How many of you own an unregistered AOW?

They all ready have.




Nah. They just add in " except when we want to".
Just finished reading the Federalist No.10 James Madison said,
"The instability, injustice, and confusion introduced into public councils, have, in truth, been the mortal diseases under which popular governments have everywhere perished; as they continue to be the favorite and fruitful topics from which adversaries to liberty derive their most specious declamations."
This whole paper written in 1787 rings so true in my ears, to the things We face today.
 
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We the people need to tell Congress, there is only one classification and its arms not to be infringed.

CD

Completely off topic: I read your signature and for a Combat "Diver" it looks like you have spent a lot of time in the desert...did they find some water over there for you? In any case, that is a LONG list of deployments...thank you for taking the fight to them for all these years!
 
Can someone condense this for my tired brain?

If I don't have a vertical foregrip and or a folding stock what the ever loving hell does my shockwave equipped AR pistol need to measure, in order to satisfy the Kings Men today?
 
Can someone condense this for my tired brain?

If I don't have a vertical foregrip and or a folding stock what the ever loving hell does my shockwave equipped AR pistol need to measure, in order to satisfy the Kings Men today?
If they ask...just tell them "I'm grandfathered in", since Sept 25, 1789
Artical the 4th
Ratification completed Dec.15 1791. Then say...I need an lawyer, and be quiet.
 
Can someone condense this for my tired brain?

If I don't have a vertical foregrip and or a folding stock what the ever loving hell does my shockwave equipped AR pistol need to measure, in order to satisfy the Kings Men today?
At least 26”.
 
Can someone condense this for my tired brain?

If I don't have a vertical foregrip and or a folding stock what the ever loving hell does my shockwave equipped AR pistol need to measure, in order to satisfy the Kings Men today?
What I take away from it is, your AR pistol can be eight inches long, length doesn't matter as long as it doesn't have a VFG. Still just a 'pistol'.
If you install a VFG on the eight inch AR pistol, now it becomes taboo as pistols aren't allowed to have a VFG. If you put a VFG on a G19 it would also be taboo.
If the pistol has a fixed stock, (which doesn't include your shockwave as it is adjustable) and the overall length is 26" or greater, then technically it's a rifle and you can have the VFG.
25 and 7/8"? No VFG for you...heathen.
Sum...pistols are to be used with one hand. VFG's that ease the use of two hands on a pistol are bad. Bad bad man.
Rifles are to be used with two hands. VFG's are ok since it's a two handed gig anyway.

I have no idea of what law you're breaking by firing a long gun with just one hand, but there probably is one.

If I'm off base someone please correct me. My Attorney and I are busy drafting a pre-emptive defense of can't no-one understand this s**t and the charge must be null and voided under the 'any reasonable person' doctrine the government itself has established as the baseline between good and bad. Whether I broke the law or not is irrelevant, since 'any reasonable person' is unable to define just what the hell this cluster***k law is supposed to mean.
 
If the pistol has a fixed stock, (which doesn't include your shockwave as it is adjustable) and the overall length is 26" or greater, then technically it's a rifle and you can have the VFG.

If I'm off base someone please correct me.
Is the Shockwave adjustable? I know it’s not a quick adjust, but can it be tightened down in multiple positions? (I’ve never used one)

>26” makes it technically a firearm, not a rifle.
 
Is the Shockwave adjustable?

Yeah it can be tightened down in multiple positions. A pointed allen screw on the underside of the blade mates against pre-positioned dimples in the buffer tube. It's a tab A goes into slot B type of thing. Kind of a pita...the blade covers the dimples and it's hard to tell if you have the screw aligned with the dimples.

Thanks for the firearm/rifle clarification.
 
Has anyone here ever had anyone approach them to measure their stuff? Most of these rules sound like things a DA will tag onto a crime as additional charges, not really something that ATF agents are scouting matches and shooting ranges for.
 
A DI AR pistol won’t run with the stock/pistol grip folded, so does a short AR pistol with a folder still qualify an an AOW?

It’ll fire one round while folded. Won’t reciprocate but it’ll get one round off....at least the older Gen (3?) would
 
From my understanding the ATF just Clarified how to measure a Ar pistol due to letters to them asking. I have always thought a vertical grip on a pistol was a no no but to my surprise they come out with this. So it doesn't effect you if you don't have a vertical grip as my understanding of this but in the measuring process the brace is not counted because the atf doesn't recognize it as part of the pistol only an accessory which is probably a good thing from the stink it kicked up early on. So measuring your pistol that is less than 26" and adding a Vertical grip makes it an AOW , No VG and its just an AR pistol . to my surprise if your Ar pistol measures over 26" and you add a VG it just becomes a Firearm not an NFA item, No VG its just an AR pistol. Some one please correct me if I'm wrong but this is my understanding.
 
...to my surprise if your Ar pistol measures over 26" and you add a VG it just becomes a Firearm not an NFA item, No VG its just an AR pistol.
I believe the only nit-picky thing to point out here is the VG doesn’t make it a firearm.

The 26” length is the line between pistol and firearm. So one that’s at least 26” is a firearm whether it has a VG or not. Kinda like the Shockwave is a firearm, not a shotgun.
 
ok took some googlefoo but I think I found the letter of law so to speak . so what the new ATF letter is doing is just clarifying how to measure.
 

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Out of this whole post what i have learned is this.

Words have meaning, a meaning can be a legal description.

What's different and new is a individual learning curve.
 
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I+see+then+but+_a1133fa82d0aafcec22332605c1299a4.jpg
 
So if I had a pistol (under 26") that shot a 20ga shotgun shell, would it be considered a WMD? :D
I have one. But it’s registered as an AOW. ;)

In reality, it’s a Mossberg Shockwave. But it was bought without the birds head grip, so OAL is <26”. I bought it that way because I wanted a red $5 stamp.
 
it was basically a big argument on whether the various letters ATF has pulled out their ass define the brace as the rearmost point of the firearm (like a stock would).

All in all, it doesn't matter as you see in the case of the shockwave........ under 16" barrel, no STOCK (brace isn't a stock per BATFEces) and VFG is a "firearm".

Personally I see no need a VFG on anything that isn't fully auto, it's pointless tacticool crap that looks like crap on anything besides a Serbu Shorty (also an AOW from the factory).

Finger stops and maybe an AFG work better. But yeah I ain't sweating on whether my short-barreled stockless AR is a pistol or a firearm.

They let that cat out of the bag with the Shockwave IMO.
 
A hypothetical question on a 10.5" AR with blade. Is the measure from the buffer tube to the barrel end, flash device removed?
Yes...hypothetically.
 
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