For Self Defense: Red Dot vs Iron Sights

I love my red dots on the few guns that have them. With that being said, if someone wants to learn to shoot correctly they need to learn with iron sights.

My wife does not shoot much but when she goes to the range, I give her the Browning with the red dot because she like hitting the target. If she shoots one without the red dot she is lucky to hit the paper. The red dot makes her feel good.
 
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I do have one gun with a laser. Only because it comes on with the weapon light.

I use laser to play with my cats.
 
I love my red dots on the few guns that have them. With that being said, if someone wants to learn to shoot correctly they need to learn with iron sights.

My wife does not shoot much but when she goes to the range, I give her the Browning with the red dot because she like hitting the target. It she shoots one without the red dot she is lucky to hit the paper. The red dot makes her feel good.

Completely disagree.

The sighting system has noting to do with learning how to shoot. It has everything in learning how to aim.

Best bang is the easiest, most fun system and target for that person
 
If you have ever hunted with a red dot, this is an easy question. Even with astigmatism and especially aging eyes, the RDS is gonna win every time if you are aiming at all. Instinctive shooting in a defensive situation really doesn't matter, ain't that right @BatteryOaksBilly ? That's why they sold a bazillion pocket guns with 'gutter' sights to be used within 10 yards.
 
JBoyette, I think we are saying the same thing about learning how to shoot. I feel that you need to learn how to shoot with iron sights (aiming) just in case the red dot battery goes dead or the sight gets broken. My wifes likes hitting the bullseye and she is having fun. As I stated, my wife is not a gun person and if she does go to the range I want it to be fun and not work.
If that is not you interpretation of my post, then we disagree.
 
JBoyette, I think we are saying the same thing about learning how to shoot. I feel that you need to learn how to shoot with iron sights (aiming) just in case the red dot battery goes dead or the sight gets broken. My wifes likes hitting the bullseye and she is having fun. As I stated, my wife is not a gun person and if she does go to the range I want it to be fun and not work.
If that is not you interpretation of my post, then we disagree.

I agree,

I am just splitting hairs :)
 
If you have ever hunted with a red dot, this is an easy question. Even with astigmatism and especially aging eyes, the RDS is gonna win every time if you are aiming at all. Instinctive shooting in a defensive situation really doesn't matter, ain't that right @BatteryOaksBilly ? That's why they sold a bazillion pocket guns with 'gutter' sights to be used within 10 yards.


Thank you Baby Jesus....another thinking man.
 
These are called movies. The one thing i have learned over the years as it relates to shooting is everything you see in movies is for entertainment. These are not documentaries.

V
What I have found is that government organizations do not necessarily pick the best, most modern tools available either. As an example .... it took many years for Spec Ops to start moving to striker fired pistols despite the availably since 1980s. So, often documentaries do not necessarily clarify things for us either. :(
 
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Are we talking rifles or handguns? For me rifles Red Dots for handguns iron sights. The dots for handguns are just not there yet. They are the future but the tech is not there yet IMHO. Ken Hackathorn expressed this opinion in a training session some of us took with him last year. When used properly and when they work properly they are faster and more accurate. Seals are not your avg joe with a bedside pistol. If you do not know how to run that red dot you are setting yourself up for failure.

I see people all the time "chasing the dot" with handgun optics. Their presentation is wrong and they can't find it. The background washed it out etc... If you are going to use a RDS on a pistol you need to train hard with it. Your presentation has to be drilled into your muscles so it is perfect everytime if not you will be "chasing the dot."

For shouldered guns they work better. Super fast minute of man in any distance I am actually going to have to shoot a person in. Aimpoints are on every rifle I would consider using in self defense. The sight radius changes the game IMHO.
 
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@BatteryOaksBilly, I'll be seeing you guys this weekend, and I'll have the blaster with the RMR ready for you to take a spin, as well as anyone else who would like to try it.

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Are we talking rifles or handguns? For me rifles Red Dots for handguns iron sights. The dots for handguns are just not there yet. They are the future but the tech is not there yet IMHO. Ken Hackathorn expressed this opinion in a training session some of us took with him last year. When used properly and when they work properly they are faster and more accurate. Seals are not your avg joe with a bedside pistol. If you do not know how to run that red dot you are setting yourself up for failure.

I see people all the time "chasing the dot" with handgun optics. Their presentation is wrong and they can't find it. The background washed it out etc... If you are going to use a RDS on a pistol you need to train hard with it. Your presentation has to be drilled into your muscles so it is perfect everytime if not you will be "chasing the dot."

It's simply a training issue, not a technology issue. The fact that they are being used more prevalently with competition shooters and the military is a pretty good gauge that they aren't going away. You are right; if you are going to use it, you need to train with it.
 
What I have found is that government organizations do not necessarily pick the best, most modern tools available either. As an example .... it took many years for Spec Ops to start moving to striker fired pistols despite the availably since 1980s. So, often documentaries do not necessarily clarify things for us either. :(

When you have power houses in uniform that have killed more people then small pox using standard issue 1911's who would want to go to a 92FS?

When the young bloods surpass the old hands and say they want a G22 they get a G22.

Now the new breed has it all due to the generations of past performance.
 
Dang! I'll be there Saturday, just got the word from you-know-who! Maybe next time. Have fun, I know I will!!
Oh, I'm sure I can make an appearance both days, lol.

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Oh, I'm sure I can make an appearance both days, lol.

Sent from my LM-Q710.FG using Tapatalk
That would be cool.....
I'm honored! You can see my UNIQUE G19! It's different from any other on the planet, and I'll show you why....lol. I'll have the 1911 Springfield .45, too...another unique gun....
 
Correct. Add this to sight alignment and trigger press and the hand gun is mastered. Figure at least a year..shooting every day.

Which most people are not doing. IMHO. Too many people are putting them on self defense guns because they see that Seals are using them. They don't shoot enough with standard sights to master draw, grip and presentation and when you move to a red dot you up the requirement. IMHO

"[URL='https://www.carolinafirearmsforum.com/index.php?members/chuckman.179/' said:
Chuckman[/URL], It's simply a training issue, not a technology issue. The fact that they are being used more prevalently with competition shooters and the military is a pretty good gauge that they aren't going away. You are right; if you are going to use it, you need to train with it.

I think it is both a tech and a training issue. The window for proper usage is too narrow for all but the most dedicated shooters. You need a ton of time behind that gun in order for it to work everytime. The window for proper usage of standard sights is IMHO much higher. The avg shooter is never going to put in enough time to be 100% with the current tech. I sometimes think people who are really into shooting and shoot a lot over estimate how much range time the avg concealed carry holder or person with a home defense pistol shoots. IMHO
 
Which most people are not doing. IMHO. Too many people are putting them on self defense guns because they see that Seals are using them. They don't shoot enough with standard sights to master draw, grip and presentation and when you move to a red dot you up the requirement. IMHO
I think it is both a tech and a training issue. The window for proper usage is too narrow for all but the most dedicated shooters. You need a ton of time behind that gun in order for it to work everytime. The window for proper usage of standard sights is IMHO much higher. The avg shooter is never going to put in enough time to be 100% with the current tech. I sometimes think people who are really into shooting and shoot a lot over estimate how much range time the avg concealed carry holder or person with a home defense pistol shoots. IMHO

While i agree with your sentiment about average shooters training very little wholeheartedly, the red dot is simpler to understand for new shooters imo. You have a dot to worry about, you don't have to focus on front and rear site. I don't use one on a pistol yet regularly, but i know on a rifle or PCC you can give someone who has little training and tell them to put the dot on the target and press the trigger. It is easier. It's good for those of us who can't see good up close too. I think dot sites are the future of handguns. No matter how much some people don't like them. It is an evolution.

V
 
While i agree with your sentiment about average shooters training very little wholeheartedly, the red dot is simpler to understand for new shooters imo. You have a dot to worry about, you don't have to focus on front and rear site. I don't use one on a pistol yet regularly, but i know on a rifle or PCC you can give someone who has little training and tell them to put the dot on the target and press the trigger. It is easier. It's good for those of us who can't see good up close too. I think dot sites are the future of handguns. No matter how much some people don't like them. It is an evolution.

V

I agree it is the future but for me the future is not now. ;)
 
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