. I have helped with lots of projects. My wife took a pay cut and has worked from home for 9 years now because our child home schooling. Notice I said pay cut to stay at home.
 
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HMP said:
I'll add something based on @Jeffininer post
I didnt enjoy remote learning and I found it more difficult than just going to work and TEACHING.
That said, those last two weeks - I had no drive. By that point the kids knew that they couldnt fail (not all could pass though), kids gave up so my job got a lot easier. It sucked, though.

Cooper screwed us. He screwed the kids, too. They dont think it, they enjoyed an additional 2 months of summer vacation, but they got screwed out of an education. And I blame Cooper for most of that.
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I gotta save this post. A teacher that did not back Roy Cooper’s decisions totally. I hav seen so many post on Facebook by teachers proclaiming themselves the only family these kids have. Complaining about having to plan a different way. Complaining about all the things I listed above they did that was not teacher duties. @HMP if teachers in your school don’t do these things then good for your school but they do them here. At the beginning of the year they get a date list of all the events for the year which they have to select the sports and after hours activities they are required to work athletic event gates or clean after with coaches. It does happen. During online class Spring semester teachers jogged by the house daily. We would speak, sometimes drink a soda or beer. They had it made. I had a couple tell me they were prepared for the fall online if it happens. Now granted most of these teachers have been in the system 20 or more years.

Catawba County has an online program due to losing so many kids to the huge amount of small private schools, especially Hickory Public Schools. The homeschool network here is pretty big and growing. People are fed up with how Raleigh has handled public education. A year ago I saw a list of 124 charter schools in North Carolina. It’s the legislators way of saying public schools are not getting the job done but it’s also set in segregation tactics. Raleigh has failed every parent in this state. Me- my kids were in public school and a highly motivated superintendent was brought in to change the culture. A lot of teachers did not get contract renewals during his era. The school went from bottom third percentile to the high school 14th in the state. He retired and in four short years they are #266. Who’s to blame? The hand shaking, do nothing school board. A big part of that is Charters began to voluntarily report and their student performance was at the top. NC schools can’t be that much of a success if we are 43rd in the nation in performance.

I don’t have a dog in the fight anymore. I knew many of the board members. I caught them when out and gave them my feedback. They don’t like being cornered and they don’t like people rallying voters against them. They like their power and insurance on the dime of the state.

Roy Cooper should have already made a decision on the fall. It’s a huge burden on parents. It’s a huge burden on them financially. Cooper and the North Carolina High School Athletic Association should have already declared fall sports suspended but here they are doing crazy stuff for sports starting this week while individual counties are delaying to July 20th and August 1st. They all know there is not going to be sweat piling football or men’s soccer on August 27th. But that would be planning. They are just delaying the announcement to appease the mob. Same for brick and mortar classes.

Yesterday Carolina Football announced 31 confirmed cases of Covid19. Where was the great Cooper? Nope. He loves those Heels. Cancel the sports. Ain’t nobody gonna wear no mask and be safe huddling and piling on. Or bumping each other running up and down a field. I would say play but the kids go back to places where grandparents are the parents. They will have no second chance parents when they suffer Covid19 death. Sports is way over blown in this country.

Tans rant over.
 
Jeffininer said:
If this is directed at me, then I’m sorry I gave that impression...I was merely saying I need a break from the chaos of doing 3 jobs at once. I’m more than happy to have my kids around and get to know them on a different level. If it wasn’t directed towards me, then carry on :oops:
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No, not at all, I think I understood where you were coming from. I was remarking about the million soccer moms my wife and I know who are at home all day anyway, who love sending their kids off to school for no other reason than the "free" babysitting.
 
Chuckman said:
<rant on> If I hear another parent complain about them needing a break from their kids being at home, I am going to kick a puppy. If you don't want kids, get a goldfish. <rant off>
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Couldn’t agree more.

You’d think a parent would enjoy more time with their kids. Yeah....everybody needs “alone” time; I get that, but kids don’t stay kids very long. They grow up way too fast and every extra minute you are given to spend with them, while they’re still kids, should be seen as a blessing...not a curse.

The past 4 months was a golden opportunity to strengthen the family unit, which is precisely what this country needs.
 
BlackGun said:
Come on man. Do you honestly believe that? Once a course is made you don’t have to do squat.
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Don't project your work ethic on others who are working diligently to create significant and rigorous content for online delivery. Tell you what, I have a course, two sections, you can give a try in the Fall.
 
Cowboy said:
No I'm not Leo. I work in the court system and have not missed a single day of work.
We already home school part time. I have helped with lots of projects. My wife took a pay cut and has worked from home for 9 years now because our child home schooling. Notice I said pay cut to stay at home.
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Outside of the Perfect Utopia you live in, a lot of children don't get everything they need at home, and people such as my wife, a 20 year SC teacher, provide it for them. Unless you have a teacher in your family, I doubt you know how it really works. And hopefully, you and yours are "ahhhhsential", and no one is plotting for your family to lose part of their income.

If you really want to bitch, think about folks that don't have kids and pay the same taxes as you.
 
"If schools do not go back" parents may start parenting and many kids will get a safer and better education.
We homeschooled our boys, they went into a high screwl environment for drivers ed and thanked us profulsly for not subjecting them to the prison like atmosphere surrounded by bored troublemakers.
 
SimpleMan said:
Outside of the Perfect Utopia you live in, a lot of children don't get everything they need at home, and people such as my wife, a 20 year SC teacher, provide it for them. Unless you have a teacher in your family, I doubt you know how it really works. And hopefully, you and yours are "ahhhhsential", and no one is plotting for your family to lose part of their income.

If you really want to bitch, think about folks that don't have kids and pay the same taxes as you.
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Lol, Utopia. My wife did the teacher thing for a year. Let's see all the "progressive" politicians are plotting to take my job and our freadoms away. I'm not saying anything more than common Sense. If you pay teachers full price to do part of their job it's a loser. Would you pay a contractor full price to finish part of the job?

Let's just do common sense and say there are at least several teachers that could be laid off because their positions are based on in class participation such as PE,Home economics and several others.
 
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SimpleMan said:
If you really want to bitch, think about folks that don't have kids and pay the same taxes as you.
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If you really want to bitch think about folks who homeschool, get no tax breaks/incentives, despite paying for public schools through property taxes.... but yeah, if I had no kids I would be bitching about that as well...
 
Unless you have walked in the shoes of school staff.
Classroom time 7:30-3:00
Practice. 3:30-6:30
Wash uniforms 6:30-7:30
Waiting on a parent to pick kid is usually 30-45miniutes after practice is over.

You have no glue as to what goes on a daily basis.
Most coaching supplements are a joke. Time spend at school. Driving a bus for 1.50 twice a day
Staring at 6:30 Am by the time you finished with coaching duties your home at 8:00 PM

Most of us do it because of wanting to help the kids. Not For The $$$.

parents do have options if the can afford it.
Not everyone can!!!
 
Cowboy said:
Lol, Utopia. My wife did the teacher thing for a year. Let's see all the "progressive" politicians are plotting to take my job and our freadoms away. I'm not saying anything more than common Sense. If you pay teachers full price to do part of their job it's a loser. Would you pay a contractor full price to finish part of the job?
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What specific part of their job are they not providing? They still have to deliver a curriculum, they still have to educate your children. They are not relieved of teaching your children in any way. In fact, their job became harder because in order to educate your children they have distance, time, and technological barriers to overcome. This last year was an absolute mess, but when things kick back in they will still have performance reviews, they will still have to show that they delivered their lesson plan and results were seen in test scores.

What they are not doing is being babysitters. Something that they never were intended to be. So you want to cut their pay for something that was never their job anyway.
 
Shooterb said:
Unless you have walked in the shoes of school staff............
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Here's what I say to teachers: This is what you chose, so quit whining.

TO BE FAIR: I have said this to MY colleagues as well when they bitch publicly about their jobs (especially in light of COVID). Most all of us have jobs where we can say "until you walk in my shoes...." So I am not directing this to you, but anyone who plays the you-need-to-feel-sorry-for-me-because-I-am-a-teacher/nurse/paramedic/cop/firefighter/whatever game....
 
B00ger said:
What specific part of their job are they not providing? They still have to deliver a curriculum, they still have to educate your children. They are not relieved of teaching your children in any way. In fact, their job became harder because in order to educate your children they have distance, time, and technological barriers to overcome. This last year was an absolute mess, but when things kick back in they will still have performance reviews, they will still have to show that they delivered their lesson plan and results were seen in test scores.

What they are not doing is being babysitters. Something that they never were intended to be. So you want to cut their pay for something that was never their job anyway.
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I don't care about the baby sitting part my child has never been in public school.
If they are still doing it online and that's all that's needed we need a cut period. No giant building budgets let them all do it online.
 
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Shooterb said:
Unless you have walked in the shoes of school staff.
Classroom time 7:30-3:00
Practice. 3:30-6:30
Wash uniforms 6:30-7:30
Waiting on a parent to pick kid is usually 30-45miniutes after practice is over.

You have no glue as to what goes on a daily basis.
Most coaching supplements are a joke. Time spend at school. Driving a bus for 1.50 twice a day
Staring at 6:30 Am by the time you finished with coaching duties your home at 8:00 PM

Most of us do it because of wanting to help the kids. Not For The $$$.

parents do have options if the can afford it.
Not everyone can!!!
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Coaches make that choice they don't have to do it. So while you bring up the coaching supplement how much does someone get paid to be a head football or Basketball coach?
 
Chuckman said:
you-need-to-feel-sorry-for-me-because-I-am-a-teacher/nurse/paramedic/cop/firefighter/whatever game....
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This is not what I'm promoting, by a long shot. I'm saying that teaching is not a cush job like some people think, I see it from the inside. I don't believe anybody deserves a constant pat on the back for their career choice, no one. I'm just saying that when someone jumps up and cries out "They ain't working, they shouldn't get paid", the truths and facts need to be presented. This would be like saying that firemen should only get paid while they are running calls, not waiting around the firehouse for a call and so on....
 
SimpleMan said:
This is not what I'm promoting, by a long shot. I'm saying that teaching is not a cush job like some people think, I see it from the inside. I don't believe anybody deserves a constant pat on the back for their career choice, no one. I'm just saying that when someone jumps up and cries out "They ain't working, they shouldn't get paid", the truths and facts need to be presented. This would be like saying that firemen should only get paid while they are running calls, not waiting around the firehouse for a call and so on....
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OK, I buy that...
 
Cowboy said:
I don't care about the baby sitting part my child has never been in public school.
If they are still doing it online and that's all that's needed we need a cut period. No giant building budgets let them all do it online.
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So cut the building budgets, not the teachers salary. And you still don't recognize that them teaching online does not reduce one iota of the performance and job requirements that they have. If anything it makes those requirements more difficult to achieve.

But you are also approaching this as it will be permanent going forward. Most of the plans I have seen have the high schools being the "stay home full time" group, while middle school will be on a rotating schedule, and elementary being full time. But that may not mean the high schools will be vacant. Some of the plans I have seen include using the now "vacant" high schools to spread the other grades out a bit to reduce class size.

On top of that, when eventually, this hysteria goes away kids will return to these "vacant" schools, and in the mean time they will still need to have been maintained. Budgets that can be trimmed are things like transportation, paper goods, and cafeteria expenses.
 
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