What did you do in the reloading room today?
- Thread starter Mike Overlay
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Got back from the range last night. The test loads I had worked up were still not quite hot enough to reliably lock the slide on my FNX. So, I worked up some more, up to 5.5gn of Titegroup. I don't like going near max charge with TG, so I also worked up some loads using BE-86 to try next time.
After that, I cleaned the guns, sorted and decapped brass.
After that, I cleaned the guns, sorted and decapped brass.
backwoodsshooter
there’s always a method to the madness
Loaded up 25 hunting rounds for the up coming season
I'm working up a load for hunting too. I have a box of 140 grain Speer Hot-Core SP in 6.5. Thought I would give them a try. Heading to the range in a few minutes to shoot the first batch.
I trekked up to Frontline Defense yesterday to test the new loads. Apparently the FNX likes at least 800 fps with 200 gn bullets. Anything less than that and I had reliability and accuracy issues. Just going from 6.5 to 6.7gn charge cut the group size in half.
I have been messing with stuff all week long it seems. I was running very low on B&M brass of all sorts, for the standard B&Ms they use a 2.240 inch RUM case. Take 300 RUM, cut it and trim it to 2.240 to make basic B&M brass. Then just run it through the size die, trim back again since it grows a bit during sizing. Basic brass you can then use for 50, 458, 416 and 9.3 B&M. Remington RUM brass has not been available in 5 years or so, Hornady, Norma and Nosler all make RUM now, and its a good bit more expensive. Found Norma RUM recently on sale, I think it was $1.60 each or so. I bought 300 pieces. I got all that cut and trimmed and ready to load this week.
For the B&M Super Shorts they use WSM brass, cut and trim to 1.640 inches. For 50, 475, and 458 B&M Super Shorts. And again, until just the last couple of weeks, Winchester stopped making WSM and have not had a run of that in several years. A few years ago I bought a large batch of Federal Nickel WSM brass, that had been part of a recall and been dismantled by RMR or one of those suppliers. I think it was RMR, but could be wrong about that. I had all that cut and trimmed to 1.640 and ready to load. I had not needed any so it sit for a few years until recently I found out it could not be sized down enough to work with 50 Super Short, but forming it to 458 caliber it would hold the bullets without issue. So this week I started forming 458 and 475 Super Short out of it. Only to learn that it was oversized, and some would not chamber!
Now I didn't find this out, and its my fault for not checking it sooner, I had already formed, trimmed back, and cleaned 450 pieces of this crap! Now at 30% of it would not chamber. Full length sized, and every trick in the book, no go. I was checking every piece. Then it dawned on me, I better try this stuff out to see if it holds pressure? Sure enough, it would not, it would get sticky, and snappy at mere 58000 PSI, WSM is designed to work at 65000 PSI. Winchester brass of course will hold 65000 PSI without issue. And the light bulb came on!!!!!!! DING DING DING........ This was dismantled ammo brass, from recalled 270 WSM Federal Ammo, and something was wrong with it! DUHHHHHH............ So I packed the entire mess up, must be 750 pieces of this, and put it away on the range. The only reason I didn't trash can it is that maybe one day in the future I can use it for really light loads, in the 25000-30000 PSI range...... Other than that, it is useless...............That was at least 2 days wasted time.
Good news on this front is that Winchester has made a run of WSM brass. Late last week I ordered 1000 pieces of Winchester 300 WSM, and have it here now from Midway. Yesterday, with the Federal brass mess, I thought maybe I should lay some more WSM in if I can find it. Midway was out of the 1000 per and had 50 round bags. I searched the main ones, MidSouth was out, but Graf & Son's had the Winchester 300 WSM, so I ordered another 1000 pieces. This should do me for life I think now.
Yesterday I started cutting and trimming the Winchester, and yes, I tried it at 60000 PSI loads and it was just dandy, as always...............
I also did a lot of brass washing and prepping with 300 BLK, 7.62X40 and 308................. In fact, I have a bunch that I was drying yesterday, I best go bag and collect them...........
It never stops here it seems.......... Always something going on.........
For the B&M Super Shorts they use WSM brass, cut and trim to 1.640 inches. For 50, 475, and 458 B&M Super Shorts. And again, until just the last couple of weeks, Winchester stopped making WSM and have not had a run of that in several years. A few years ago I bought a large batch of Federal Nickel WSM brass, that had been part of a recall and been dismantled by RMR or one of those suppliers. I think it was RMR, but could be wrong about that. I had all that cut and trimmed to 1.640 and ready to load. I had not needed any so it sit for a few years until recently I found out it could not be sized down enough to work with 50 Super Short, but forming it to 458 caliber it would hold the bullets without issue. So this week I started forming 458 and 475 Super Short out of it. Only to learn that it was oversized, and some would not chamber!
Now I didn't find this out, and its my fault for not checking it sooner, I had already formed, trimmed back, and cleaned 450 pieces of this crap! Now at 30% of it would not chamber. Full length sized, and every trick in the book, no go. I was checking every piece. Then it dawned on me, I better try this stuff out to see if it holds pressure? Sure enough, it would not, it would get sticky, and snappy at mere 58000 PSI, WSM is designed to work at 65000 PSI. Winchester brass of course will hold 65000 PSI without issue. And the light bulb came on!!!!!!! DING DING DING........ This was dismantled ammo brass, from recalled 270 WSM Federal Ammo, and something was wrong with it! DUHHHHHH............ So I packed the entire mess up, must be 750 pieces of this, and put it away on the range. The only reason I didn't trash can it is that maybe one day in the future I can use it for really light loads, in the 25000-30000 PSI range...... Other than that, it is useless...............That was at least 2 days wasted time.
Good news on this front is that Winchester has made a run of WSM brass. Late last week I ordered 1000 pieces of Winchester 300 WSM, and have it here now from Midway. Yesterday, with the Federal brass mess, I thought maybe I should lay some more WSM in if I can find it. Midway was out of the 1000 per and had 50 round bags. I searched the main ones, MidSouth was out, but Graf & Son's had the Winchester 300 WSM, so I ordered another 1000 pieces. This should do me for life I think now.
Yesterday I started cutting and trimming the Winchester, and yes, I tried it at 60000 PSI loads and it was just dandy, as always...............
I also did a lot of brass washing and prepping with 300 BLK, 7.62X40 and 308................. In fact, I have a bunch that I was drying yesterday, I best go bag and collect them...........
It never stops here it seems.......... Always something going on.........
nature boy
Wooooooooo, from Canada!
Loading up 100 rounds of 6.5 creedmore today
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250rnds of 223 out of range brass. I hand inspect, separately deprime, gauge sort. Ream crimp out if needed. Put 50 in loading block. Spray Hornady case lube and then start feeding my 650. Great blast ing/plinking ammo. Reloader #7 and 55 grain pills.
@Michael458 exceeded our goal of 1,200 FPS with the 147 FMJFP 9mm. I knew he would...or blow something up. Since he is not yet satisfied I guess there is still time for the kaboom! He loves to mix powders to get the "recipe" he wants. He mentioned Bulls Eye and Blue Dot. I don't know if the end result is Blue Eye or Bull Dot but he'll get it sorted out.
Before anybody goes nuts about mixing powder, remember he's got about $20,000 worth of pressure testing equipment.
I don't think we can get there but if I can have a 147 FMJFP at 1,250 FPS I'll be a happy old man.
Before anybody goes nuts about mixing powder, remember he's got about $20,000 worth of pressure testing equipment.
I don't think we can get there but if I can have a 147 FMJFP at 1,250 FPS I'll be a happy old man.
Browning Hi Power, I have not quite reached top end yet, I don't think. Little more test work in the morning. Currently at 1168 and 1178 fps with two different powders, Winchester WSF and Power Pistol.
SAAMI for 9mm is actually pretty high at 35001 PSI, and 38500 PSI for +P
I am not running the pressure units on 9mm, just using good ole fashion inspect and measure methods. Right now I think I am well under +P.
I think I can take it to 1200 without much issue in the morning.
I forgot that I had been working already with 147 FN bullet I got from RMR some time ago. I was working with it at SubSonic, 3.3 gr Bullseye. Today 6 gr BlueDot gave some outstanding performance at 1050, extremely low ES and very consistent.
I have not, do not intend to do any blending for 9mm........ Most of the time when I blend powders I am doing it with the big bore rifles. I have done a good bit of blending with really good success. When blending it is best to blend powders that are of the same or close type, ball with ball, stick with stick, and flake with flake. Otherwise they do not mix and stay together. Blending does some good things for you, you can speed up a burn rate a bit, or slow it down a bit, depending on your requirements. Say you were using RL 15 in a big bore rifle, but you could not get enough powder in the case to raise pressures, and velocity. You could speed that up a bit by adding a percentage of RL 7, maybe 10% or 25%? Depending. This would speed the blend up. And or go in the other direction to slow it down some......... It is really not that much of a mystery, and quite simple to figure out, but it is essential that you have some good equipment to help you keep an eye on things and how they progress........ Its great fun too........ But if you can get where you want to be with common powders then blending is not needed.
In this case we will meet our goal without blending.
Not familiar with the 147 bullet from RMR, but I've had great luck with their 115 FMJ RN in my carbine.
Picking the right bullet can help, one that has an ogive that allows seating longer to give more case volume.
It is a good looking bullet, large flat meplat, great for driving straight and deep. I had totally forgotten about this project I had, it has been several months or longer since I messed with those.
Absolutely correct. To go further than that you can increase case volume with a hollow base bullet too.... LOL.... I am not talking about a beveled base you might commonly see, I am talking about a seriously hollowed
out base. We were doing some testing with those years ago, not only do they increase internal volume, but they also decrease weight of the bullet of course, and move balance and center of gravity forward. We tested
for depth of penetration comparisons with the same bullet with no hollow base, and the depth of penetration was the same, velocity being the same or close. Blowing SD out of the water once again, and proving that Nose profile and meplat are far more important in these matters. It was a brief test, but left a lot of questions that I had intended to find the answers to, however I have not revisited that. But it still intrigues me.
Ok good, this morning we have 1209 fps with WSF, and consistent. 1200 with Power Pistol, and I don't like the consistency, large ES..... So now, we load up 50+, whatever is left out of the first box, let Billy test and shoot
those in his gun, before loading up the remaining 400 bullets. Test and Verify......... I will also be running some of this in other various 9mm guns, again, test and verify........
those in his gun, before loading up the remaining 400 bullets. Test and Verify......... I will also be running some of this in other various 9mm guns, again, test and verify........
No. After doing some close measurements the 1209 fps load is over max pressures. Case expansion is too much in my opinion. We are backing up to yesterdays load at 1168 fps... In a BHP mind you.
I tested the same load in a 7.5 inch PSA Gun in 9mm at 1304 fps. BHP 1168 fps.
This load is absolute max in 9mm...... even more than likely a little over......
You are probably way more familiar with this than I, but in case you aren’t aware of “9mm major” loadings for USPSA type action shooting, try searching on that. Power factor in action shooting is (bullet weight in grains)*FPS/1000. Minor power factor has a scoring penalty and people are now pushing 9mm well beyond +P (in guns designed to handle it like STI 2011s) to use free brass for major scoring (instead 38SC or 38 super, without losing mag capacity with .40). Some of the loads are also tailored to produce lots of gas to make the comps more effective. Minor power factor is 125, Major is 165. At major matches, your ammo is tested in your gun to check the PF.
Anyway, this is different enough from big game rifles that I thought you _might_ not be aware of it, and there is lots of info on very stout 9mm loads.
The biggest problem with them is that the brass is only good for a couple leadings so now picking up brass at matches can have overstressed 9mm brass in the mix. And of course if you screw up a little your gun can go boom.
brianenos.com is a good place to start - several good threads there.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Hi Jim
Yeah, a little memory from USPSA days, but have forgotten most of major/minor, thanks. Billy wanted to match 1175 fps with a 147, so that is what it is about. Trying to do that with some powders on hand. I think we have that with the WSF load above, and his gun is 5 inch, so that should push it over what he wanted. Its a stiff load no doubt, and I would not recommend a steady diet of it. Special ammo for special days. Most of it put away for hard times....
I have him 50 rounds loaded, he must try it in his gun to make sure all is 100%. You are correct about the brass as well. I told him not to worry about the brass, even if you pick it up, throw it in the trash.
I like my sub sonic load with the 147s at 1000 fps....... Shoot great in everything so far, and a hole is a hole and that is about all you gonna get with a 9mm 147 FMJ FN anyway........... Now I am running some 90 Raptors at 1350 fps in that same BHP, but that is a different animal all together. The 90 Raptor load is what I carry in the 9s I run, in my little SIG 938 it runs 1233 fps and in a 7.5 inch PSA it runs 1497 and a 8.5 inch gun 1600 fps.
Its wicked...........
Yeah, a little memory from USPSA days, but have forgotten most of major/minor, thanks. Billy wanted to match 1175 fps with a 147, so that is what it is about. Trying to do that with some powders on hand. I think we have that with the WSF load above, and his gun is 5 inch, so that should push it over what he wanted. Its a stiff load no doubt, and I would not recommend a steady diet of it. Special ammo for special days. Most of it put away for hard times....
I have him 50 rounds loaded, he must try it in his gun to make sure all is 100%. You are correct about the brass as well. I told him not to worry about the brass, even if you pick it up, throw it in the trash.
I like my sub sonic load with the 147s at 1000 fps....... Shoot great in everything so far, and a hole is a hole and that is about all you gonna get with a 9mm 147 FMJ FN anyway........... Now I am running some 90 Raptors at 1350 fps in that same BHP, but that is a different animal all together. The 90 Raptor load is what I carry in the 9s I run, in my little SIG 938 it runs 1233 fps and in a 7.5 inch PSA it runs 1497 and a 8.5 inch gun 1600 fps.
Its wicked...........
So if I am calculating correctly, you would only need 1123 fps with a 147gn bullet to get major power factor.
I remember someone saying there was a load, using Vihtavuori 3N38 powder and 147gn bullet, that would not exceed SAAMI pressure.
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Not sure about the pressures, but the V 3N38 does show good numbers. I don't have any, but if I could not have met those goals, I would have been looking for some. Still might.
I just ordered some V 3N38 and a bit of 3N37 to try next week. I will report on how it does. The 3N37 shows extreme with 90-100 gr bullets, and I might be able to improve my 90 Raptor load at the same time......
Worth a look..............
In the meantime giving Bill 50 rounds of the WSF loads today to try over the weekend.........
Clicker
Well-Known Member
I love 3N37, never bought any 3N38. The stuff meters nicely. Here's a cast bullet load:
Gun: Coharie MP5 clone (8.9" barrel)
Load: Ballisticast 125 LRN with 6.0 VV 3N37 powder & SP primer
FPS: 1298, 1293, 1290, 1297, 1300
I load 147's with fast powders like N320 for suppressed shooting, I've never tried 3N37 with heavy bullets.
Clicker....... I got the 3N37 on the way for the lighter 90 gr Raptor load I think I can improve on. Running it with Bullseye now at 1325 in a BHP, Raptors like velocity, and I have listings with 3N37 reaching 1450 fps in 4 inch guns. So, I thought while ordering the 3N38 for heavier 147 gr bullets, I would give 3N37 a try as well. They arrive on Tuesday from Midway.
I am making some other changes in my 9mm process as well. Long overdue and overlooked, I don't have 9mm at the top of the list when it comes to getting any attention. I hate loading the stuff, and only load any 9mm for very special situations like the 90 Raptor, or this load Billy wants to put back. Been using a set of 9mm Dillon dies forever, and I am not sure I like those. Changing to RCBS and Redding Seating dies.
I end up doing a lot of case prep here. I prepped 400 300 BLK and 100 pieces of 7.62X40 yesterday to get those to RTL (Ready to Load) status. Today we are going to get a few more baseline measurements on 9mm loads while we wait on the 3N38 to arrive.
Yes, I was loading some sub sonic with Bullseye, bought a bunch of 147 FN from RMR some time ago, I had forgot about them until Billy started this project. Using 3.4/Bullseye around a 1000 fps in 7.5 and 8.5 inch guns. Its ok, but in testing the other day I tried some BlueDot, 6.5/BlueDot gave a dead steady extremely low ES at 1050 fps. This was in a Browning Hi Power, so I would have to drop the charge a bit for the longer barrel guns, for subsonic. BlueDot does well in 9mm especially longer barrels. While I am playing 9mm I may look for some other choices in subsonic.
Received another 1000 pieces of Winchester 300WSM Thursday as well (we cut/trim this stuff for the B&M Super Shorts)..... Winchester WSM has not been available in 4-5 years or more. I put in 2000 pieces last week.
Remington has not produced RUM brass in 5+ years now, Hornady, Nosler and Norma took over most of the RUM line, EXCEPT 375 RUM. No one has picked that up yet. The 375 RUM is where we get the 500 MDM from, take 375RUM up to .500 caliber. You can't do it with 300RUM, just too far, and every method I explored split the necks. I did manage to take 338RUM up to 500 caliber, however 338RUM is a bit shorter than full length RUM. Shopping at Midway last week, I saw 375RUM by Bertram. I picked up 20 pieces to test. Bertram brass does not have a good reputation for the most part. However, who knows, it might work, and be a source to keep the 500 MDMs running. Although I probably have enough Remington 375RUM laid away to keep all of them running for eternity currently. LOL.......I will form up the Bertram this morning, and may even give it a go.....
I am making some other changes in my 9mm process as well. Long overdue and overlooked, I don't have 9mm at the top of the list when it comes to getting any attention. I hate loading the stuff, and only load any 9mm for very special situations like the 90 Raptor, or this load Billy wants to put back. Been using a set of 9mm Dillon dies forever, and I am not sure I like those. Changing to RCBS and Redding Seating dies.
I end up doing a lot of case prep here. I prepped 400 300 BLK and 100 pieces of 7.62X40 yesterday to get those to RTL (Ready to Load) status. Today we are going to get a few more baseline measurements on 9mm loads while we wait on the 3N38 to arrive.
Yes, I was loading some sub sonic with Bullseye, bought a bunch of 147 FN from RMR some time ago, I had forgot about them until Billy started this project. Using 3.4/Bullseye around a 1000 fps in 7.5 and 8.5 inch guns. Its ok, but in testing the other day I tried some BlueDot, 6.5/BlueDot gave a dead steady extremely low ES at 1050 fps. This was in a Browning Hi Power, so I would have to drop the charge a bit for the longer barrel guns, for subsonic. BlueDot does well in 9mm especially longer barrels. While I am playing 9mm I may look for some other choices in subsonic.
Received another 1000 pieces of Winchester 300WSM Thursday as well (we cut/trim this stuff for the B&M Super Shorts)..... Winchester WSM has not been available in 4-5 years or more. I put in 2000 pieces last week.
Remington has not produced RUM brass in 5+ years now, Hornady, Nosler and Norma took over most of the RUM line, EXCEPT 375 RUM. No one has picked that up yet. The 375 RUM is where we get the 500 MDM from, take 375RUM up to .500 caliber. You can't do it with 300RUM, just too far, and every method I explored split the necks. I did manage to take 338RUM up to 500 caliber, however 338RUM is a bit shorter than full length RUM. Shopping at Midway last week, I saw 375RUM by Bertram. I picked up 20 pieces to test. Bertram brass does not have a good reputation for the most part. However, who knows, it might work, and be a source to keep the 500 MDMs running. Although I probably have enough Remington 375RUM laid away to keep all of them running for eternity currently. LOL.......I will form up the Bertram this morning, and may even give it a go.....
FatboyFlash
Senior Member
Loaded 500 rounds of 9 militantmeter and then I tore down the 1050 for a complete clean and lube. I then loaded another 500 just to check function. All is well.
I was supposed to be on the boat yesterday, but we nixed that as the wife had many things she wanted to do here on the compound. This left me to get back on the 9mm project for Bill. Along with other things too. I received the V 3N38 and V 3N37 Tuesday afternoon. Along with a new set of RCBS 9mm dies, and Redding Seating die. I had been having an issue with bulging bullets in 9mm seems forever. I don't have a lot of respect for loading 9mm, so I didn't put a lot of emphasis on correcting the issue. I despise loading 9mm. And will only do it for special projects, such as this one for Bill. But there is no way in hell I am going to turn out a project that has bulging bullets, looks like crap. Long story shortened, the culprit of this entire issue was a Dillon size die, it must be sizing down just a bit too much on the top end, smaller dimensions. With RCBS die the bulging bullets disappear. Now at least we can put out some better looking ammo.
We are pleased with the V 3N38. We were not able to exceed velocity we were running with the WSF, but we did equal. While case expansion was also equal to the WSF load, and velocity, at 1150 fps, the consistency of the V 3N38 was extremely good. Primers, cases and all other indicators looked much better with the V 3N38 as well. Since V 3N38 is a good bit slower, I would think the pressure curve is not as sharp, or quick, as the faster WSF and contributes to this. I have good confidence in the load, its up in pressure, no doubt about it, but it does look good and works great in the Browning Hi Power. I have a 100 loaded for Bill to try out. In the meantime today I will prep the other brass. Not loading this stuff progressive, taking a little more time with it than that.
I will be looking at the V 3N37 today as well with the 90 gr Raptor load.
Other things we are forming 500 MDM brass from 375 RUM. I plan to send over a 500 MDM to Billy's big ta do in October for the CFF folks to shoot. But, I will also get something out of it too, I am going to have Formed Loads to fire, and in the process end up with some proper Fire Formed brass. Formed loads are UGLY, and I despise them. The feed, function and shoot normal as premium fire formed loads, but just ugly. Back in the day of doing pressure tests and load data with 500 MDM, I always used Formed brass, and made a lot of good looking fire formed from that operation. Pressures ran on average 2000 PSI higher in FORMED brass than the same load in FIRED brass. This gives one a small 2000 PSI cushion in your data, and that is not too bad, as components change properties from one keg/can or box or what have you.
500 MDM is the most difficult one to make brass for out of all the stuff I have and do. And one of the reasons I keep fairly close tabs on who has one. I will be forming more brass today. My pal Sam made a set of Forming Dies for me some years ago. We take 375 RUM and run through the first die to take it to 416, next one to 458, and the 3rd one to 500 caliber. Then the case gets sized back to 500MDM specs, so it will hold the bullet. Rather ugly, but it does work.
There are other ways to form, using the Corn Meal method to blow them out. I used this years ago before anyone made 458 Lott brass. You prime your new parent case, in this instance 375RUM. A good dose of Bullseye is added, 25 grains for 500MDM. Then a piece of toilet paper over the powder to hold it in place. Then you funnel corn meal in on top of that until you get to the top. You have to put the corn meal in the funnel, and tap it through the hole with a round object smaller than your funnel hole. When you get Corn Meal to the top you need to pack it in a little tight, and then add another piece of toilet paper on top to hold everything in. Then take it outside and fire it in a SAFE direction. Magic brass, almost. It is quite a messy project at the bench, and very time consuming as well. While you get a decent piece of brass, sometimes that little ghost shoulder does not iron out as crisp as I would like. If making 458 Lott brass from either 375HH or 416Rem, those iron out straight and are ready to load. 500MDM is a little more complicated because of the Ghost Shoulder. Or the slight neck down at the top.
We are pleased with the V 3N38. We were not able to exceed velocity we were running with the WSF, but we did equal. While case expansion was also equal to the WSF load, and velocity, at 1150 fps, the consistency of the V 3N38 was extremely good. Primers, cases and all other indicators looked much better with the V 3N38 as well. Since V 3N38 is a good bit slower, I would think the pressure curve is not as sharp, or quick, as the faster WSF and contributes to this. I have good confidence in the load, its up in pressure, no doubt about it, but it does look good and works great in the Browning Hi Power. I have a 100 loaded for Bill to try out. In the meantime today I will prep the other brass. Not loading this stuff progressive, taking a little more time with it than that.
I will be looking at the V 3N37 today as well with the 90 gr Raptor load.
Other things we are forming 500 MDM brass from 375 RUM. I plan to send over a 500 MDM to Billy's big ta do in October for the CFF folks to shoot. But, I will also get something out of it too, I am going to have Formed Loads to fire, and in the process end up with some proper Fire Formed brass. Formed loads are UGLY, and I despise them. The feed, function and shoot normal as premium fire formed loads, but just ugly. Back in the day of doing pressure tests and load data with 500 MDM, I always used Formed brass, and made a lot of good looking fire formed from that operation. Pressures ran on average 2000 PSI higher in FORMED brass than the same load in FIRED brass. This gives one a small 2000 PSI cushion in your data, and that is not too bad, as components change properties from one keg/can or box or what have you.
500 MDM is the most difficult one to make brass for out of all the stuff I have and do. And one of the reasons I keep fairly close tabs on who has one. I will be forming more brass today. My pal Sam made a set of Forming Dies for me some years ago. We take 375 RUM and run through the first die to take it to 416, next one to 458, and the 3rd one to 500 caliber. Then the case gets sized back to 500MDM specs, so it will hold the bullet. Rather ugly, but it does work.
There are other ways to form, using the Corn Meal method to blow them out. I used this years ago before anyone made 458 Lott brass. You prime your new parent case, in this instance 375RUM. A good dose of Bullseye is added, 25 grains for 500MDM. Then a piece of toilet paper over the powder to hold it in place. Then you funnel corn meal in on top of that until you get to the top. You have to put the corn meal in the funnel, and tap it through the hole with a round object smaller than your funnel hole. When you get Corn Meal to the top you need to pack it in a little tight, and then add another piece of toilet paper on top to hold everything in. Then take it outside and fire it in a SAFE direction. Magic brass, almost. It is quite a messy project at the bench, and very time consuming as well. While you get a decent piece of brass, sometimes that little ghost shoulder does not iron out as crisp as I would like. If making 458 Lott brass from either 375HH or 416Rem, those iron out straight and are ready to load. 500MDM is a little more complicated because of the Ghost Shoulder. Or the slight neck down at the top.
Common problem with 9mm. This problem will happen with just about any sizing die that uses a small carbide ring at the bottom. The 9mm spec is for a tapered case, but the sizing ring sizes one diameter all the way down, and with a tapered wall thickness there will be a bulge at the base of the bullet, particularly bad with 147gn bullets.
If you really want to size cases so they look like factory ammo (true taper) then you must use a sizing die that forms a correct taper. There may be some commercial full length carbide dies available but they would be super expensive. Someone makes a steel sizing die for 9mm that has a true taper, but you must use lube to size the brass. I think it is Redding that makes it, but I can't seem to find it now.
Maybe the Redding RED80172 die set? There are also some older rcbs steel sizing dies but I don’t think they are still in production. (Edit rcbs die set 20504)
Redding is also making a dual carbide ring sizing die for some calibers, I haven’t kept up with that.
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Thanks Toprudder... good info. I am sure the RCBS die I just got in is common, and not one of the tapered dies you are talking about, but regardless, the bulge is not there, or not as noticeable anyway. I also got the Redding competition seating die to go with it. My thoughts, maybe it helps align the bullet straighter than I can, also helping reduce "side bulge" from bullet not being aligned properly. My fingers are not used to holding such tiny bullets.
Good info, if I continue and see bulging issues, I will dig deeper. My OCD will not tolerate the bulge..... Drives me insane......
Good info, if I continue and see bulging issues, I will dig deeper. My OCD will not tolerate the bulge..... Drives me insane......
backwoodsshooter
there’s always a method to the madness
Yeah crap, on sized brass I am still getting some ugly bullet bulge, not as bad, but I can still see it with some loads................ I hate loading 9mm............
I tried the V 3N37 with the 90 CEB Raptors. Ended up at 7.5/V 3N37 for 1365 fps average in the BHP. A little better than the Bullseye load, and way more consistent. Pressures look fine or I should say, Brass looks fine, really no issues, expansion within range. Call it a day on that load. Just buy some nice new Nickel Starline, no size down, prime and expand, and load............. No bulge with that. Carry stuff and put away stuff.......
Back to prepping some more brass...........
I tried the V 3N37 with the 90 CEB Raptors. Ended up at 7.5/V 3N37 for 1365 fps average in the BHP. A little better than the Bullseye load, and way more consistent. Pressures look fine or I should say, Brass looks fine, really no issues, expansion within range. Call it a day on that load. Just buy some nice new Nickel Starline, no size down, prime and expand, and load............. No bulge with that. Carry stuff and put away stuff.......
Back to prepping some more brass...........
The Redding dual-ring carbide dies are for the long straight-walled revolver calibers, I believe. I seriously looked at getting one of those but the price put me off. I then figured out how I could do the same thing (in two steps) using the Lee carbide crimp die, with the crimp insert removed. I full-length size using the FCD, then use a regular sizing die to resize just the area where the bullet seats. A lot more work than is necessary, I know, but I end up working the brass a lot less and hopefully that will make my 460 S&W brass last longer.
The last several days off and on I have been forming and shooting some 500 MDM. Couple of things has spurred this, one is that Billy has a big Ta Do at his place coming up in October. I figured this year I would donate some rifles and ammo for CFF folks to shoot and play with. I figured I would get some brass fire formed with you guys in attendance, but I hate the look of the “De-Formed” loads……… Bulge and ugly.
You will just have to live with ugly ammo and understand that this is “de-formed” ammo………. And you don't really get a nicely ironed out proper piece until its fired!
I did wash some and they look a little better than just factory dirty………
Another reason that spurred this was the fact that Bertram is now or made some 375 RUM brass. I bought 20 from Midway the other day to try out.
Remington has not made 375RUM in many many years. So far Hornady, Nosler, and Norma have not picked it up yet.
Bertram is not as malleable as the Remington, a little more brittle perhaps? But man if FORMS up really good. It forms up so good, I am not ashamed of it like the Remington 375RUM.
This has been washed and dried…. So it looks a bit better.
I first formed 5 pieces of the Bertram brass, I lost 2 pieces out, split. But I did fire 3 pieces with Obsolete 460 Raptors 92/IMR 8208 for a medium velocity of 2300 fps and small change. They formed and shot fine, no issues. Not sure how they would do at full high pressures…… But good for now….
In forming I also loose a few Remingtons as well. But not to worry, I can take all the ones that split and cut them down to 2.240 inches for standard B&Ms………
I am going to “De-Form” some more today, put them in the wash, then look for other Obsolete Bullets that can fire form some decent 500 MDM brass…………
Hopefully some of you CFF guys can shoot this stuff up for me in October, and have some fun while you are at it...........
You will just have to live with ugly ammo and understand that this is “de-formed” ammo………. And you don't really get a nicely ironed out proper piece until its fired!
I did wash some and they look a little better than just factory dirty………
Another reason that spurred this was the fact that Bertram is now or made some 375 RUM brass. I bought 20 from Midway the other day to try out.
Remington has not made 375RUM in many many years. So far Hornady, Nosler, and Norma have not picked it up yet.
Bertram is not as malleable as the Remington, a little more brittle perhaps? But man if FORMS up really good. It forms up so good, I am not ashamed of it like the Remington 375RUM.
This has been washed and dried…. So it looks a bit better.
I first formed 5 pieces of the Bertram brass, I lost 2 pieces out, split. But I did fire 3 pieces with Obsolete 460 Raptors 92/IMR 8208 for a medium velocity of 2300 fps and small change. They formed and shot fine, no issues. Not sure how they would do at full high pressures…… But good for now….
In forming I also loose a few Remingtons as well. But not to worry, I can take all the ones that split and cut them down to 2.240 inches for standard B&Ms………
I am going to “De-Form” some more today, put them in the wash, then look for other Obsolete Bullets that can fire form some decent 500 MDM brass…………
Hopefully some of you CFF guys can shoot this stuff up for me in October, and have some fun while you are at it...........
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FatboyFlash
Senior Member
Loaded another 1000 9mm for practice this month
500 rounds of 9mm Luger with 5.3 grains of Power Pistol behind 124 grain Delta Precision FMJ using CCI 500 primers in mixed cases. I have not been able to shoot very much lately and am looking forward to making up lost trigger time soon. The 45 Auto head goes on the Dillon when I run out of 9mm bullets.
FatboyFlash
Senior Member
Loaded another thousand rounds of 9mm and cleaned and organized my work area. It was disgusting!!!!