Damn_Yankee
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I had not heard about this lawsuit till today.
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**Updated 7/22/20** Lawsuit against Sig for the P320.
- Thread starter Damn_Yankee
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I'm not interested in any striker fire pistol with a preloaded striker.
OP
Damn_Yankee
"Now go away, or I shall taunt you a second time"
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CZ design is similar to Glock in that way, correct? No preloaded striker?
No 320s here..... certain they will get this fixed. Just not for our folks.
Factory Glock geometry is only partially cocked. The trigger cruciform draws the striker to the rear a few millimeters to complete the trigger press. If you look at the connectors that decrease trigger pull weight (OEM “-“ or aftermarket), the shallower angle on the connector engagement surface with the cruciform is what gives a lighter (but spongier) break.
P320 is a fully-cocked striker. I am not a fan of those designs to the extent they do not include a robust, ergonomic manual thumb or grip safety. A firing pin safety alone may not stop a compressed striker if the trigger is jostled hard enough to actually move (e.g. a drop test negative outcome).
That’s why 1911s are deceptively safe. The grip safety arrests the trigger bar, and the half-cock notch will slam onto the sear nose if the trigger is not pulled to the rear.
Coulda had a Glock. 
Yes, fully pre cocked striker is essentially a single action pistol cocked.
In addition to Glock being more of a half cocked striker or similar to a decocked sig 226/cz 75...the trigger bar rests in a notch that guarantees it can not go off in sig fashion when dropped from almost any height.
I am curious too about how the cz p10 is set up.
In addition to Glock being more of a half cocked striker or similar to a decocked sig 226/cz 75...the trigger bar rests in a notch that guarantees it can not go off in sig fashion when dropped from almost any height.
I am curious too about how the cz p10 is set up.
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This is why I will not a buy a new Sig. Older P series made before Cohen left Kimber to run Sig. I am temped time and time again these days by the P365 etc.... but I will not buy one.
I share your feelings on the older guns. I really gotta get a 365 SAS in your Paws!!! @Jeppo left here today a believer.
I could've sworn there was a keefluffle a few years ago about the P10 not being safe.
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I'd like to know about the CZ P10 design and see more details. I got to shoot one recently, it seemed like his had a 15lb trigger compared to my stock G23.
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Does the P365 have the same design/problem?
I have a 365XL pressed against my junk and pointed at my femoral as we speak!
Timfoilhat
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Just pulled the 320 out of the nightstand. That's going into the back of the safe now. Replaced it with something hammer fired.
@Damn_Yankee thank you for posting this.
@Damn_Yankee thank you for posting this.
A man can't own enough Glock 17's.
fishgutzy
Senior Member
I am not defending Sig but if you listen to the video, I did not check the lawsuit, the owner of this gun did not send it in for the "voluntary" upgrade. It has the pre -2017 trigger. It was purchased in 2016. There are still lots of accounts that claim the upgraded or new versions of the P320 have simply gone off.
Does anyone have a link to the actual lawsuit. The guy in the video is hard to listen to and is rambling. Would love to see the actual text vs him reading it.
Does anyone have a link to the actual lawsuit. The guy in the video is hard to listen to and is rambling. Would love to see the actual text vs him reading it.
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Found it. https://bloximages.newyork1.vip.tow...-573f-8c21-005cb88abc0f/5f03a0863c886.pdf.pdf
Some interesting facts:
7. Despite clear evidence of serious safety issues with the P320, as demonstrated by the Voluntary Upgrade Program and warranty modifications, SIG nevertheless continued to affirm 3 the safety of the P320 as originally designed. This is the version that fired on, and hit, Guay without a trigger pull on January 20, 2020 simply when he moved the holster it was in:
12. On the night of January 28, 2020, Guay was carrying his P320 in a SIGmanufactured, outside-the-waistband P250 holster while walking his dogs. Upon returning home, he began to remove the holster from his belt with the firearm still fully seated in the SIG holster.
These are the examples of the defective discharges listed in the suit
E. Other Substantially Similar or Identical Defective Discharges of the P320.
62. Before it introduced the P320 into the stream of commerce in the United States in 2014, SIG was aware of defective discharges without a trigger pull, many of which pre-dated the December 2016 sale to Guay.
63. Upon information and belief, there have been many prior incidents of defective discharges involving the P320 that have discharged without the trigger being pulled (whether involving the P320 in its original configuration, or the re-designed or “upgraded” version). The P320 has defectively discharged (both while in battery and out-of-battery) while the weapon was merely being handled, moved, while it was being holstered or un-holstered, and when the weapon was accidentally dropped. 3 3 A pistol such as the P320 is in battery when it is ready to fire with the slide properly positioned in alignment with the frame over which it rests. An “out-of-battery” discharge occurs when the slide is not in proper alignment with the weapon’s frame. Photo shows a pistol in out-of-battery state. 23
64. For example, in February of 2016, a fully-holstered P320 discharged without a trigger pull inside a Roscommon, Michigan police officer’s vehicle when the officer moved to exit the vehicle during a snowstorm. The incident was captured on the officer’s body cam video (fn. 3 above) and shows that no object entered his holster at any time.
65. In 2016, the Surprise, Arizona, police department complained to SIG of two separate incidents of P320s firing without trigger pulls.
66. Despite outstanding discovery requests in a civil action against SIG regarding defects with the P320 in the United States District Court for the Eastern District of Virginia in 2018, Vadnais v. SIG Sauer, Inc., 1:18-cv-00540 (EDVA 2018), these three incidents described in Paragraphs 64 and 65 herein were not disclosed by SIG, until the last day of discovery.
67. In October of 2016, a P320 fired un-commanded on retired NYPD officer Thomas Frankenberry in South Carolina, severely injuring him. The spent casing did not eject.
68. In November of 2016, a P320 fired un-commanded on an officer in Holmes Beach, Florida, striking him in his leg.
69. In 2017, a sheriff’s deputy in Michigan accidentally discharged a SIG Sauer pistol, striking a schoolteacher in the neck.
70. On January 5, 2017, a P320 shot a Stamford SWAT team member in his left knee when the pistol fell from a distance of less than three feet to the ground while fully holstered, refuting SIG’s express representations that the weapon is drop safe, cannot fire without a trigger pull, and does not require a safety to be drop safe.
71. On February 28, 2017, a P320 accidentally discharged while in use by the University of Cincinnati Police Department.
72. On June 14, 2017, a P320 accidentally discharged in Wilsonville, Oregon.
73. On June 20, 2017, a P320 accidentally discharged while in use by the Howell Township, NJ, Police Department. 24
74. In June 2017, SIG shipped approximately 800 P320s to the Loudoun County Sheriff’s Department in Virginia, privately assuring Sheriff David Chapman that the by then known problems with the weapon would be fixed, but stating that for the time being it had to deal with the weapon as currently manufactured and designed. Three P320s within this shipment later fired without trigger pulls on three deputy sheriffs, severely injuring them. 4
75. On July 28, 2017, a P320 accidentally discharged in Tarrant County, Texas.
76. On August 7, 2017, SIG’s CEO, Ron Cohen, stated in a press release that: “there have been zero (0) reported drop-related P320 incidents in the U.S. Commercial market.” This statement was not true. In fact, at the time it was issued, SIG had direct knowledge that Officer Vincent Sheperis in Connecticut had been shot by a drop fire with the commercial version of the P320 approximately eight months earlier, as well as several other defective discharges of the P320 before that date.
77. As noted, on August 8, 2017, SIG announced a “voluntary upgrade” program for the P320 pistol, stating that the pistol meets “rigorous testing protocols for global military and law enforcement agencies” and all “U.S. standards for safety.”
78. This statement was also false and intentionally misleading as there are no United States federal government standards for gun safety, a fact well known to SIG when it issued this press release.5
79. SIG’s VU program, as noted, was presented to the public as purely optional, not urgent, and not mandatory, offering to make existing commercial versions of the P320 “better” by installing a much lighter trigger, an internal disconnector component, and an improved sear to prevent accidental discharges. 4 Both a non-upgraded and “upgraded” re-designed versions of these P320s later fired un-commanded on and hit at least three Loudoun County deputy sheriffs in 2018 and 2019. 5 No federal agency oversees how firearms are designed or built. Congress exempted firearms from any federal regulation when it created the Consumer Product Safety Commission in 1972, due to Second Amendment concerns. 25
Some interesting facts:
7. Despite clear evidence of serious safety issues with the P320, as demonstrated by the Voluntary Upgrade Program and warranty modifications, SIG nevertheless continued to affirm 3 the safety of the P320 as originally designed. This is the version that fired on, and hit, Guay without a trigger pull on January 20, 2020 simply when he moved the holster it was in:
12. On the night of January 28, 2020, Guay was carrying his P320 in a SIGmanufactured, outside-the-waistband P250 holster while walking his dogs. Upon returning home, he began to remove the holster from his belt with the firearm still fully seated in the SIG holster.
These are the examples of the defective discharges listed in the suit
E. Other Substantially Similar or Identical Defective Discharges of the P320.
62. Before it introduced the P320 into the stream of commerce in the United States in 2014, SIG was aware of defective discharges without a trigger pull, many of which pre-dated the December 2016 sale to Guay.
63. Upon information and belief, there have been many prior incidents of defective discharges involving the P320 that have discharged without the trigger being pulled (whether involving the P320 in its original configuration, or the re-designed or “upgraded” version). The P320 has defectively discharged (both while in battery and out-of-battery) while the weapon was merely being handled, moved, while it was being holstered or un-holstered, and when the weapon was accidentally dropped. 3 3 A pistol such as the P320 is in battery when it is ready to fire with the slide properly positioned in alignment with the frame over which it rests. An “out-of-battery” discharge occurs when the slide is not in proper alignment with the weapon’s frame. Photo shows a pistol in out-of-battery state. 23
64. For example, in February of 2016, a fully-holstered P320 discharged without a trigger pull inside a Roscommon, Michigan police officer’s vehicle when the officer moved to exit the vehicle during a snowstorm. The incident was captured on the officer’s body cam video (fn. 3 above) and shows that no object entered his holster at any time.
65. In 2016, the Surprise, Arizona, police department complained to SIG of two separate incidents of P320s firing without trigger pulls.
66. Despite outstanding discovery requests in a civil action against SIG regarding defects with the P320 in the United States District Court for the Eastern District of Virginia in 2018, Vadnais v. SIG Sauer, Inc., 1:18-cv-00540 (EDVA 2018), these three incidents described in Paragraphs 64 and 65 herein were not disclosed by SIG, until the last day of discovery.
67. In October of 2016, a P320 fired un-commanded on retired NYPD officer Thomas Frankenberry in South Carolina, severely injuring him. The spent casing did not eject.
68. In November of 2016, a P320 fired un-commanded on an officer in Holmes Beach, Florida, striking him in his leg.
69. In 2017, a sheriff’s deputy in Michigan accidentally discharged a SIG Sauer pistol, striking a schoolteacher in the neck.
70. On January 5, 2017, a P320 shot a Stamford SWAT team member in his left knee when the pistol fell from a distance of less than three feet to the ground while fully holstered, refuting SIG’s express representations that the weapon is drop safe, cannot fire without a trigger pull, and does not require a safety to be drop safe.
71. On February 28, 2017, a P320 accidentally discharged while in use by the University of Cincinnati Police Department.
72. On June 14, 2017, a P320 accidentally discharged in Wilsonville, Oregon.
73. On June 20, 2017, a P320 accidentally discharged while in use by the Howell Township, NJ, Police Department. 24
74. In June 2017, SIG shipped approximately 800 P320s to the Loudoun County Sheriff’s Department in Virginia, privately assuring Sheriff David Chapman that the by then known problems with the weapon would be fixed, but stating that for the time being it had to deal with the weapon as currently manufactured and designed. Three P320s within this shipment later fired without trigger pulls on three deputy sheriffs, severely injuring them. 4
75. On July 28, 2017, a P320 accidentally discharged in Tarrant County, Texas.
76. On August 7, 2017, SIG’s CEO, Ron Cohen, stated in a press release that: “there have been zero (0) reported drop-related P320 incidents in the U.S. Commercial market.” This statement was not true. In fact, at the time it was issued, SIG had direct knowledge that Officer Vincent Sheperis in Connecticut had been shot by a drop fire with the commercial version of the P320 approximately eight months earlier, as well as several other defective discharges of the P320 before that date.
77. As noted, on August 8, 2017, SIG announced a “voluntary upgrade” program for the P320 pistol, stating that the pistol meets “rigorous testing protocols for global military and law enforcement agencies” and all “U.S. standards for safety.”
78. This statement was also false and intentionally misleading as there are no United States federal government standards for gun safety, a fact well known to SIG when it issued this press release.5
79. SIG’s VU program, as noted, was presented to the public as purely optional, not urgent, and not mandatory, offering to make existing commercial versions of the P320 “better” by installing a much lighter trigger, an internal disconnector component, and an improved sear to prevent accidental discharges. 4 Both a non-upgraded and “upgraded” re-designed versions of these P320s later fired un-commanded on and hit at least three Loudoun County deputy sheriffs in 2018 and 2019. 5 No federal agency oversees how firearms are designed or built. Congress exempted firearms from any federal regulation when it created the Consumer Product Safety Commission in 1972, due to Second Amendment concerns. 25
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Continued:
80. On August 9, 2017, the police chief of Morrow, Georgia, issued an emergency order removing the P320 from service.
81. In October of 2017, a P320 accidentally discharged in Georgia when an officer fell to the ground in pursuit of a suspect. His weapon was holstered and fired simply when he struck the ground.
82. On November 12, 2017, a P320 accidentally discharged in Tyler, Texas.
83. In January 2018, upon information and belief, a P320 accidentally discharged in Dallas County, Texas.
84. On February 7, 2018, Loudoun County, Virginia, deputy sheriff Marcie Vadnais’s P320 fired on her un-commanded severing her right femur causing catastrophic skeletal injury, deformity, four general anesthesia surgeries, severe emotional distress, and related trauma, ending her career. Upon CAT scanning her P320, it was found to have both a product and manufacturing defect: crossed sear springs that apply upward spring pressure to the sear to keep it from releasing the striker.
85. Months later in April of 2018, SIG issued a second “voluntary upgrade” notice to all users or owners of the P320, but still did not recall the weapon.
86. In May of 2018, civilian Gunter Walker reported to SIG that his P320 fired on him uncommanded when he placed the weapon down on his nightstand, shooting him through the palm of his left hand.
87. In June of 2018, a Williams County, Ohio, officer reported that his P320 discharged twice in one moment as he was merely attempting to move the slide backward. One round grazed the officer’s arm; the other blew through his patrol car’s driver’s side door.
88. In May 2018, a Rancho Cucamonga, California, officer reported that his “upgraded” P320 fired un-commanded while he was merely walking inside his department locker room; the casing of the round did not eject. 26
89. In October of 2018, a P320 fired un-commanded on Lieutenant Letrell Hayes in Georgia while he was holstering it, causing severe tunneling injuries to his right thigh and calf.
90. In October of 2018, firearms expert and retired law enforcement officer Stephen Mayes’ P320 fired on him un-commanded while seated in its holster, causing severe injury to his right leg.
91. In December of 2018, civilian Robert Lang’s P320 fired on him un-commanded, causing severe tunneling wounds to his right leg.
92. On May 19, 2019, the upgraded P320 of Lieutenant Thomas Ahern of the Cambridge, Massachusetts, SWAT team fired un-commanded inside a SWAT van with six other occupants while he was working a shift for the annual Mayfair event near Harvard Square. The round struck a metal plate affixed to his cellphone case, deflected into a SWAT gear bag, and came to rest in a ballistic helmet, narrowly missing everyone. The casing of the round did not eject. Lieutenant Ahern is a SIG-certified armorer on the P320 with significant weapons experience. 6
93. On July 23, 2019, an upgraded P320 fired un-commanded on Officer Walter Collette, Jr. of the Somerville, Massachusetts, police department, hitting him in his leg and causing substantial injuries to his leg. The next day, an upgraded P320 fired un-commanded on a Homeland Security Agent at a firing range in the Bronx, New York.
94. In August of 2019, a Philadelphia transit officer’s upgraded P320 fired un-commanded while fully-holstered, nearly striking a bystander in the subway. The incident was captured on video, it shows an “upgraded” P320 firing without the gun ever being touched and seated inside 6 According to SIG Sauer documents, “[t]he SIG SAUER factory armorer certification enables the agency armorer or individual user to completely disassemble, inspect, service, and re-assemble associated weapon systems without voiding the factory warranty. Proper and routine weapon maintenance and inspection of a firearm are essential to ensure maximum reliability. Factory armorer courses at SIG SAUER Academy certify agency armorers or individuals to maintain, inspect, service, and repair selected SIG SAUER firearms while preserving the factory warranty. Upon successful completion, armorers will fully understand each firearm and be factory-certified for a period of three years.” https://www.sigsaueracademy.com/course/armorer-certification 27 its holster. The officer involved, who noted that the round almost hit a bystander, was returned to duty the next day fully exonerated and with no discipline.
95. The Philadelphia transit authority replaced all SIG P320s, and later fully exonerated the officer of any alleged wrongdoing in view of the content of the videotape of the incident showing that it fired without a trigger pull. The officer, Craig Jacklyn, later stated: This weapon is a hazard. I actually spoke with a lawyer for my situation. Although no one was hurt...someone could have been killed. I'm angry that I was put in a potentially life altering position with a product deemed "safe" by its manufacturer. The fact that officers are carrying this weapon on the job and at home around family thinking it's safe even while resting in its holster has me very angry. Everything that I've told you is documented through 2 Investigative Services . . . Philadelphia Police Firearms Investigative Unit/ Officer Involved Shooting Incident Unit and SEPTA Transit Police Criminal Investigations Unit. There is station video footage/ body worn camera footage as well.
96. On September 3, 2019, another upgraded and re-designed P320 in use by the Loudoun County, Virginia, sheriff’s office fired un-commanded on another Loudoun County deputy sheriff, Carl Costello, hitting him in his leg.
97. On October 10, 2019, Officer Jacques Desrosiers, also of the Cambridge, Massachusetts, police department, was shot by his P320 without a trigger pull. The round caused massive and life-changing injuries to Officer Desrosiers. The spent casing of the round did not eject.
98. On October 11, 2019, a P320 fired un-commanded on Veterans Affairs police officer Frank J. Kneski, striking him beneath his lower back as he was un-holstering the weapon. Upon inspection it was found that the spent casing did not eject.
99. The Kneski discharge was investigated by Major Peter J. Villani of the United States Veterans Affairs police agency, also a SIG-certified armorer. In his report, he noted the following: After reviewing the Officer’s sidearm, it was noted that the P-320 came from Sig Sauer to the distributor prior to the point of sale already with the “upgrade” completed. The sidearm had approximately 100 rounds through it since purchased. 28 Upon further examination of the internal parts of the frame module, I noticed that the foot of the striker that catches the [sear] has noticeable side to side and up and down movement within its channel along with upward movement of the slide from the frame. Also, the edge of the striker foot which has a height thickness of approximately 2mm, is only making contact with approximately .25 of a mm of the leading edge only of the disconnector hook. Since the striker has been changed with a lighter weight version during the “upgrade program”, it is quite possible that any abrupt movement or twisting of the P-320 while holstered, could cause the foot of the striker to disengage itself from the disconnector hook on its own since there is so little contact between the striker foot and the [sear].
100. On November 9, 2019, a P320 fired un-commanded on Officer Matthew Gardette of the Manteca, California police department as he was getting ready for work. As he merely attempted to place and fasten his duty belt around his waist, the P320 discharged inside the holster.
101. The holster was a Safariland level three holster with the hood cover up securing the pistol. The round blew out the bottom of the holster, impacted the locker room floor, and missed both Officer Gardette and a fellow officer by inches as it ricocheted into a locker door.
102. On December 2, 2019, a P320 fired un-commanded while in the possession of Detective David Albert, also of the Cambridge, Massachusetts, police department, as he was in the process of putting his duty belt on.
103. In June of 2020, a P320 fired un-commanded on a Pasco County, Florida officer, severely wounding him in his right leg. This incident was the third un-commanded discharge experienced by Pasco County officers since 2019. 104. In June of 2020, a P320 fired un-commanded on a civilian in Missouri while fully seated in its holster, causing substantial damage to the holster and resulting in a broken bone to the civilian’s foot. 105. Upon information and belief, employees at SIG’s own training academy in New Hampshire have knowledge of defective discharges causing injury that occurred in both 2016 and 2017.
* Many of these discharges have no details about the nature and circumstances of the discharge.*
*Comments by WVsig not contained in the lawsuit.
80. On August 9, 2017, the police chief of Morrow, Georgia, issued an emergency order removing the P320 from service.
81. In October of 2017, a P320 accidentally discharged in Georgia when an officer fell to the ground in pursuit of a suspect. His weapon was holstered and fired simply when he struck the ground.
82. On November 12, 2017, a P320 accidentally discharged in Tyler, Texas.
83. In January 2018, upon information and belief, a P320 accidentally discharged in Dallas County, Texas.
84. On February 7, 2018, Loudoun County, Virginia, deputy sheriff Marcie Vadnais’s P320 fired on her un-commanded severing her right femur causing catastrophic skeletal injury, deformity, four general anesthesia surgeries, severe emotional distress, and related trauma, ending her career. Upon CAT scanning her P320, it was found to have both a product and manufacturing defect: crossed sear springs that apply upward spring pressure to the sear to keep it from releasing the striker.
85. Months later in April of 2018, SIG issued a second “voluntary upgrade” notice to all users or owners of the P320, but still did not recall the weapon.
86. In May of 2018, civilian Gunter Walker reported to SIG that his P320 fired on him uncommanded when he placed the weapon down on his nightstand, shooting him through the palm of his left hand.
87. In June of 2018, a Williams County, Ohio, officer reported that his P320 discharged twice in one moment as he was merely attempting to move the slide backward. One round grazed the officer’s arm; the other blew through his patrol car’s driver’s side door.
88. In May 2018, a Rancho Cucamonga, California, officer reported that his “upgraded” P320 fired un-commanded while he was merely walking inside his department locker room; the casing of the round did not eject. 26
89. In October of 2018, a P320 fired un-commanded on Lieutenant Letrell Hayes in Georgia while he was holstering it, causing severe tunneling injuries to his right thigh and calf.
90. In October of 2018, firearms expert and retired law enforcement officer Stephen Mayes’ P320 fired on him un-commanded while seated in its holster, causing severe injury to his right leg.
91. In December of 2018, civilian Robert Lang’s P320 fired on him un-commanded, causing severe tunneling wounds to his right leg.
92. On May 19, 2019, the upgraded P320 of Lieutenant Thomas Ahern of the Cambridge, Massachusetts, SWAT team fired un-commanded inside a SWAT van with six other occupants while he was working a shift for the annual Mayfair event near Harvard Square. The round struck a metal plate affixed to his cellphone case, deflected into a SWAT gear bag, and came to rest in a ballistic helmet, narrowly missing everyone. The casing of the round did not eject. Lieutenant Ahern is a SIG-certified armorer on the P320 with significant weapons experience. 6
93. On July 23, 2019, an upgraded P320 fired un-commanded on Officer Walter Collette, Jr. of the Somerville, Massachusetts, police department, hitting him in his leg and causing substantial injuries to his leg. The next day, an upgraded P320 fired un-commanded on a Homeland Security Agent at a firing range in the Bronx, New York.
94. In August of 2019, a Philadelphia transit officer’s upgraded P320 fired un-commanded while fully-holstered, nearly striking a bystander in the subway. The incident was captured on video, it shows an “upgraded” P320 firing without the gun ever being touched and seated inside 6 According to SIG Sauer documents, “[t]he SIG SAUER factory armorer certification enables the agency armorer or individual user to completely disassemble, inspect, service, and re-assemble associated weapon systems without voiding the factory warranty. Proper and routine weapon maintenance and inspection of a firearm are essential to ensure maximum reliability. Factory armorer courses at SIG SAUER Academy certify agency armorers or individuals to maintain, inspect, service, and repair selected SIG SAUER firearms while preserving the factory warranty. Upon successful completion, armorers will fully understand each firearm and be factory-certified for a period of three years.” https://www.sigsaueracademy.com/course/armorer-certification 27 its holster. The officer involved, who noted that the round almost hit a bystander, was returned to duty the next day fully exonerated and with no discipline.
95. The Philadelphia transit authority replaced all SIG P320s, and later fully exonerated the officer of any alleged wrongdoing in view of the content of the videotape of the incident showing that it fired without a trigger pull. The officer, Craig Jacklyn, later stated: This weapon is a hazard. I actually spoke with a lawyer for my situation. Although no one was hurt...someone could have been killed. I'm angry that I was put in a potentially life altering position with a product deemed "safe" by its manufacturer. The fact that officers are carrying this weapon on the job and at home around family thinking it's safe even while resting in its holster has me very angry. Everything that I've told you is documented through 2 Investigative Services . . . Philadelphia Police Firearms Investigative Unit/ Officer Involved Shooting Incident Unit and SEPTA Transit Police Criminal Investigations Unit. There is station video footage/ body worn camera footage as well.
96. On September 3, 2019, another upgraded and re-designed P320 in use by the Loudoun County, Virginia, sheriff’s office fired un-commanded on another Loudoun County deputy sheriff, Carl Costello, hitting him in his leg.
97. On October 10, 2019, Officer Jacques Desrosiers, also of the Cambridge, Massachusetts, police department, was shot by his P320 without a trigger pull. The round caused massive and life-changing injuries to Officer Desrosiers. The spent casing of the round did not eject.
98. On October 11, 2019, a P320 fired un-commanded on Veterans Affairs police officer Frank J. Kneski, striking him beneath his lower back as he was un-holstering the weapon. Upon inspection it was found that the spent casing did not eject.
99. The Kneski discharge was investigated by Major Peter J. Villani of the United States Veterans Affairs police agency, also a SIG-certified armorer. In his report, he noted the following: After reviewing the Officer’s sidearm, it was noted that the P-320 came from Sig Sauer to the distributor prior to the point of sale already with the “upgrade” completed. The sidearm had approximately 100 rounds through it since purchased. 28 Upon further examination of the internal parts of the frame module, I noticed that the foot of the striker that catches the [sear] has noticeable side to side and up and down movement within its channel along with upward movement of the slide from the frame. Also, the edge of the striker foot which has a height thickness of approximately 2mm, is only making contact with approximately .25 of a mm of the leading edge only of the disconnector hook. Since the striker has been changed with a lighter weight version during the “upgrade program”, it is quite possible that any abrupt movement or twisting of the P-320 while holstered, could cause the foot of the striker to disengage itself from the disconnector hook on its own since there is so little contact between the striker foot and the [sear].
100. On November 9, 2019, a P320 fired un-commanded on Officer Matthew Gardette of the Manteca, California police department as he was getting ready for work. As he merely attempted to place and fasten his duty belt around his waist, the P320 discharged inside the holster.
101. The holster was a Safariland level three holster with the hood cover up securing the pistol. The round blew out the bottom of the holster, impacted the locker room floor, and missed both Officer Gardette and a fellow officer by inches as it ricocheted into a locker door.
102. On December 2, 2019, a P320 fired un-commanded while in the possession of Detective David Albert, also of the Cambridge, Massachusetts, police department, as he was in the process of putting his duty belt on.
103. In June of 2020, a P320 fired un-commanded on a Pasco County, Florida officer, severely wounding him in his right leg. This incident was the third un-commanded discharge experienced by Pasco County officers since 2019. 104. In June of 2020, a P320 fired un-commanded on a civilian in Missouri while fully seated in its holster, causing substantial damage to the holster and resulting in a broken bone to the civilian’s foot. 105. Upon information and belief, employees at SIG’s own training academy in New Hampshire have knowledge of defective discharges causing injury that occurred in both 2016 and 2017.
* Many of these discharges have no details about the nature and circumstances of the discharge.*
*Comments by WVsig not contained in the lawsuit.
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Sig needs a new marketing manager. I’m available on a freelance basis.
The Sig Sauer P320
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Whether you want it to or not... The Chosen one!
I didnt read thru all that but at first glance...sure seems like a lotta AD's in the general vicinity of LEO's. I'm just sayin". And while I'm sayin', Sig had a perfectly good gun in the P250 and thats what the military shoulda bought if they were dead set on replacing the M9. DAO with restrike.
Any ideas how many of these kinds of things have happened during the same period with Glocks?
Glock Leg is certainly a good comparison point. I think the fact that Sig pretty much lied and hid the fact that the original P320 design was defective will haunt the design forever. Once they concealed and hid the truth of the safety of their gun in exchange for sales and higher profits they opened themselves up to endless scrutiny.
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OP
Damn_Yankee
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Settlement reached in a different suit?
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LEO going to own up that the weapon was not properly holstered, or finger on the trigger while drawing or holstering? Doubtful. My P320 has Gray Guns Trigger upgrade, not the Sig voluntary. I keep it under the pillow on the other side of my bed, move it around, move it to change sheets. Damn thing has never gone off "un-commanded." Thousands might believe it can happen, but count me out.
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I lost a lot of respect for Bruce Gray when he swore up and down that the P320 was 100% safe yet at the same time was developing a safer aftermarket trigger. I dumped my Gray guns pistols and swore never to buy another thing from him. I used to have several. He also protected, Sig his master, when the P220 went to the stainless steel slide and the internal extractor was failing. He literally did the same thing. Claimed there was no issue with the Sig Factory pistols while at the same time designing and tooling up to produce a Gray Guns P220 extractor. It never made it to market because he could not get it right fast enough before Sig when to an external extractor.
I am not saying that we know 100% that there is a problem with the P320 but I trust Bruce Gray as much as I trust Ron Cohen.
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This is my favorite post all year.
Yeah, that never settle BS doesn't apply to court settlements.
For a gun that can't shoot on its own!
I think I got my current FS P320 from you and it resides in my GHB that gets tossed in the back of my vehicle and removed on a daily basis (well, did until this whole COVID mess). It has a round in the chamber and has never had an accidental discharge with the manhandling. Not buying the hype either.
Doesn’t the PPQ have the same design (pre-loaded striker)?
Timfoilhat
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Lots of striker guns have pre-loaded strikers. M&P, VP9, PPQ The difference is they have more meat and less slop in the parts.
From the lawsuit above "Also, the edge of the striker foot which has a height thickness of approximately 2mm, is only making contact with approximately .25 of a mm of the leading edge only of the disconnector hook. Since the striker has been changed with a lighter weight version during the “upgrade program”, it is quite possible that any abrupt movement or twisting of the P-320 while holstered, could cause the foot of the striker to disengage itself from the disconnector hook on its own since there is so little contact between the striker foot and the [sear]."
How about a Walther P99 with a DA/SA trigger system and a decocker?
Substantially all striker-fired pistols have some degree of preloading of the striker. The big difference between the P320 and most other striker-fired pistols is how the trigger functions.
Notice anything unusual about the P320 trigger? That's right - it does not have a trigger safety.
Glocks and most other striker-fired pistols have trigger bars that move to the back when the trigger is pressed. If those pistols are dropped on the back of the slide, the weight of the trigger and trigger bar will move to the back and the gun will fire if there is not a trigger safety to prevent the backward movement.
The P320 uses the same general trigger design as the DAO hammer-fired P250. When the trigger is pulled, the part of the trigger above the pivot pin moves forward and the trigger bar is moved forward to fire the gun. If a P320 is dropped on the back of the slide, the trigger bar will try to move to the back, which will keep it from firing without a separate trigger safety.
Unfortunately, SIG messed with the initial design of the trigger, the weight of which was an integral part of the firing mechanism's safety function. Later, it was found that dropping a P320 at just the right angle and attitude would cause the sear to be released.
Notice anything unusual about the P320 trigger? That's right - it does not have a trigger safety.
Glocks and most other striker-fired pistols have trigger bars that move to the back when the trigger is pressed. If those pistols are dropped on the back of the slide, the weight of the trigger and trigger bar will move to the back and the gun will fire if there is not a trigger safety to prevent the backward movement.
The P320 uses the same general trigger design as the DAO hammer-fired P250. When the trigger is pulled, the part of the trigger above the pivot pin moves forward and the trigger bar is moved forward to fire the gun. If a P320 is dropped on the back of the slide, the trigger bar will try to move to the back, which will keep it from firing without a separate trigger safety.
Unfortunately, SIG messed with the initial design of the trigger, the weight of which was an integral part of the firing mechanism's safety function. Later, it was found that dropping a P320 at just the right angle and attitude would cause the sear to be released.
georgel
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A long time ago, when I first started EDC'ing a 1911, I had a concern with Condition 1 "cocked and locked". It took me a while to realize a 1911 is one of the safest guns on the market. It has multiple safety mechanisms, thumb safety, half-cock notch and if you had a Series 80 a firing pin block. The one "flaw" with a pre-Series 80 pistol was that if you dropped it on it's muzzle, the firing pin had enough momentum to travel forward and strike the primer. We actually tested that with a Commander and a primed casing dropping on to concrete from 2 and a half feet. This was remedied with a heavier firing pin spring. I came to trust the safety of a 1911 completely.
I moved on to Glocks for various reasons. (Didn't give up on 1911's.) And I trust them implicitly as well. Multiple levels of safeties all working in concert. Took me a while to figure out why the trigger safety, as explained above. I will admit I have drop a Glock numerous times from varying heights on to various surfaces, even once on tile and have never worried about the gun discharging. I worry more about the finish damage and if I can buff it out.
Oddly enough, I happened to briefly meet one of the guys that participated in the Army trials. He worked for Glock. He told me some information on how the test was flawed, but unfortunately, I can't remember the details. Basically, it should have been Glock. Not saying that as a Glock fanboy, but based on his info about the trials and how the score was counted.
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NC Gun Junkie
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Interesting info. I currently own (2) P320's, one of the early ones that I turned in for the upgrade and a newer X5 Carry. I also own 6 other Sig handguns / rifles. So needless to say I am a big Sig fan but this does cause me to reconsider my carry weapon.