Active shooter @ Twentynine Palms Marine Corps Base

we currently have an all volunteer army. Why would we have a draft right now? What’s the justification for that? I’m asking respectfully, just trying to understand your side of the discussion.

Haha. I think his justification is, everyone under 50 is a pusssss, and everyone over 50 is amazing... So sad we are ruining America...

Oh well, people with that mentality won't have to worry about it for too many more years...
 
Haha. I think his justification is, everyone under 50 is a pusssss, and everyone over 50 is amazing... So sad we are ruining America...

Oh well, people with that mentality won't have to worry about it for too many more years...
Watch it Bucko!
 
Dreamer my ass, reality is bring back the draft and replace the brats with grown ups. Many talk make America great again but when it gets down to it those like you have a million excuses for continuing further degradation.
I laughed way hard at this.

Got troops who are immature and unruly? Kick them out and conscript a bunch of replacements who had no intention of joining in the first place. That'll work out fine.
 
The barracks at MCAS New River used to be the site of MANY firefights between the different squadron enlisted guys back in the 60s, 70s and 80s. Not bullets, but pen flares would disappear from survival vests a few at a time with an occasional launcher. They had a projectile about the size of a .32 with a tracer front end.

I hated being Duty NCO or SNCO when this shit went on because unless you found a blood trail The SGT Schultz routine was every where " I didn't see nutting!"
 
we currently have an all volunteer army. Why would we have a draft right now? What’s the justification for that? I’m asking respectfully, just trying to understand your side of the discussion.
The draft increases the pool to draw from, that’s all. The rest is up to the military to scrutinize those recruited. Just imagine the day the 2A was amended and then tell the troops of that time they are not allowed access to firearms for their protection wherever and with whomever they ventured. Has maturity of soldiers diminished since those days to the point we have to manage them them like a bunch of college frats, does the military have to pander to these all volunteers to keep them at bay, I say no. They’re US citizens and should be afforded the rights of the 2A and the penalties for abuse just like all Americans.
 
I laughed way hard at this.

Got troops who are immature and unruly? Kick them out and conscript a bunch of replacements who had no intention of joining in the first place. That'll work out fine.
Not to go back on the current troops efforts but back in the day of my ancient play a step out of line got a boot up your rear by those of concern and no mama to cry to. Nothing badass about the day just the needed knowledge was passed short, swift and certain.
 
Dreamer my ass, reality is bring back the draft and replace the brats with grown ups. Many talk make America great again but when it gets down to it those like you have a million excuses for continuing further degradation.

LOL, now I know you are trolling and not serious....:D

At least the kids who join, want to be there. Drafting kids today will look a tad different than drafting kids during WWII and Korea (even VN).... Now your original argument makes even less sense: let's conscript kids, make them join when they don't want to, and give them access to weps on base? Get outta here....
 
LOL, now I know you are trolling and not serious....:D

At least the kids who join, want to be there. Drafting kids today will look a tad different than drafting kids during WWII and Korea (even VN).... Now your original argument makes even less sense: let's conscript kids, make them join when they don't want to, and give them access to weps on base? Get outta here....
So here we go, when the differences go thin the troll flag comes out. I say you’re as much the problem as any anti-gunner that shouts bloody murder at our usage of guns. The 2A has been thrown out the window in the military and for no reason other than the troops can’t be trusted. Well, so can a bunch of civilians not be trusted by their actions with firearms yet we manage to survive their onslaught. I dare say the military, a true disciplined military, would not have any abuses more so than those of us walking the streets. Give them the right to protect themselves.
 
Dreamer my ass, reality is bring back the draft and replace the brats with grown ups. Many talk make America great again but when it gets down to it those like you have a million excuses for continuing further degradation.

The draft is slavery. Most of us here support freedom.
 
Nope, the KIDS on active duty in the military DO NOT need to be carrying firearms on a daily basis.

No f'n way!!!!!!!!!

SOME SNCOs and SOME junior Field Grade would be adequate IMHO!
 
So here we go, when the differences go thin the troll flag comes out. I say you’re as much the problem as any anti-gunner that shouts bloody murder at our usage of guns. The 2A has been thrown out the window in the military and for no reason other than the troops can’t be trusted. Well, so can a bunch of civilians not be trusted by their actions with firearms yet we manage to survive their onslaught. I dare say the military, a true disciplined military, would not have any abuses more so than those of us walking the streets. Give them the right to protect themselves.

So my attempt at humor (my first line) was off.

But your argument makes. No. Sense. So in that case, drop all handgun age limits to 18 and let all college kids, frat kids, have access? Cool. Cause that's what you have with barracks life. I say you're as much the problem with being so "back in my day..." that you've lost all semblance of understanding current sociology and policy.

Let's explore for the minute your assumption of "I dare say the military, a true disciplined military, would not have any abuses more so than those of us walking the streets." If they are so disciplined, and a base has law enforcement, then they don't need guns for protection, yes? And you are OK conceding that an 18 year-old is of as sound a mind with judgment as a 30 year-old? But a drafted military would be more disciplined than the current one?

Let's take the argument further: would it be "more OK" for an infantryman to have a weapon than, say, a data processor who goes to the range once a year for qual? Or is everyone on a base given equal rights? Then if a base is given equal rights to have guns for everyone who is in the military, how do you reconcile the law of being 21 to purchase a handgun? And what about civilians on base who would not be able to pass a background check for ownership? Or are bases subject to the states in which they reside for applicable gun laws?

For the record, please read my previous posts and tell me how I am like "any anti-gunner that shouts bloody murder at our usage of guns" because I don't believe in carte blanche application of "guns for all" for MAP on a base.
 
So my attempt at humor (my first line) was off.

But your argument makes. No. Sense. So in that case, drop all handgun age limits to 18 and let all college kids, frat kids, have access? Cool. Cause that's what you have with barracks life. I say you're as much the problem with being so "back in my day..." that you've lost all semblance of understanding current sociology and policy.

Let's explore for the minute your assumption of "I dare say the military, a true disciplined military, would not have any abuses more so than those of us walking the streets." If they are so disciplined, and a base has law enforcement, then they don't need guns for protection, yes? And you are OK conceding that an 18 year-old is of as sound a mind with judgment as a 30 year-old? But a drafted military would be more disciplined than the current one?

Let's take the argument further: would it be "more OK" for an infantryman to have a weapon than, say, a data processor who goes to the range once a year for qual? Or is everyone on a base given equal rights? Then if a base is given equal rights to have guns for everyone who is in the military, how do you reconcile the law of being 21 to purchase a handgun? And what about civilians on base who would not be able to pass a background check for ownership? Or are bases subject to the states in which they reside for applicable gun laws?

For the record, please read my previous posts and tell me how I am like "any anti-gunner that shouts bloody murder at our usage of guns" because I don't believe in carte blanche application of "guns for all" for MAP on a base.
It still comes back that your thinking is an American citizen in the military can not be trusted with a firearm while a American citizen on the street can; same age, same everything. Pure anti-gun thinking, I don’t care how you paint it, it still comes out the same.
 
It still comes back that your thinking is an American citizen in the military can not be trusted with a firearm while a American citizen on the street can; same age, same everything. Pure anti-gun thinking, I don’t care how you paint it, it still comes out the same.

If you could see me, I am shaking my head, not quite at face palm.

Your assertions of how things were "back in the day" coupled with your all-over-the-place logic between drafting vs volunteer military leave me no other logical conclusion than you really have not thought through this very much past "but muh gunz..."

If you could answer all of my questions so I can try to see where you are coming from, great; if not:

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Then kids are VERY professional while your thumb is on their ass!

Most want a beer and a BJ within 20 minutes of getting off work. Yes there were exceptions, but they are exceptions.

I worked as a drafted and under all-vollunteer services, not a whole lot of difference really.
 
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If you could see me, I am shaking my head, not quite at face palm.

Your assertions of how things were "back in the day" coupled with your all-over-the-place logic between drafting vs volunteer military leave me no other logical conclusion than you really have not thought through this very much past "but muh gunz..."

If you could answer all of my questions so I can try to see where you are coming from, great; if not:

View attachment 229218
Not, if paths cross then a discussion would be forthcoming.
 
It still comes back that your thinking is an American citizen in the military can not be trusted with a firearm while a American citizen on the street can; same age, same everything. Pure anti-gun thinking, I don’t care how you paint it, it still comes out the same.

And there is your fallacy, thinking that life in the military is the same as life on the streets as a civilian.
 
And there is your fallacy, thinking that life in the military is the same as life on the streets as a civilian.
That’s quite apparent, when the military takes away your right to firearms and then provides no protection it is time to reinstate the 2A that never should have lost in the first place.
 
The draft increases the pool to draw from, that’s all. The rest is up to the military to scrutinize those recruited. Just imagine the day the 2A was amended and then tell the troops of that time they are not allowed access to firearms for their protection wherever and with whomever they ventured. Has maturity of soldiers diminished since those days to the point we have to manage them them like a bunch of college frats, does the military have to pander to these all volunteers to keep them at bay, I say no. They’re US citizens and should be afforded the rights of the 2A and the penalties for abuse just like all Americans.

I don’t think the quality of recruit would come up if you instituted the draft right now. I mean, millennials can’t get fast food orders correct, they can’t get your coffee orders right, can’t follow simple instructions on job sites. Do we really want pissed off millennials being forced in to military service?? Can you imagine the temper tantrum‘s on the PT fields, or in Barricks, or during field Maneuvers? I think that would make things worse.
 
I don’t think the quality of recruit would come up if you instituted the draft right now. I mean, millennials can’t get fast food orders correct, they can’t get your coffee orders right, can’t follow simple instructions on job sites. Do we really want pissed off millennials being forced in to military service?? Can you imagine the temper tantrum‘s on the PT fields, or in Barricks, or during field Maneuvers? I think that would make things worse.
Yet these same folks buy and somehow walk the streets of this nation daily. Should we amend the 2A to exclude them, don’t think so.
 
That’s quite apparent, when the military takes away your right to firearms and then provides no protection it is time to reinstate the 2A that never should have lost in the first place.

I'll tell you what the Drill Sargent told us " the day you enlisted was the day that convicted felons in prison have more rights than you do".

All members of the military are subject to the UCMJ, not the constitution. That happens the day you enlist/commission. You are no longer a civilian subject to only civilian law. The UCMJ is the law for military.
 
I'll tell you what the Drill Sargent told us " the day you enlisted was the day that convicted felons in prison have more rights than you do".

All members of the military are subject to the UCMJ, not the constitution. That happens the day you enlist/commission. You are no longer a civilian subject to only civilian law. The UCMJ is the law for military.
When the bases on our own soil become a soft target for terrorists and mass murders it is high time to get those empowered, namely Congress, to get those in the military to quit doing stupid and come up with a way to stop the threat. I know, it’s too easy to do the right thing and allow the service people to protect themselves as individuals as intended in the 2A, an amendment enacted just for that purpose and granted to all US citizens, yes all US citizens.[/QUOTE]
 
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to get those in the military to quit doing stupid and come up with a way to stop the threat..

And that right there shows how much you dont know.

Hey, it's ok though you dont know what you dont know.

You shouldn't be ashamed of not knowing. You cant help it.
 
And that right there shows how much you dont know.

Hey, it's ok though you dont know what you dont know.

You shouldn't be ashamed of not knowing. You cant help it.
Lol, your wisdom overcomes me. Knowing what a known is is not knowing in itself, continue on.
 
Nope, the KIDS on active duty in the military DO NOT need to be carrying firearms on a daily basis.

No f'n way!!!!!!!!!

SOME SNCOs and SOME junior Field Grade would be adequate IMHO!
They are either adults or not. If an 18 yo can legally open carry in NC, same as those that took an oath to defend this county. Stop the double standards.

CD
 
My son has only fired a gun for the military for one session. That was in officer school. He has not put hands on a rifle or pistol thru the military since. Big mortar rounds and missiles, yes. Arm all the soldiers on base- not a good idea. They drink, act stupid, and get locked up all the time. These are 18-25 year olds for the most part. My son investigates his guys all the time and writes reports on their stupidity. Domestic violence, drinking under age, brawling, and suicide. I’m not sure you can even have your private weapons anywhere but in the Armory. This is why I have not sent a very expensive rifle to him already. I do believe officers should carry a sidearm on base to aid military police.
 
My son has only fired a gun for the military for one session. That was in officer school. He has not put hands on a rifle or pistol thru the military since. Big mortar rounds and missiles, yes. Arm all the soldiers on base- not a good idea. They drink, act stupid, and get locked up all the time. These are 18-25 year olds for the most part. My son investigates his guys all the time and writes reports on their stupidity. Domestic violence, drinking under age, brawling, and suicide. I’m not sure you can even have your private weapons anywhere but in the Armory. This is why I have not sent a very expensive rifle to him already. I do believe officers should carry a sidearm on base to aid military police.
Officers are some of the most incompetent weapons handlers. If your son has only handled a small arms once in service what makes you think he as an officer is competent? Stop classifying all troops as the anti gunners do with college students. I've been armed and with troops since 83' and you're off base with that. Yes, some do but the majority do not. Only have to keep weapons in the arms room if you live in barracks. You can also keep them off post or if married you can keep them in your base quarters or off post. Weapons handling is always a training issue.

CD
 
Officers are some of the most incompetent weapons handlers. If your son has only handled a small arms once in service what makes you think he as an officer is competent? Stop classifying all troops as the anti gunners do with college students. I've been armed and with troops since 83' and you're off base with that. Yes, some do but the majority do not. Only have to keep weapons in the arms room if you live in barracks. You can also keep them off post or if married you can keep them in your base quarters or off post. Weapons handling is always a training issue.

CD


Herein lies my issue: those in the barracks, mainly. Barracks life + open access = bad juju. I think there can be a way to make it work so that a base's security is better (rotational internal QRF, etc.), but I do not think that 100% open access 100% of the time with 100% of the personnel is the answer.
 
I don’t think anybody is pushing for 100% of the troops to carry 100% of the time yet the ability to do so should be there as long as it does not interfere with duty. Bottom line is all US citizens should be be afforded the same rights to carry. It has been a surprise to me the thoughts of some in regards to the 2A. Engrained beliefs about the military and their right to disarm our citizens disturbs me as much as any wacko liberal thinking on our nation. Just because we are presently being led down a path of assured harm to our troops doesn’t mean it has to stay that way. The military can and should change just as the rest of the country has done during this time of world terrorism. Bottom line is the troops deserve the right to protect themselves.
 
Herein lies my issue: those in the barracks, mainly. Barracks life + open access = bad juju. I think there can be a way to make it work so that a base's security is better (rotational internal QRF, etc.), but I do not think that 100% open access 100% of the time with 100% of the personnel is the answer.
Barracks are NOT what they were in the 1960s. They are more 2-3 man rooms or single rooms ie Dorm with share a bathroom/kitchen. Again most commands have those in barracks lock them up in the arms room. Before arms rooms the rifles were kept in racks in the barracks.

CD
 
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Jesus Christ. Awful lot of “I support the 2nd Amendment, but.....” goin on in here. The military should be allowed the same rights as everyone else. Why is it that I can, and have been carrying a gun since I got my first CCW 15yrs ago, but the second I put this uniform on and come through that gate, then I’m suddenly too irresponsible to be carrying anymore?

The idea that there will be blood running down the ladder wells, gun fights in the quad and Officers getting “fragged” is absurd. Could there be some incidents in the barracks? Yeah probably, but those are gonna happen anyway, same as they will at any off base residence. Punish it and move on, don’t let the actions of a couple assholes ruin it for everyone else.

oh and you are living in an absolute fantasy land if you think the barracks aren’t full of guns already......
 
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Pre 9/11, with most posts being "open" LOTS of dudes had guns in their cars & never a problem. We'd even go out to McKeller's Lodge & run a few cylinders or mags over lunch.
 
Astonishing to me (having lived on base for 17 yrs as a dependent of a Dad that retired as an O-6) that you can task people with using a gun, but not with owning one on base.
 
Officers are some of the most incompetent weapons handlers. If your son has only handled a small arms once in service what makes you think he as an officer is competent? Stop classifying all troops as the anti gunners do with college students. I've been armed and with troops since 83' and you're off base with that. Yes, some do but the majority do not. Only have to keep weapons in the arms room if you live in barracks. You can also keep them off post or if married you can keep them in your base quarters or off post. Weapons handling is always a training issue.

CD

Thank you for reminding me of something many many moons have caused me to forget!

CRS Sucks CD!

BTW - barracks with kitchens, WTF, not through the 90's in New River.
 
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Barracks at Bragg started turning into dorms in the early '00's.

During the drawdown in Germany in the mid '90's, they wanted to start shutting down the smaller kasernes that were mostly barracks & the HQ crap for the Signal, MP & Engineer Battalions that had already vacated the AO.

They moved us all into the newly (mostly) vacant Family Housing units. As an NCO, I got a nice little 2 bedroom apartment to myself, while the junior enlisted were 2 pax in a 3 bedroom unit. Good times. My GF moved in & threw some great parties with my German crew.

6 or 7 Harleys parked on the bicycle pad in front of my stairwell raised an eyebrow or 2, but nobody ever complained :D

Also had 2 nice .357 & .44 revolvers in apartment, thanks to our Rod & Gun Club system. Even allowed to shoot at a neighboring unit's 25 yd range on weekends.
 
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