Dayton, OH Mass shooting, nine dead

JBoyette said:
No its not a insult at all.

What is the number 1 issue with an illegal and what is the only advantage they have over a citizen?

Lack of paying income tax.

Thats it. Because the Sixteenth Amendment and FDR's new deal we created a class of people that before 1909/1932 never existed in this country.

To be in a comparison situation, a citizen is not going for minimum wage jobs, oh no. They are going for under the table paid jobs.
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No, the number one issue is that the illegals shouldn't be here in the first place to inflate the labor pool, create artificial competition and suppress wages.

Their presence creates the under the table jobs with sub legal wages because their immigration status makes them vulnerable to the employer. It is far beyond just one employee pays income tax and another does not.

I say this as the son of a legal immigrant who worked as a farm picker to support himself through college.

Edit to add: Your insult was saying that decent Americans have effed up because they are competing with illegals while simply trying to get an honest, entry level or laborer job. I really don't think you meant it that way, but that's the nut of it and how it comes across.
 
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CZfool68 said:
Wow, do you mean that if the labor pool increases wages go down? Who could have guessed! :D

And even more so when some are playing by different rules than others. But this is a perfectly normal unequal application of law in a Democrat, Socialist, Marxist, Commie world.
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Beat me to it!
 
Windini said:
No-one is required to own or use a firearm, nor is anyone required to vote. But the option to be able to do both is available to anyone willing to take & pass the course.
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If I were negotiating with the .Gov I would insist that all households have a gun. I mean it works for Sweden (?) If the liberals can throw that country's healthcare up as a role model for what the US should aspire to, then we should throw up the gun in every household.
 
cold1 said:
;)
You know how in school, work, sports, etc... all it takes is a few folks screwing up for everyone else, that's what we are seeing. Go ahead a make fun, and tell me how #shallnotbeinfringed will stop the politicians from passing more laws.

We gun owners can keep that train of thought or we can start coming up with a solution or the politicians will.
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I think, what you will find, is that they will pass more laws regardless of whatever “self policing” we do. The opposing side does not want “common sense gun laws”...they want total disarmament. Anything that is less than that will be met with tears and screams of being complicit in the deaths of children.

So no, I’m not jaded enough to think a fancy hashtag and internet bravado is going to preserve anything. But I do know that is gun owners have been offering solid advice for decades and they don’t care:

1. Firearms education early, even supported by the schools.

2. Stop letting violent offenders out of jail.

3. Crimes committed with firearms are immediate max sentences with zero possibility of parole.

4. Re-open mental health institutions.

5. De-stigmatize mental health problems.

6. Stop penalizing people for prescribing to medicine that helps them cope: i.e. marijuana gun bans, making people feel wary of discussing their mental health with doctors for fear of red flag attacks.

7. Encourage public armament. Harden targets.

8. Stop protecting businesses, banks, government buildings, and sports arenas with men with guns while trying to protect schools and shopping malls with signs and feelings.

9. Utilize social media to induce a complete and total blackout of mass shooters. No photos, no comments, no names, no issuing their manifesto. You commit an act like this then you vanish. You cease to exist. Your entire history is wiped out from public record. Your birth certificate deleted. Social media accounts scrubbed. All school records shut down. You become a ghost. No one knows who you are, why you did it, or anything about you. No fame. None. You want to go out in a blaze of glory? Then learn to play Guns and Roses tunes.

These, and more, have been supported for years as steps that would actually influence or change public construct to better prevent or defend against these acts. But they are less than “End teh Gunshowz loophole!!! No weeponz of war! It eveeel black rifle!!’ bans it!!!” So they get no traction.


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cold1 said:
A free permitting system that shows that an individual has the basic training in firearms safety and use. We have all been around people that had no business owning a firearm. We don't let a person drive a car on the roads without sufficient training.
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And who is to decide what is “sufficient”? I do get where you are coming from ... but what if they required you to qualify using the easy peasy NC CHP course of fire or say the FBI course of fire where we’re talking maybe 60 rounds with 1/3 of the rounds being from 15 to 25 yards? What could start out as a well meaning thing could be twisted to cut a lot of people out of their ability to own a firearm because they can’t meet crazy standards if an anti-gun administration comes into control.
 
grungewehr39 said:
So, I'd still need a little piece of paper from the gov to own firearms??? I thought I had that already from a higher source.
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I agree that you do in theory. Now let's talk reality, do you not currently need a piece of paper to purchase a gun? During the AWB, could you buy a new Romanian AK? Can you buy a new full auto trigger group for an AR? How about a suppressor? Don't you need the gov permission now?

But let's not talk about people needing a permission slip to own a gun. #shallnotbeinfringed
 
cold1 said:
I'm not sure yet or if I will ever be sure. I do know that if we gun owners don't start trying to get together on the same page and trying to come up with some decent suggestions, we will have more oppressive laws passed.

The US we grew up in is long gone. our society has changed. Personally I would like to see all firearms be unregulated. The trade off would be that marksmanship trading be put in every high school. A free permitting system that shows that an individual has the basic training in firearms safety and use. We have all been around people that had no business owning a firearm. We don't let a person drive a car on the roads without sufficient training.

I want to see the focus move from the device and back to the person behind it.

Our 2nd has already been infringed upon several times and the SCOTUS has deemed it ok. So let's just keep yelling "shall not be infringed " and see how that goes.
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i-do-not-think-it-means-what-you-think-it-means.jpg
 
Goofyfoot2001 said:
Thise talking about mental health institution keep forgetting that red flag laws will stop those that need it most from seeking help.
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4,5,6 from B00gers game plan to prevent stupid. See above


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YeeHaa said:
So why does it take a "college professor" to understand this as it is common sense in that the more a person does something ( good or bad) the more "Normal" (?) it becomes.
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It was his way of getting the class to realize they were being fed a bunch of BS in that advertisers and media producers wanted you to simultaneously believe that their content has a dramatic impact or no impact and that which one it was depended on what they were selling at the time. You can’t have it both ways.
 
MacEntyre said:
That is what we are told. I'm just a bit skeptical
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I think it's mostly accurate, however who is feeding them the information and providing the positive motivation and coaching is another topic that will require me to get my Reynolds wrap tophat
 
cold1 said:
I'm not sure yet or if I will ever be sure. I do know that if we gun owners don't start trying to get together on the same page and trying to come up with some decent suggestions, we will have more oppressive laws passed.
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This statement seems to be based in the idea that there is a legislative solution. I don’t believe there is. I believe the problem is a lot more complicated and pervasive; tied to the very fabric of why we say this nation is going in the wrong direction, etc.

Starting with Sandyhook, the libtards started screaming “mass shooting ... give up your rights”. The response was no, not one damned inch. They were incensed. Too bad. We’re not the problem, infringing on is is not the solution, but doing so runs the risk of causing a lot bigger problems.
 
Ahhhh ... FOX is reporting with pics from the Dayton Police of the firearm used ...

https://www.foxnews.com/us/dayton-ohio-shooting-massacre-bar

9D4F7D27-922F-49C9-A861-CEA7B5FD2BC9.jpeg

What do you see besides the drum mag and I’m betting EOTech knockoff sight that kinda bothers you?

I see an AR pistol ... and before long I can see the anti-gunners screaming about it’s compactness and the “brace”. The suppressor usage back in the VA Beach shooting gave them one bone now an AR pistol being used here gives them another thing to possibly target. I will admit I’ve been holding my breath on the Mossberg Shockwave and Remington TAC type “firearms” that the antis and media would scream “sawed off” shotguns.

Why could some idiot who is going to pull something like this anyway go in with a golf bag of clubs. If they had over 10 clubs it would be a hi-cap “magazine” bag thing right?
 
Pink_Vapor said:
I totally agree with the psychoactive drugs being bad juju.
Ritalin, not so much. As far as this generation, I was put on it in 1973 because I was the kid bouncing off the walls, I’ve been off it for decades, Hate it, made me feel uneasy/slightly paranoid like everyone’s watching. It never made me feel violent or unstable.
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So, let me get this straight - it made you paranoid and you hated it, but it wasn't so bad? Let's posit for a moment that your reaction was average or even worse than average. What happened to the kids on the tail end of the bell curve that it drove bat shit crazy, or even just nudged them over the edge if they weren't that stable to start with? It only takes a few...
 
https://www.carolinafirearmsforum.c...-shooter-what-would-you-do.47566/#post-825654

Connor Betts, the Dayton, Ohio mass shooter, was a self-described “leftist,” who wrote that he would happily vote for Democrat Elizabeth Warren, praised Satan, was upset about the 2016 presidential election results, and added, “I want socialism, and i’ll not wait for the idiots to finally come round to understanding.”
 
JimP42 said:
So, let me get this straight - it made you paranoid and you hated it, but it wasn't so bad? Let's posit for a moment that your reaction was average or even worse than average. What happened to the kids on the tail end of the bell curve that it drove bat shit crazy, or even just nudged them over the edge if they weren't that stable to start with? It only takes a few...
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Paranoid is a strong term here, anxious is more like it. It appeared I was better because I was worried about what others felt/saw.
The psychoactive anti-depressants are tied to most of the mass shooters.
 
I stopped reading after the third page...

I grow weary of all the hypothesis, speculation, first pointing, etc. on what will eventually reach an inevitable conclusion.

While I appreciate all the valiant efforts of those that maybe able to alter or delay the outcome. But, I prefer to spend my energy on preparing and training for this conclusion.

When it comes, may I still have the strength and skills I need...

Just sayin'
 
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BurnedOutGeek said:
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I've been giving it some thought.

Instead of an AWB, take all the guns that would be on the list and make them NFA.

Revamp the NFA so that you pay $200 for a single lifetime stamp. With this stamp you can purchase any thing on the NFA list. It won't be $200 per item, it would be $200 once.

All importation bans would be lifted, no ffls required once you have your new NFA stamp.
 
cold1 said:
I've been giving it some thought.

Instead of an AWB, take all the guns that would be on the list and make them NFA.

Revamp the NFA so that you pay $200 for a single lifetime stamp. With this stamp you can purchase any thing on the NFA list. It won't be $200 per item, it would be $200 once.

All importation bans would be lifted, no ffls required once you have your new NFA stamp.
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So how much $$$$ to exercise my other rights. How much to use my 4th and 5th Amendment rights when needed?
Again, you are exchanging one set of gov permissions with another.
 
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grungewehr39 said:
So how much $$$$ to exercise my other rights. How much to use my 4th and 5th Amendment rights when needed?
Again, you are exchanging one set of gov permissions with another.
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Given the choice between the .gov banning certain weapons and paying to keep my full rights, I would pay.

You already have to do this with class 3 weapons, so what if they put ARs and AKs on the class 3 list instead of banning them altogether. You already have to pay so you can have permission to carry concealed.
 
cold1 said:
Given the choice between the .gov banning certain weapons and paying to keep my full rights, I would pay.

You already have to do this with class 3 weapons, so what if they put ARs and AKs on the class 3 list instead of banning them altogether. You already have to pay so you can have permission to carry concealed.
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At what point are you willing to say, "Enough is enough"? Do you have a line drawn in the sand or are you willing to keep paying for more and more of your Constitutional Rights?
 
cold1 said:
Given the choice between the .gov banning certain weapons and paying to keep my full rights, I would pay.

You already have to do this with class 3 weapons, so what if they put ARs and AKs on the class 3 list instead of banning them altogether. You already have to pay so you can have permission to carry concealed.
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You're going in the wrong direction. We need to take power of restrictions away from them, not sideways step to another one.
 
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I'm sure I don't have the wording exactly right, but I believe it was Ben Franklin who said, "Those willing to sacrifice liberty for a bit of safety, deserve neither."
 
cold1 said:
Given the choice between the .gov banning certain weapons and paying to keep my full rights, I would pay.

You already have to do this with class 3 weapons, so what if they put ARs and AKs on the class 3 list instead of banning them altogether. You already have to pay so you can have permission to carry concealed.
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If you have to pay for your rights then they're not "rights!"

Terry
 
At the risk of sounding crass, 9 people is a normal weekend in Chicago and has been for years! We lose more people there then we do in Afghanistan in a year!
 
I cant imagine what the families of the victims are going through right.


But I also cant imagine what that little precious defenseless unborn baby is going through right now either that is experiencing the affects of an abortion.


KILLING IS KILLING NO MATTER HOW ITS CARRIED OUT !!!
 
grungewehr39 said:
You're going in the wrong direction. We need to take power of restrictions away from them, not sideways step to another one.
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I don't disagree with you on reducing restrictions. The reality is that its not going to happen. There will be more restrictions put in place. If not under this administration, then the next. We already see that state's can make buying a gun more difficult than it already is and nothing is being done to really stop them. Sure there have been a few cases that have made it to SCOTUS and the 2nd was upheld, but more cases haven't even made it there and won't.

So that leaves us a few choices.
1: keep doing what we are doing and let the politicians add more restrictions

2: Keep saying "shall not be infringed " which will by default circle back to #1

3: Change the way things are done and create something new as part of bargaining for lesser restrictions in one area for more in another.

As for the criticism of paying for your rights, how many of you have paid and continued to pay for the privilege of carrying concealed, and are happy that you are allowed to do so? How about paying for the privilege to own a suppressor or any other NFA item? Would you be willing to pay a one time fee to be able to purchase any item you wanted with out any added restrictions, paperwork, or taxes? Even have it delivered to your door?
 
cold1 said:
I don't disagree with you on reducing restrictions. The reality is that its not going to happen. There will be more restrictions put in place. If not under this administration, then the next. We already see that state's can make buying a gun more difficult than it already is and nothing is being done to really stop them. Sure there have been a few cases that have made it to SCOTUS and the 2nd was upheld, but more cases haven't even made it there and won't.

So that leaves us a few choices.
1: keep doing what we are doing and let the politicians add more restrictions

2: Keep saying "shall not be infringed " which will by default circle back to #1

3: Change the way things are done and create something new as part of bargaining for lesser restrictions in one area for more in another.

As for the criticism of paying for your rights, how many of you have paid and continued to pay for the privilege of carrying concealed, and are happy that you are allowed to do so? How about paying for the privilege to own a suppressor or any other NFA item? Would you be willing to pay a one time fee to be able to purchase any item you wanted with out any added restrictions, paperwork, or taxes? Even have it delivered to your door?
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So what is your next step going to be when they say turn in your "assault" weapons or become an instant felon?
 
JBoyette said:
As to your illegal immigration post. Look if a American is in economic competition with a illegal immigrant, they not the illegal f&+ked up with one's career choices and professional development in this country. Period

John
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I don't think you can emphasize that with a "Period." It isn't nearly as simple as that.

The 18 year old kid working on a landscaping crew, construction job, or bussing tables didn't screw up when he was beat out by an illegal alien who is paid under the table and therefore is cheaper labor. Everyone starts somewhere and the menial jobs were where a lot of people started as they worked their way through college or trade school, or figured out what they really wanted to do. Illegal labor has had its most dramatic effect on the jobs that Americans in their teens/early twenties used to do.

Likewise, the guy that owns the landscaping or construction company who refuses to hire illegals getting underbid by the companies that do (or are owned by illegals!) isn't a screw-up on the part of the guy who is doing it right. He is taking the high road and illegal immigration makes that road a lot harder to navigate successfully. There are those that do it and they did not screw up with their career choices, but they also have a hard row to hoe and my hat is off to them. I know a couple guys in this category. They work hard to do it right, but they lose more jobs than they get because of it. The average American consumer usually doesn't care about whether labor is legal or not - he/she wants whomever is cheapest.

If you are talking about the career hotel housekeeper or busboy competing with an illegal, that is one thing, but there is a whole lot more to the equation than those types of jobs.
 
SPST said:
So what is your next step going to be when they say turn in your "assault" weapons or become an instant felon?
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Felon = loss of all Rights

I will turn them in. I have a wife and two kids, ARs is not the hill I'm going to die on.

Do you wear your seatbelts when you get in the car? Do you remember when we didn't have to?
 
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How is any of these ideas about a 200 dollar stamp or training classes 'policing ourselves'?
Sounds like more policing by the authorities and we're back to where we started.
 
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