Good article from TTAG on an overlooked safety issue, warning graphic photo at end of the article.
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2018/08...ium=manual
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2018/08...ium=manual
Article Don't rest the shotgun barrel on your foot.
- Thread starter Button Pusher
- Start date
- Replies 34
- Views 1,512
If you're stupid enough to place a LOADED gun on your foot, well you must not need that foot.
I put my gun on my foot every time after I shoot. I shoot with O/U's and their always broken open and obviously unloaded and rest on a toe pad. It takes 9.5 pounds out of my hands and lessens fatigue...
I put my gun on my foot every time after I shoot. I shoot with O/U's and their always broken open and obviously unloaded and rest on a toe pad. It takes 9.5 pounds out of my hands and lessens fatigue...
Two words “ release trigger”. The guy had a trigger that fire when released. There was a problem with the trap. He put the gun on his foot and released the trigger. The one issue I have heard of happened like that. Wouldn’t be surprised if it’s that one.
In summary, present less than the facts. Draw the wrong conclusion on what happened. Make a broad, sweeping generalization when you don’t know what you are talking about.
Mine goes on my foot between stations. Broken open and unloaded.
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In summary, present less than the facts. Draw the wrong conclusion on what happened. Make a broad, sweeping generalization when you don’t know what you are talking about.
Mine goes on my foot between stations. Broken open and unloaded.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Reminds me of this story:
https://ryanjarcy.wordpress.com/2013/03/31/how-i-blew-off-a-leg-with-a-12-gauge-shotgun-part-one/
https://ryanjarcy.wordpress.com/2013/03/31/how-i-blew-off-a-leg-with-a-12-gauge-shotgun-part-one/
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Google "shotgun shoe rest", then click images.
I think it's an accepted practice, although I'm not a clays shooter, I have friends who are.
UNloaded of course.
I think it's an accepted practice, although I'm not a clays shooter, I have friends who are.
UNloaded of course.
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Crunchy Frog
Happy to be here
My home club has round rubber discs, maybe six or eight inches in diameter, sitting on the concrete pads of the trap and skeet fields. If you just must rest the muzzle of your shotgun, better there than on your foot.
I'll continue to rest my shotgun on my toe when I please.
Why? Because I know it's not loaded. I load one shell in for trap, typically one for skeet unless its a two bird position.
That's it. Nothing to harm me when I do it.
Dont be scared of something because some idiot got hurt doing it idiotically
Why? Because I know it's not loaded. I load one shell in for trap, typically one for skeet unless its a two bird position.
That's it. Nothing to harm me when I do it.
Dont be scared of something because some idiot got hurt doing it idiotically
Our sporting clays has wooden racks at every station. I use them a lot too. Or tossed over my shoulder with the barrel to the front in my hand. Or on my foot broken open.
In a handgun match, it makes sense not to point at anything. Even with a slide locked open it's not easy to tell sometimes. Or at a rifle match, you can't always see a bolt open or removed. But a shotgun broken in half is pretty easy to spot.
And in sporting clays, trap, or skeet the shotgun is required to be broken open, or bolt open on semi, unless you are on stand and shooting. Which leads me back to my story. The reason I think the article and my story are one in the same is the guy didn't come out of the stand he was shooting. He was waiting on the trap to be cleared when he put it on his foot. So he didn't keep his loaded gun in a safe direction, down range of the stand. The important part here is to break the gun open before doing this. I've never seen a closed OU rested on a foot. Mainly because your are not supposed to have a closed OU outside the station unless it's going in or coming out of the rack.
In a handgun match, it makes sense not to point at anything. Even with a slide locked open it's not easy to tell sometimes. Or at a rifle match, you can't always see a bolt open or removed. But a shotgun broken in half is pretty easy to spot.
And in sporting clays, trap, or skeet the shotgun is required to be broken open, or bolt open on semi, unless you are on stand and shooting. Which leads me back to my story. The reason I think the article and my story are one in the same is the guy didn't come out of the stand he was shooting. He was waiting on the trap to be cleared when he put it on his foot. So he didn't keep his loaded gun in a safe direction, down range of the stand. The important part here is to break the gun open before doing this. I've never seen a closed OU rested on a foot. Mainly because your are not supposed to have a closed OU outside the station unless it's going in or coming out of the rack.
So, some of you think it is OK not to follow the 4 rules, sometimes, “because I won’t screw up”.
OK. I don’t remember a shotgun exception for any of those rules.
Maybe, for an opened break-open. Otherwise, dumb. As for me, I will continue to not muzzle sweep myself unless the gun is in multiple pieces on the cleaning bench. Like chamber, trigger, bolt, and hammer are not all still attached to each other (depending on gun type of course). Maybe I am just picky.
OK. I don’t remember a shotgun exception for any of those rules.
Maybe, for an opened break-open. Otherwise, dumb. As for me, I will continue to not muzzle sweep myself unless the gun is in multiple pieces on the cleaning bench. Like chamber, trigger, bolt, and hammer are not all still attached to each other (depending on gun type of course). Maybe I am just picky.
So if it's broke open over your shoulder between stations do you not think you are sweeping yourself with the barrel? I make holsters, do you not think I sweep myself with unloaded guns all the time? Sure, treat a gun like it's loaded until you can verify it's not. But if you verify it's unloaded, things can change.
BTW, do you carry a gun? In a holster? Because I can guarantee you that you sweep yourself putting the gun in the holster or taking it out. You can act like you don't. You can convince yourself you don't. And you would be wrong. I make holsters. I deal with them every day. You cannot get a gun in a holster on your body without sweeping. And you can't remove it without sweeping either.
There's being careful, and there is being ridiculous. You take your pick, I'll take mine.
Being a bird hunter, we used to make all the skeet and trap guys mad every year when we went to brush up before the season started. We, my hunting partner and I, would start by holding the gun down with the safety on. We wouldn't tell each other what clay we would be throwing or if they would be doubles. It burned the purists up to no end that we didn't do it exactly in order. I think what burned them up even more was that we normally out shot them too!
Anyway, put your gun on your toe or testicles if you want, just don't point it at mine.
Anyway, put your gun on your toe or testicles if you want, just don't point it at mine.
Nothing wrong with low gun that's how Olympic skeet is shot, ALL low gun, including #8.......
I do the same thing before bird season comes in with my hunting guns, all low gun.......
I do the same thing before bird season comes in with my hunting guns, all low gun.......
Broke open separates the chamber from the hammer. I have shot some skeet and trap and I am OK with that.
You are partly right about the holster. I have a gun in a holster on my bedside table that I walk past. But guns don’t go off just sitting around. I don’t worry about walking over/under a safe with loaded guns in it either.
I am very careful not to sweep myself holstering. It is possible to avoid both for carry and competition. There is no reason to holster fast. As an RO I hate it when people holster fast, especially when the point the thing at their hip to find the holster and then angle it in. Stupid. I never holster my carry hot on my hip unless practicing at the range. Any other time the gun and holster are a unit.
Thinking about it, unholstering I could possibly sweep when I draw moving and my right leg is out and forward. I will think about how to avoid that. Normally my gun is vertical on a plane that doesn’t intercept me, and it stays on that plane as I draw. Every shooting sport I am aware of will DQ for sweeping yourself or anyone else with a hot unholstered gun, especially during the draw.
It isn’t about being ridiculous, it’s about being consistent. If I am not always rigorous about it, I am more likely to make a mistake.
Earlier when I mentioned DQ's, I was referring to rifle, shotgun, and multigun matches, not pistols. They are required to be: mags out, chamber flagged, and must not sweep anybody (including self) getting from the case/cart to the line, or any other time.
I think we all understand we are talking about guns in peoples hands here though.
The main thing I take from this: somehow this dude was in the habit of resting the gun on his foot. In a moment of not thinking, he defaulted to habit. I guess it is up to you to decide whether its a bad habit? Seems the proof is in the pudding here. At least it is to me.
The problem isn't the type of trigger, or the type of gun, its that the gun was resting on his foot when the trigger was activated. Why was the gun resting on his foot? Habit. Because its a perfectly acceptable practice in this discipline apparently.
I think we all understand we are talking about guns in peoples hands here though.
The main thing I take from this: somehow this dude was in the habit of resting the gun on his foot. In a moment of not thinking, he defaulted to habit. I guess it is up to you to decide whether its a bad habit? Seems the proof is in the pudding here. At least it is to me.
The problem isn't the type of trigger, or the type of gun, its that the gun was resting on his foot when the trigger was activated. Why was the gun resting on his foot? Habit. Because its a perfectly acceptable practice in this discipline apparently.
Glock leg does not just come from the Sherpa holster. It comes from getting on the trigger just a bit too fast, and the fact that at some point in the holster/unholster movement you will sweep yourself. Personally, I consider trigger finger control the most important part of that process. You can't pull what you don't touch. And carrying a gun that close to your body, it's covering something on the way in and out.
One of the few ways it "might" not cover is the harsh angle, over 20 degrees, carried at the hip. But I'm pretty sure those will too. Any IWB holster and every OWB but those that are offset require you to angle the muzzle slightly in to begin holstering it. And that tends to be reversed on the way out. Muzzle moves in and back. Putting the holster/gun combo on together is a good way to alleviate some of that.
BTW, it's not exactly to be argumentative. In the process of making holsters you start to realize some of this. I would rather folks understand the idea that they are sweeping themselves and need to take that into account than believe they are not and something happens. Once you realize what's going on, you start to focus on things like clothing interfering and trigger finger placement because it's not going to be pretty if it goes wrong.
And one guy not paying attention makes it all wrong? Consider how many folks out there shoot. How often. We do close to 100 shooter rounds on a weekend of sporting clays at the club. Say half the guys do that, 50 shooters, 10 stations, 50 shots. 2 weekends a month. I've been there 5 years. We've never had it happen. Is it something to consider? Sure. Is it something to worry about? Maybe. Is it a problem in the sport? Just for that guy. It's simply not an issue because it happens once.
I don't buy that argument. If you're sweeping yourself when you holster or draw you're doing something wrong.
I also don't appreciate getting muzzled every single time I go to a shotgun range. That's just the way it is. They are all anal about gun safety in their own way, but Col. Cooper never made much headway with those folks.
I also don't appreciate getting muzzled every single time I go to a shotgun range. That's just the way it is. They are all anal about gun safety in their own way, but Col. Cooper never made much headway with those folks.
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You go ahead and point yours wherever you want. I ain't trying to change your mind. Just having a logical discussion about gun safety in an accidental shooting thread on a gun forum.
I think its a habit that can lead to someone shooting a 12ga hole through their foot, so I think I'll avoid doing it.
Edit: And, I don't sweep myself drawing or re-holstering my gun.
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RedneckFur
Smith & Wesson is a religion of peace.
1. Treat every gun as if its loaded.
2. Never point a gun at anything you're not willing to kill/destroy.
When you put a shotgun muzzle on your foot, you're breaking both rules.
Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
2. Never point a gun at anything you're not willing to kill/destroy.
When you put a shotgun muzzle on your foot, you're breaking both rules.
Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
Pay attention. I mean REALLY pay attention. A straight line imagined from the muzzle to out is going to cross something in the process. If you think you can get your gun in and out of a CC holster without muzzling something, you are not paying really close attention. These guys shooting themselves on the draw are doing it by getting their finger on the trigger too fast, while it's muzzling something. It's not just a lazy draw. The gun is too close to the body not to cover something. The guys that shoot themselves reholstering by finger in trigger guard or catching something in the trigger, because they are muzzling themselves. Not from bad form, because of proximity and how close the holsters carry. It's why you really need to pay attention to the other stuff. If you think you are not doing it, you're wrong. IWB, OWB, shoulder, pocket, AIWB; at some point for a brief amount of time it happens.
Keep in mind that Cooper's rule one applies until you personally verify it's unloaded. I work with guns every day. I have to muzzle and sweep myself every day making holsters. I have to see them from every angle, mold them, put them together. IN some cases I am using real guns. I verify they are clear, and go to work.
Keep in mind that Cooper's rule one applies until you personally verify it's unloaded. I work with guns every day. I have to muzzle and sweep myself every day making holsters. I have to see them from every angle, mold them, put them together. IN some cases I am using real guns. I verify they are clear, and go to work.
I just checked. Nope. No muzzle sweep drawing or holstering in a normal stance. Supertuck angled back maybe 15 degrees. On my hip bone (widest part of me) so there is room to keep it vertical (actually on me the muzzle is slightly out of vertical away from my feet as carried). Slight wrist turn out after I draw so muzzle tracks to my right away from my leg and foot.
Competition holsters are OWB with barrels vertical (1911 and 2011). My stance at the buzzer is slightly shifted right so that my right leg is vertical for exactly this reason. Reholstering is careful and also does not sweep.
I am completely paranoid about shirt or anything in the holster. When I draw (1911 ergos 99% of the time) safety comes off at about 45 deg low ready and finger on trigger during extension.
938 in a pocket holster would likely sweep me if I drew it in a hurry.
All that said, I am probably not typical.
No, it most certainly does not. Here's Coopers rules from his wiki page:
EDIT: And, man it is beyond annoying that you think we are so stupid that we can't "pay attention" to where our muzzle is! JimP is an experienced Range Safety officer and competes in many shooting sports!
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Ever use a bore brush on a rifle? Ever use a bore snake? Do you verify it's unloaded then feel comfortable cleaning the gun and sweeping yourself with the muzzle? Treat everything like it's loaded? We don't. We can't. Sometimes you verify it's unloaded and move on. Sometimes we can actually get too anal about this stuff. To the point of near absurdity. Depends on where you see them. I'll guarantee you they are out there that reference until you verify it's unloaded. Taken to the extreme, if we are to follow rule #1 we can't clean guns, try on holsters, dry fire, etc. But that's not how that works is it?
It's not about stupid. It's about assuming things that can make you complacent about the wrong things. If you assume you don't muzzle yourself, you can get complacent on other things because "you don't muzzle yourself." When you realize you actually do muzzle yourself, it makes you laser focused on those activities where it happens, like holstering and drawing. I'd rather see folks focused on the right things rather than assuming the wrong things.
Cool. You make valid points and I respect your opinion man.
But, none the less, I think stories like this should serve to remind us being complacent and to make us have a really good look at our gun safety habits.
I know of a couple of guys that have the #12 vent in one foot or the other and both were caused by auto's.....
This is similar to how I acquired my first semi auto .22 when I was a kid. Rabbit hunting with my Grandfather and his youngest brother, Virgil and a couple of others. Got out of the truck and everyone was loading up and when Virgil pulled the bolt to the rear to load the first round (he had it on his boot tip) and turned it loose it went off. Bullet went between his big toe and the long toe. He dropped the gun on the ground and sat down to see the damage. Once he figured he was going to live he looked at me and asked if I wanted "that damned gun". I looked at my Grandfather and he said it was okay. I picked it up, unloaded it and put it back in the truck as I wasn't allowed to hunt with the grown ups just yet. Grandfather cleaned it really good and never could replicate the AD/ND and I got to shoot it over the years....
This is similar to how I acquired my first semi auto .22 when I was a kid. Rabbit hunting with my Grandfather and his youngest brother, Virgil and a couple of others. Got out of the truck and everyone was loading up and when Virgil pulled the bolt to the rear to load the first round (he had it on his boot tip) and turned it loose it went off. Bullet went between his big toe and the long toe. He dropped the gun on the ground and sat down to see the damage. Once he figured he was going to live he looked at me and asked if I wanted "that damned gun". I looked at my Grandfather and he said it was okay. I picked it up, unloaded it and put it back in the truck as I wasn't allowed to hunt with the grown ups just yet. Grandfather cleaned it really good and never could replicate the AD/ND and I got to shoot it over the years....