147 gr 9x19 with VV 3N38, worth it?

Sleazy P. Martini

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Getting back into reloading and saw this load (147gr @ 1200 FPS). I've never used VV powder, but this seems fun. I'll be shooting out of a Glock 19 using HST projectiles. Any reason I shouldn't do this (besides price)?
 
@Michael458 has just loaded up some stout 147 Gr loads for @BatteryOaksBilly . They were just over 1200 FPS and pretty sporty in small carry guns like the G43. They are the ones I have in my G43 right now.
 
@Michael458 has just loaded up some stout 147 Gr loads for @BatteryOaksBilly . They were just over 1200 FPS and pretty sporty in small carry guns like the G43. They are the ones I have in my G43 right now.

That would be my dream load if I could get it in semi-jacketed flat soft point.

Alas, I stopped reloading several years ago and recently gave all my equipment away.

That may have been premature, but I needed to "start afresh" anyway.
 
Guys...... This is a wicked ass 9mm load, use at your own discretion, and RISK. I am quite sure its a bit OVER MAX. Not something you shoot on regular basis. Tone it down a bit for that. I shot it today in the SIG 210 for 1200 fps average of 5. It was fine, not bad at all. Shot it in my SIG 938, and 5 rounds was all I will ever shoot in it, I will never put those in that one again! It averaged 1076 in the little gun, and hurt my hands. I was glad the test was over. The Little SIG was rough on the brass as well. The head looked like a pair of vise grips had scrapped over it! While in the BHP and the SIG 210, brass looked fine.

Not an everyday shoot for fun load. It will wear your gun out that way. But putting a mag full through on occasion, or carry it, or put it away for the Zombie Apocalypse, it will be just dandy. Currently I am waiting on Wild Bill to give the the go ahead on the rest of it, I want him to shoot some in his Colt 1911 to make 100% sure its good to go...........

So far, it has fed/function 100% in everything I have put it through, BHP, SIG 210, SIG 938, and one 7.5 inch AR............ Not for the light hearted.........
 
Holy heck, @Michael458, what powder are you using?!

V 3N38...... its a great powder, extremely consistent, best and most consistent I have worked with in 9mm....... I may check it out for other things as well........ Also got a great load with the 90 Raptor from CEB at 1417 fps in the SIG 210, 1365 fps in the BHP and 1276 fps in the SIG 938. This is a wicked trauma inflicting bullet. It also does 1600 fps + in a 7.5 inch gun...... this is with V 3N37 and I like it as well, extremely consistent. Like 5 rds with 10-15 fps ES....... Very nice...... But very hot loads too. Not as ugly as the 147s, but plenty enough.........

Use wisely, do as I say, and NOT AS I DO....... LOL.........
 
So far, it has fed/function 100% in everything I have put it through, BHP, SIG 210, SIG 938, and one 7.5 inch AR............ Not for the light hearted.........

I ran a magazine through a SCCY and a magazine through my Glock 43. Both ran them great. They were not really violent but you could certainly tell that they weren't Winchester White Box 115 gr target loads.
 
I ran a magazine through a SCCY and a magazine through my Glock 43. Both ran them great. They were not really violent but you could certainly tell that they weren't Winchester White Box 115 gr target loads.

Excellent.......They are fine in the BHP and the SIG 210...... Violent as hell in the little 938......>LOL.............

When I do more Terminal Test work I want to put them in the box and see just what they will do..........I have a better bullet I think than what Bill bought, which was the Speers. The RMR bullet I had has a larger meplat on it. I am going to load Bill and you a 100 of those and send as well. Since I burned 100 of the Speers already in the test work......LOL.........
 
This load sounds like it was developed for open guns utilizing comps and other than manufacturers supplied spring weights.
 
This load sounds like it was developed for open guns utilizing comps and other than manufacturers supplied spring weights.
No Sir, not even close. These will be carried by me and mine for PENETRATION. When Mike sends those with the Wider meplat they will be in all my carry guns in 9mm.
 
No Sir, not even close. These will be carried by me and mine for PENETRATION. When Mike sends those with the Wider meplat they will be in all my carry guns in 9mm.

Thats a 176 pf. in a small bore. Taint no way I would run that on the regular in non comped guns
 
Nato spec ceiling is 42,000 psi. What are y'alls pressures with loads you are using?

3n38 in the 7gr range and 124gr jacketed bullets is what an awefull lot of USPSA open guns are using nowadays in the 170ish pf with purpose built firearms
 
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Nato spec ceiling is 42,000 psi. What are y'alls pressures with loads you are using?

3n38 in the 7gr range and 124gr jacketed bullets is what an awefull lot of USPSA open guns are using nowadays in the 170ish pf with purpose built firearms
Many years ago Jeff Cooper wrote that he had a 160 grain lsw that would do 1,000 fps in a 2 inch model 60. A man, concerned also with pressures, wrote in and told Jeff that load might Eventually hurt his firearm. Jeff replied as Mike and I do, This info was never even a consideration in our choice. This ammo is to carry and use in dire emergencies.
Also, as Mike said ...only for information purposes. We Do Not Care about the pressure only the result We are after.

ETA....For all concerned about Pressures...This ammo Can Not hurt your gun if you do not put it in it.
 
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Many years ago Jeff Cooper wrote that he had a 160 grain lsw that would do 1,000 fps in a 2 inch model 60. A man, concerned also with pressures, wrote in and told Jeff that load might Eventually hurt his firearm. Jeff replied as Mike and I do, This info was never even a consideration in our choice. This ammo is to carry and use in dire emergencies.
Also, as Mike said ...only for information purposes. We Do Not Care about the pressure only the result We are after.

ETA....For all concerned about Pressures...This ammo Can Not hurt your gun if you do not put it in it.

Im picking up what your puttin down. But when a barrel/chamber comes apart from extreme over pressure, the firearm is now usless regardless of the dire situation. Doesnt seem like a great gain worth the extreme risk considering the many proven options.

But I dig and respect the mad scientist approach to load development.
 
Mike..... Its a heavy, ugly load, no doubt. But it would take many of them fired to damage a gun. It is not "Extreme Over Pressure"......... Just a bit OVER....... Brass is good, primers good, and I have loaded some of the brass and retired a couple of times with no issues.

Right, I mentioned above, you would not want to run a steady diet of it, it would begin to wear things down. But a magazine or so once and again, no issues.

This is nothing compared to some of the rifle stuff we have done. We once put 125 rounds of 80000 PSI loads through a bolt gun where the manufacturer was looking for Proof Loads to fire in their rifles. They of course donated the rifle and all the bullets and brass. It was a 4 day affair and long hard days to get the right load and be consistent. They wanted 250 of these to start with. They were only going to fire one in each of the new rifles. Fun project.

I am not running pressures on the 9mm loads. Case measurements and case study only. They are wicked, but not "Extreme"..........

I think its BS @Michael458 is loading 9mm. There was a different tone when i said i loaded pistol

Butter! Only very special projects can possibly peak any interest of mine in the "Lowly Regarded Pistol Loads"......... Like ole Rodney Dangerfield said, So says the Hand Gun Loads "I can't get no respect"...... LOL No worries, once this is done, I will be back to the "Real Stuff"...... Not this mickey mouse hand gun stuff......... LOL

Of course I could show you boys some 45 ACP studies, along with 45 Colt and 454 Casul work too.......... Also did a project here for a friend of mine, Max Prossac, he has written two books now on Handgun Hunting Revolvers. Our work is in there, he requested some terminal studies with comparisons to 45 vs 44 and cast and new CNC machined bullets for hunting. Its in the second book, I forget the name.

We have done some hand gun stuff............

Going to roost now, you boys take care, catch you later...........
 
This load sounds like it was developed for open guns utilizing comps and other than manufacturers supplied spring weights.
But VV lists 7.0 gr as a valid load for 147 gr 9x19 without any asterisks or disclaimers. I'd be more cautious if I found this load on bubbareloadin.com or something. I figured part of the reason VV is so pricey is because you can achieve nice velocities without blowing your gun up. The next best 147 gr load I've seen is Longshot and that's only 1000 FPS.

Edit: To clarify, I'm more interested in making SHTF ammo (hence the HSTs). I have plenty of Longshot and Titegroup for normal loads.
 
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zuerjoha I don't think its that much OVER, if it is over at all. Cases look fine in most guns. All indicators are in the BLACK. Its hot, top end without doubt, but not so much it would blow anything with one round fired. I would have already done damage, I fired a good many from the BHP that I used to test with.

Hopefully will be finishing these in a few days. I really like that Starline Nickel cases Bill sent over. Like them so good, I am putting the remainder of my 90 Raptors in them, I ordered a 1000 from Graf, have those on hand too. Special loads only.........Then back to the grind of loading for real firearms, like 500 caliber rifles........LOL...........Maybe even blend some new powders up. To date I have only blended two different powders in any blend, I was thinking recently about blending 3 powders together, and trying some different mixtures. Always looking for that "Magic" powder. One day I will tell you about a "Magic 5lb Keg of RL10X" that I did the first development work with in 500 MDM, now that was a Magic Keg of powder! But there was only one 5 lb keg of it! Have been looking for years to duplicate that again....... But have not been successful yet.......

The V 3N38 and V 3N37 is good powder. Extremely Consistent. I will be using more of that with special loads in the future.......
 
I also just discovered the 165 gr @ 1050 fps load with N105. What kind of fairy dust is VV putting in its powder?! :eek:
 
I have used some V N530 in 500 MDM and 500 B&M and it is very good. All V I have used is very consistent, and I like that...... These loads in 9mm are the most consistent I have ever seen in hand gun loads. Normally they are hit and miss, with high ES........ But not these with the V Powders..........
 
I’ve posted this here before but 3n38 makes major (172) with a STARTING book load under a 147 xtp according to viht.


View attachment 146328


How they do it i have no idea but it’s a published 9 major load on the manufacture’s site and a starting load to boot! Unicorn farts man!

Source: https://www.vihtavuori.com/reloading-data/handgun-reloading/?cartridge=89

Start and max are very close in weight with only a 30ish fps difference. Damn sure aint any room for error.

Whats their test barrel length and chamber? Curiosity reasons
 
Maybe all that will fit in the case at that depth?

4” according to that same chart:

View attachment 146335

They are loading long so to speak. Wonder what the feed and cycle will be like in a glock 19 vs 1911 vs BHP vs S&W shield. Will they even fit alot of the different magazines?

I had a 147 gr XTP load with Claydot that would do 1042 average with a 1.135 length. Hot round, would only work in my 1911 and jammed up two other plastic fantastic, so I gave up with it.
 
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They are loading long so to speak. Wonder what the feed and cycle will be like in a glock 19 vs 1911 vs BHP vs S&W shield. Will they even fit alot of the different magazines?

I had a 147 gr XTP load with Claydot that would do 1042 average with a 1.135 length. Hot round, would only work in my 1911 and jammed up two other plastic fantastic, so I gave up with it.
I’d be curious to know that as well. I don’t disagree with you as far as application in a purpose built race gun or for the limited use purposes @Michael458 & @BatteryOaksBilly are testing for. Seems like a hot round for sure. Would be interesting to test your Claydot load and the viht wonder dust side by side.
 
So far everything we have tried is GOGO!! Sig P210...Colt Govt....SCCY...BHP...Many Glocks. Not a single issue.

And that little SIG 938. You know what, my dumbass completely forgot about having a foot tub full of S&W Shields laying around. You know I could not resist that $249 price PSA had...... I must try them in those too....
 
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