LAPD Bans Use Of Blackhawk Serpa Holster

They're only a few years behind.

I had used a Serpa for a few years and never had an issue, actually found it's use quite natural. My finger naturally goes on the frame which is the same place as the release button. HOWEVER, I can definitely see it not being as natural for some and therefore a big safety issue.
 
Firemedic54 said:
If you keep your fingers off the trigger the holster is as safe as any.
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Therein lies the problem. While in theory, there shouldn't be a problem, there are apparently enough incidents to indicate there is one. Operator error or not, it's happening.
Not everyone can maintain the trigger discipline to engage the trigger finger to release the holster, then disengage the finger while drawing the gun, the re-engage the finger to position it on the gun at a lighter pressure, all while under stress of the exercise.
 
Firemedic54 said:
Like the blaming the fork that made me fat
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Serpa's are just dangerous if you are shooting under a clock, or under stress.
If you've got one, take that button off, or get rid of it.
 
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Firemedic54 said:
Like the blaming the fork that made me fat
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Point being, regardless of the blame, it doesn't make you less fat. It's not equipment failure, it's operator error. The design is just condusive to operator error.
 
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Same argument as the anti's use. Someone else uses a product in an unsafe manner, and blame the product and take them away from everyone. Hey it's California those holsters probably cause cancer in lab rats out there, to each his own.
 
Firemedic54 said:
Same argument as the anti's use. Someone else uses a product in an unsafe manner, and blame the product and take them away from everyone. Hey it's California those holsters probably cause cancer in lab rats out there, to each his own.
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I don't want to start a pissing match here, but it's pretty clear cut that when you draw fast from a holster that requires you to engage your trigger finger to draw the weapon every manner of shiite can go wrong.

You can argue your platitudes. We're just talking practical firearms safety here, it's not rocket surgery, and interestingly, most Serpas are owned by firearms novices. Heck, I even owned one at one time. You will never see one on the belt of an experienced shooter at a match. Ever.
 
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This is the same place that doubled their negligent discharges after they switched to M&Ps. They also had issues with their issued WMLs due to the fact they put a grip activation switch on them.http://www.latimes.com/local/california/la-me-sheriff-guns-20150614-story.html

Blaming one piece of the components that make up the "system of failure" is only allowing them to continue.

You have a holster that requires your finger to unlock, most of time I see people "poking" the button rather than indexing it along the holster during the draw, a light trigger pull on a gun with no manual safety being used during potentially high stress events.

Helen Keller could see how this goes.
I wonder how many people have Tex Grebner'd themselves drawing a DA/SA pistol from a Serpa, I'm going to say it's low.

Hopefully they took off their zipper pulls and jacket cords too.

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NCMedic said:
This is the same place that doubled their negligent discharges after they switched to M&Ps. They also had issues with their issued WMLs due to the fact they put a grip activation switch on them.http://www.latimes.com/local/california/la-me-sheriff-guns-20150614-story.html

Blaming one piece of the components that make up the "system of failure" is only allowing them to continue.

You have a holster that requires your finger to unlock, most of time I see people "poking" the button rather than indexing it along the holster during the draw, a light trigger pull on a gun with no manual safety being used during potentially high stress events.

Helen Keller could see how this goes.
I wonder how many people have Tex Grebner'd themselves drawing a DA/SA pistol from a Serpa, I'm going to say it's low.

Hopefully they took off their zipper pulls and jacket cords too.

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
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I agree to a point.. The context of who does not replace the issue of design of the holster.

The holster has more then the draw issue. I have had happen to me a small rock get wedged in the "button" while in Urban prone shooting my carbine.

Later on during a different event I had to transition to pistol and could not..

That ended my run with them.
 
I get that some folks are gonna like them.
But why would you have a Serpa when you can have the Safariland ALS? Way better locking mechanism and far more natural too.
Even if the Safariland had the exact same release as a Serpa, it's still 10x the holster for another 15 bucks.
 
I consider Safariland to be the gold standard in holster design, especially with retention systems. Not saying they are the coolest and sleekest, but definitely the most robust and functional. Solid.

I wasn't going to bring up the jamming of the retention system on the Sherpa's cause I didn't want to doing like I was beating up on them, but that's a known issue as well, for many years. Many people have them and love them and that's fine. Just know there may be issues and adapt the way you see fit. I have one as a training holster for others to use, but I tape off the retention system. I also have a non-retention version I like.
 
JBoyette said:
The holster has more then the draw issue. I have had happen to me a small rock get wedged in the "button" while in Urban prone shooting my carbine.

Later on during a different event I had to transition to pistol and could not..

That ended my run with them.
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I've also witness this issue first hand while overseas. My squad leader couldn't get his weapn out of the holster to clear it in the clearing barrel, due to debris gettig underneath the release button. We had to pry the button off with a Gerber to get the weapon out.

The argument of "just keep it clean then" doesn't apply in real world situations on a two-way range. Compund the debris issue with using your trigger finger to release the weapon, I think it's junk. There's a reason FLETC and a multitude of firearms instructors have banned the holster for use durring their classes.
 
I have a few. I use them when I carry a sidearm while hunting in rugged terrain. They seem to work well for that purpose. But for LE or carrying for self defense I would not recommend them.
 
Friday said:
I get that some folks are gonna like them.
But why would you have a Serpa when you can have the Safariland ALS? Way better locking mechanism and far more natural too.
Even if the Safariland had the exact same release as a Serpa, it's still 10x the holster for another 15 bucks.
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The bolded best summarizes my thoughts on the matter. Whether "its gunna git ya kilt" or not, there are MUCH better products on the market, made for the exact same purpose, that do the job better and aren't significantly more expensive. It's like paying $15k for a Yugo.
 
Amp Mangum said:
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Before I even watched the 2nd vid, I noticed this in the first one.
And Patrick Sweeney is no beginner either. Watching his finger curl up into the trigger is almost painful to watch. And you'll notice that he has his support hand just about in front of the barrel during the draw.
 
First let me say I do own a Serpa holster and find to be a decent cheap holster for taking in the woods. For me my trigger finger indexes along the slide when I draw from a Serpa so an ND hasn't ever been a concern.

However, when I went through the SC police academy there was a guy in our class from an agency that let them wear it on the their duty belt. During retention drills using a blue gun the student playing the bad guy ripped the gun right out of the holster and two chunks of plastic hit the floor. That's when I knew they weren't meant for hard use.
 
There's the other issue where guys have demonstrated they can rip the holster right off it's mounts. So, range use is ok, but nothing critical. I'm not big on retention anyway unless I'm working in an environment that requires it.
 
I like the G Code thumb drive if I'm wanting that type of retention. Plus it's adds another safety if you're carrying cocked and locked.
 
I have several of the Serpas. Use them on an almost daily basis. Love em.

I never wear them though.

They make great vehicle gun "holders".

I wear overalls 99% of the time. I always have a J-frame .357 in my pocket holster (S&W 60-14).

But sometimes I want a little more firepower, for whatever reason, usually predator targets of opportunity, and occasionally security type jaunts (checking on trespassers etc) and I find the Serpa a decent way to keep them on hand, loaded, and safe when "off body".

I have one mounted one my 4 wheeler, one in the off road farm truck, and two for the different tractors.

I've gotten them kinda dirty, especially on the 4 wheeler and tractors. I haven't had an issue yet, and even if I did, it's generally not gonna be a life and death (my life anyway) situation.

I've had to draw and shoot kinda fast a handful of times. Once when a snapping turtle was going after some of the baby ducks, coyote sightings, one bobcat issue, and a couple of other situations. The only one that came close to being an adrenaline dump was a feral dog pack situation that got a little hairy.

None of the above situations were under a match clock mindset, nor really the kind of adrenaline that one would experience with a human on human situation. But, when drawing from off body the "trigger finger curl" impulse does not seem to be as strong. So they work ok for my purposes.


SERPA 003.jpg
 
I had for my truck gun for a long time but I just switched over to the Blackhawk Ominvore
 
georgel said:
Therein lies the problem. While in theory, there shouldn't be a problem, there are apparently enough incidents to indicate there is one. Operator error or not, it's happening.
Not everyone can maintain the trigger discipline to engage the trigger finger to release the holster, then disengage the finger while drawing the gun, the re-engage the finger to position it on the gun at a lighter pressure, all while under stress of the exercise.
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Should we apply this logic to Glocks? I mean there is a condition called Glock leg after all. :D
 
good ole cali, a day late and a dollar short. seriously at this point who doesn't know about serpa-derps?
 
fieldgrade said:
Serpa's are just dangerous if you are shooting under a clock, or under stress.
If you've got one, take that button off, or get rid of it.
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Exactly. We're fine with them at the range because we're not trying to draw fast so we can get a few shots in at that unarmed guys back before someone else gets the kill credit!
 
I have several of them and I really like them. I practice over and over to keep my finger away from the trigger till I get to the low ready position for all holsters.
A guy I know had a negligent discharge with a leather holster while reholsering his XDS. The leather got into the trigger guard . He only had very minor injuries luckily. Anything could happen with any holster.

Bottom line is if you don't think it's safe for you don't use it.
 
I liked mine. I practiced quick draw nearly nightly with mine and never set it off. I didnt try anything special to not pull the trigger. My finger seems to land on the trigger guard with ease. I went to a N8squared and never looked back. I have a black hawk for my 1911 also. It came with the gun and i never used it. I like IWB and carry that way. A guy i worked with likes the urban carry holster. I lol when he told me. I thought he was joking. Its all in what you like. Maybe im smart enough to not shoot my dick off. You'll never see anyone at a competition using a blackhawk? So that means what? Its bad for drawing real fast and shooting targets.
 
Firemedic54 said:
Same argument as the anti's use. Someone else uses a product in an unsafe manner, and blame the product and take them away from everyone. Hey it's California those holsters probably cause cancer in lab rats out there, to each his own.
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Proposition 1 gazillion. Sherpa holsters cause cancer, lower IQ's, cause harm to Polar Bears, release toxic carcinogens, and have a button. Let's take the fro the public to make them safer.
 
Does that mean I can't CC in Los Angeles with my Serpa?

:D
 
I have loved mine until the other day. I set my M&P 40 on the safe top as I have a million times. The Serpa holster was what it was in. I know it was locked in. Well lo and behold the mechanism broke that allowed the retention. The weapon came tumbling out onto the floor. I thought man I ain't never done that before and possibly hadn't locked it in but was swearing I had. So I got to looking at it and that was when I noted the broken lever thingy. I called their customer service and they are sending me a replacement part. I don't know that I will use it or not, as I will likely just use my pancake holster until I order another chief Jason one.
 
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Mightyox04 said:
You'll never see anyone at a competition using a blackhawk? So that means what? Its bad for drawing real fast and shooting targets.
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Blackhawk Serpa. No, it means they have been banned from most competitions from the people who run those competitions.

Because they saw too many negligent discharges from them.
 
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