DON'T Do This To Your Guns
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I agree, i was listening to a podcast about 1911's a few weeks ago and they had me ready to go out and buy one again. Unfortunately, to get a 1911 that will shoot any ammo and work flawlessly like a typical Sig or Glock, the entry level market seems to be about 4 grand price point and this is according to guys who make 1911's for a living and know what they are doing. Your Kimber or Springfield just don't work like those custom guns do. I would love to have one, but i don't plan on buying one any time soon.
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I rarely drop a slide on an empty chamber, mostly because I don't see a point in doing it, when I can reset the striker by pulling it back half way and letting it forward again.
Now flipping open/closed a revolver cylinder... that's a good way to make sure you never get invited out to shoot my revolvers again.
Now flipping open/closed a revolver cylinder... that's a good way to make sure you never get invited out to shoot my revolvers again.
Meh...not in my experience...but it isn't all that extensive. The Rock Island 1911 series have all been pretty rock solid in my experience. I think the disconnect is that there are more "lemons" in the low end 1911 market, not a general lack of performance across the board. If you find one that works, if just works on and on. Also, I am always wary of taking people who make a living making and selling $4,000 firearms telling me that anything less than a $4,000 firearm wont work. What those "custom" guns bring to the table is that they have already been vetted for "lemons", their fit and finish will be more refined, their small parts will perhaps have more intricate and delicate machining, and they will be tested. But...at times, with those higher tolerances can come their own list of problems.
In short, don't write off <$1,000 1911 offerings because someone who builds $4,000 1911's tells you they are junk.
Yup! That is the way I was taught and to this day I will clear my 1911 that way (I do point it down range or at the dresser if at home). Never ever have had a problem either. If the gun breaks then it was not built right! I do not baby any of my pistols.
I do not flip my revolvers closed though. I was taught to always close the cylinder by hand.
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It always seemed odd to me that:
A) I never heard of one actually breaking doing that (not that it hasnāt happened somewhere sometime), and
B) Dropping the slide is more violent and stressful than 45 ball cycling the action? Really? Hard to believe.
That said, I donāt drop the slide on a round in the chamber. The extractor isnāt designed to hit the rim and be forced over it. That does break extractors.
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A) I never heard of one actually breaking doing that (not that it hasnāt happened somewhere sometime), and
B) Dropping the slide is more violent and stressful than 45 ball cycling the action? Really? Hard to believe.
That said, I donāt drop the slide on a round in the chamber. The extractor isnāt designed to hit the rim and be forced over it. That does break extractors.
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Traveling forward the round being stripped off the magazine slows the slide so the impact isn't so hard on the gun.
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I know that's the theory. I don't really believe it. The round goes off and in a fraction of a second it yanks the barrel down out of the locking lugs, the slide flies back and returns to battery. My brain says that in theory the abrupt stop after dropping the slide manually could be more acceleration/stress than the "gradual" movement of the various parts as it cycles under recoil, but my gut says that the recoil operated cycling is more energetic. My gut could be wrong.
It also means that all the people that set up competition 1911/2011s to not lock back on empty (and there are quite a few) are taking a chance with running dry and cycling with an empty mag. If that were really a problem, they would have discovered it by now.
Why is the only option to buy a custom 1911 for carry and reliability? The 1911 is a very old design, with modern machining it should be easy to make a good 1911 with out hand fitting all the parts. Shit, you can purchase an off the shelf AR-15 that is capable of shooting 3/4 MOA groups with factory match ammo.
Competition, IDPA or USPSA, at the end of the course of fire, the range commands are If you are finished, unload and show clear, If clear, slide forward (or cylinder closed), Pull the trigger, Holster
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I'm an IDPA Safety Officer. Dropping the slide on an empty chamber in the fashion I'm assuming you're suggesting is not required.
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But, but, but the God Almighty EXPERTS say to NOT do that, what in hell is wrong with you people??
I have numerous 1911's, some pure target guns and the rest are carry guns. On my BEST target guns, please don't do that, the triggers have been worked down to 1.5# or less and the sear engagements are slight and critical to tolerances. On my carry 1911's help yourself to lower the slide in any fashion you so desire short of a hammer to the rear of the slide, please don't do that.....
I hate to keep quoting my Grandmother but, "don't believe anything you hear and only half of what you see".... BoobToob experts....
I've heard lots of people say there guns are fine, but i wonder if you run them very hard? Most people don't shoot their guns much, so they go around thinking their firearms are good. Then you go to a class where you shoot 500-700 rounds in a day and you find out you have problems all sorts of problems with guns and gear. This is what i have seen with my own eyes. My experience is mostly from training classes and i am usually at one 4-6 times a month. You quickly see what works and what doesn't. People have a lot invested in their guns and make excuses when they have issues. Think of a training class is a lot of compressing a lot of your normal range time over a few year into one day. Competition guys no doubt see the same things. You run your gun hard and you see what works and what doesn't. Now you could say it sits in a safe and is pretty to look at, that i could buy into. If you don't ever shoot it has a flawless record when it comes to failures.
i am asking: did you actually attend an IDPA RO class or are you self appointed?
First: The, if finished, unload and show clear command. On a semi auto I will remove the magazine. As most stages are usually finished with a live round in the chamber. I am then going to pull my slide back to extract/eject that round ...with me so far. Now, Iām going to look to see that the chamber is indeed clear. While still holding the slide back I am going to show you, the RO, that the chamber is clear. When YOU tell me that the weapon is clear. Iām going to, with my hand still grasping the slide lower the slide, point weapons down range (not down at my feet or at a wall or other prop in front of us) and pull the trigger allowing the hammer to fall in itās normal manner.
Iām going to do the same thing if the slide is locked back on my XDm, Glock or my 1911 single stack or race gun.
What do you do after the unload and show clear command?
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That's exactly what he is saying. It's not necessary to lock the slide back and then drop it.
Well i am gonna say you probably don't
As i said in my post, a training class where you shoot 100's of rounds in a session is an example of running your guns. After you have done this a few times with your gun or runs some competitions where you actually shoot it a lot, the question answers itself. I shoot whatever is on sale and a lot of it and i rarely clean my guns. Every few thousand rounds whether they need it or not. I shot maybe 800 rounds of 9mm this weekend through two guns. One was 80 percent of the rounds and the other the remainder. I shot 500 rounds or so of Butters new blue 9mm and the rest were assorted blazer or Privi (i think). This was slow aimed dot drills, from the holster with the timer, move and shoot, speed drills, 5-25 yards drills, all kinds of fun stuff. The gun got really hot, the mags got dirty from being dropped. The gun was dirty before i started and got more so. The following day i spent some range time by myself working on some problems i had during class the day before. That is an example of running the gun hard. If you would like to try it please looking into Apex Defense Group class this next weekend and come out and shoot with us. They are in the Training section here on CFF.V
Well, I thought I shot my guns a LOT....I now suppose I don't! LoL. I'll try to shoot a lot at B.Oaks Saturday!Well i am gonna say you probably don't
V
I agree the Apex class I took was very cool!
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Far be it for me to try to correct someone as experienced and successful in shooting as you are. However, you obviously meant SO or Safety Officer, not RO or Range Officer. There is no such thing as RO in IDPA nomenclature. And XDms and Glocks don't have hammers, but we know you meant "global hammers" including strikers.
And if you finish an IDPA stage by shooting the last bullet in a magazine, your slide should lock back. You can "show clear'" without having to manipulate the slide, and then have a choice of racking the slide to close it or releasing the slide catch.
As my hands get older and more arthritic, I find it helpful to drop the mag, rack the last bullet out of the chamber and engage the slide lock mechanism. That allows me to show the SO and myself the chamber is empty without having my hand in the way, and without added pressure of holding the slide back. Then as above I have a choice of two methods of releasing the slide.
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Don't ever do this, huh?
Know what I do with my colt 1991A1 whenever I'm done cleaning and reassembling it?
I manually function check it through full range of motion on the moving parts, including dropping the slide on an empty chamber from the slide release.
Big effin' deal.
There are lots of mechanical things one could say one should "never do" with your firearm, but honestly...stuff like this shouldn't be a "never do" item, mechanically speaking. We're not talking about firing pin damage on a .22LR by impingment on the breechface, here. We're not talking about using the butt of the gun to hammer wanted posters up outside the Long Branch Saloon.
My 1991A1 is my carry piece. It's not some chrome plated, custom engraved, tuned-trigger show piece to be babied. If it can't handle me dropping the slide on an empty chamber, then WTF would I want it, much less carry it?
Yeah, I get it...don't do this all the time, and don't do it with someone else's gun. But let's be realistic here about the probablity of any damage.
Know what I do with my colt 1991A1 whenever I'm done cleaning and reassembling it?
I manually function check it through full range of motion on the moving parts, including dropping the slide on an empty chamber from the slide release.
Big effin' deal.
There are lots of mechanical things one could say one should "never do" with your firearm, but honestly...stuff like this shouldn't be a "never do" item, mechanically speaking. We're not talking about firing pin damage on a .22LR by impingment on the breechface, here. We're not talking about using the butt of the gun to hammer wanted posters up outside the Long Branch Saloon.
My 1991A1 is my carry piece. It's not some chrome plated, custom engraved, tuned-trigger show piece to be babied. If it can't handle me dropping the slide on an empty chamber, then WTF would I want it, much less carry it?
Yeah, I get it...don't do this all the time, and don't do it with someone else's gun. But let's be realistic here about the probablity of any damage.
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Haha you shoot your guns way more than average Millie
I am way way more average, i am sure there is some competition folks on here who shoot more than me.he's right on revolvers the cylinder is on a hinge only common sense says don't go swinging it around. but the way you cycle a slide isn't going to harm it, maybe you don't want to do it 1,000 times a day
What is it with people that don't clean their guns? I do/did all kinds of things that my life depends on my equipment. Cave dive, SWAT medic, High Angle Technical Rescue, Haz-Mat.... all the /my equipment is cleaned and inspected after each training or use. Maybe its an emergency services thing... Or my Grandpa telling me to "take care of everything cause its expensive and you paid good money for it" "Clean it up, don't leave it out". .
My shooting is way down now that it's so hot at Jim's....but in the fall/winter? Watch out ammo makers! I'll be buying a lot of it! LoL.Haha you shoot your guns way more than average Millie
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My bone stock Springfield "Black Stainless Loaded" has never given me a lick of trouble with piss poor hand loads, high dollar hollow points, factory magazines, aftermarket magazines....it's runs just fine and far more accurately than me.