Home defense weapon (with children in the home)

jmccracken1214

jmccracken1214

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Just randomly thinking Last night about using my 9 mm pistol at home defense. With kids bedrooms down the hallway from us wondering if there’s a better choice of caliber? Not sure about a 410 buckshot penetration or maybe 45 would be better? Or are they also close it’s really Not relevant
 
.223 / 5.56

9mm will retain much of its mass after penetration of interior walls.

.223 / 5.56 will still penetrate interior walls, but at distances commonly encountered inside of a residence, the projectile’s velocity will most likely cause fragmentation when it hits wallboard / framing.
 
I've been trying to work this out for awhile now. We have a ranch house with a split bedroom plan, so when I come out of my room, I've got the living area, including main entry way, in front of me with the kids rooms behind the far wall. There is virtually no safe direction to shoot. I've been doing some training runs through the house when the family is out, and just trying to get myself very solidly trained to at least take a knee if I need to shoot into the middle of the house. Still not perfect because it's possible that a kid would have woken up and stood up, which would put them again into the line of fire. But at least as long as they're in bed the angles would work to keep them safe.

What I'm learning is that I need more training on this. And that maybe buying a split bedroom ranch house wasn't tactically sound. :) A bit late to change that, though.
 
wsfiredude said:
.223 / 5.56

9mm will retain much of its mass after penetration of interior walls.

.223 / 5.56 will still penetrate interior walls, but at distances commonly encountered inside of a residence, the projectile’s velocity will most likely cause fragmentation when it hits wallboard / framing.
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Especially with a Hornady 60gr TAP round. It’ll fragment in the walls and be less of an issue to friendlies but still absolutely wreck a bad guy. 3100fps Ballistic tips but like it was mentioned, they don’t retain the mass like 9mm or shotguns once they start penetrating walls
 
While thinking about lanes of fire also think of angles of trajectory. Firing from a kneeling position will cause the projectile to angle upward so if it does penetrate a wall down range it will take a higher path and possibly above heads in the room.
 
A few thoughts...

I would say "Use what you are most accurate with and most comfortable with." Because if you ever have to shoot, regardless of what firearm it is, you will have to be considering what is behind your target. Ask yourself this: is there a caliber you feel comfortable with setting your kids behind a few layers of dry wall and shooting at them with? So regardless of caliber, controlling those shots (in my opinion) takes front and center of importance. Granted, some loads may be more or less barrier blind, but don't sacrifice accuracy and competence for a slight if not negligible decrease in barrier mitigation.
 
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B00ger said:
A few thoughts...

I would say "Use what you are most accurate with and most comfortable with." Because if you ever have to shoot, regardless of what firearm it is, you will have to be considering what is behind your target. Ask yourself this: is there a caliber you feel comfortable with setting your kids behind a few layers of dry wall and shooting at them with? So regardless of caliber, controlling those shots (in my opinion) takes front and center of importance. Granted, some loads may be more or less barrier blind, but don't sacrifice accuracy and competence for a slight if not negligible decrease in barrier mitigation.
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This^^^^^^
 
When I set up home defense kits in training or consulting these are my parameters.
  • two shots
  • max distance in your home
  • within a 6" circle
  • You test both, barricaded support and unbarricaded positions
  • While activating a white light
  • 1 second par time
With these parameters in mind, the equipment and caliber must allow for 100% repeatability on demand in all conditions within your home.

Projectile selection must be 100% reliable in the firearm and designed for energy dumping in the target at and less then your max distance shot in your home.

If a firearm or ammunition can not allow this to be achieved, its the wrong system.

Some of you will hoot and holler about this scope, but in all situations, one can find themselves in historically, try to disprove it. Keep the context of what it's designed for, home invasion for legal self-defense.
 
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You have to consider that any self defense shot will also "get " anyone that is behind them in the line of fire.
So you must keep that in mind anytime you shoot a bad guy.
Some handgun rounds will also pass through a person, rifle rounds are not the only projectile that will do that.
Choose whatever it is you are the most comfortable shooting and the most accurate with then choose a round that will not over penetrate the person you intend to shoot. Do some research and see what works for your situation.
But even in an emergency situation realize where the shot will go if you miss or it passes through the person.
If your daughters bedroom door is directly behind the person you intend to shoot, you might want to resort to plan 'B" before shooting the guy.
When choosing a firearm make sure it is small enough for you to do a 180 in your homes hallway without losing point of aim.
It may seem silly to some, but practice what you would do at home, include the entire family for any situation that might happen in the event of a home invasion, or someone trying to break in while you are at home.
Teach you family to get as flat as they can on the floor until you instruct them otherwise, less chance they would be hit down there.
Never shoot anyone unless there is no other choice considering your and your family's safety.
We talk big in here sometime, but if you kill someone and there might have been another option your family may be coming to see you in prison.
This is what I would do, you figure what works best for you.
 
Of the two houses I own and have lived my "adult" life in, a major selling feature for both was that they aren't split floor-plan types. But if you live in one.....There is no single solution to this problem.

There is no magic bullet..... Anything that will penetrate flesh will penetrate 2 layers of drywall and injure/kill anyone in line on the other side.

As a general rule: high velocity, lightweight projectiles frag more and penetrate less than low velocity heavy weight projectiles. Hornady Vmax, TAP, and others have a role here.
Do your kids like books? Line the wall with bookshelves. That doesn't give you "weapons free" but it COULD mitigate misses a little.
Have you had any preparation discussions with your kids about what to do if they are awakened in the night by yelling, breaking glass, gunfire sounds, etc.? ( i.e get low and stay there, under a bed, etc.... )
Practice, practice, practice. Every round you send downrange is a threat to all who happen to be downrange.
 
As others have said, there is not a " one size fits all" solution for this issue, there are too many variables.

It is just my wife and I in the house, no small kids, however we are soon to have two more adults living with us in the next few weeks.

We live in a single level brick ranch with no neighbors on 3 sides. All my entry doors are opposite from the two bedrooms, it's 50' from my bedroom door to the most common entry point.

For noises inside the house, it's a Sig P226 with a TLR and 21rds of 124gr +P HSTs

The known threat or outside noise it's the Ruger PCC with a TLR and the same ammo.

Based on my assessment and risks vs benefits, I could probably just use a cannon with grapeshot from my bedroom door and not have any issues.

Point being is what works for me currently, probably won't work for you or may not work in the future for me.

If I was worried about over penetration, I would probably run a AR pistol with VMax, TAP or some other varmint round as opposed to a more solid round.
 
I can promise you All one thing, if it happens to you your life will change forever. Whether it's for the good or bad will be up to you.
Unlike Most here I don't have to wonder what it's like to be broken into by multiple aggressors. I was able to come out on top because I had a plan. It didn't work perfect but it was close enough for me to come out on top.
Remember....Panic is a Normal reaction to a problem with no fore thought solution.
 
We're empty nesters, the guest rooms and our's are at the end of the hall from entry points.
Bad guys will be looking at 2 Rotties, a 300BLK with 125g SST and a G23 loaded with Cor-Bon.
 
Pink_Vapor said:
We're empty nesters, the guest rooms and our's are at the end of the hall from entry points.
Bad guys will be looking at 2 Rotties, a 300BLK with 125g SST and a G23 loaded with Cor-Bon.
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I have my guys measure from their beds and bedroom door to farthest point of entry. Then they practice with their chosen weapon platform for retrievable access and engaging targets. I try to get all to do this Several times. Not to become proficient but to not have to be in On the Job Training mode if things go bad.
Then we do the easy chair to the other doors. I have them shoot from their chair and while getting up to take cover. All of this can be done in the Serious Fun Mode. My hope is to just let them see what it could be like. I let them change it as much as they want to. The more they are exposed to the safer they will be. Most are amazed at what they find out Will Not Work.
 
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bigfelipe said:
Teach your kids to hit the deck when they hear shooting...
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That, and have their own weapon within reach (provided they’re old/mature enough to have access to their own).
 
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Pink_Vapor said:
A 4' x 8' is only $1,600, how much is a sheet of 3/8" AR500?
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I bought a 24x48 piece of 1/2” AR500 ~3 years ago for $161.44. So <$650 for a 4’x8’ of 1/2”...3/8” should be less?
 
jmccracken1214 said:
Ain’t that the truth. I want to get something here soon a little more home defense’ish. I leave my p10c out on the night stand, I’m pretty handy with it, but want something a little harder hitting than 9mm
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Worry more about making your house a hard target than your choice of caliber. Landscaping, lighting and hardening locks and door frames are better investments. Think of layers of security. Make sure the kids rooms are not easy targets. You could strengthen bedroom or closet doors. Make then a safe place. Think window access. Check if you have plants providing cover for someone. Maybe plant things with thorns that will keep people away from certain places. Fall is the time to plant. Do all that and then worry about 9mm vs whatever. And as smarter guys than me stated earlier have a plan.
 
CZfool68 said:
Worry more about making your house a hard target than your choice of caliber. Landscaping, lighting and hardening locks and door frames are better investments. Think of layers of security. Make sure the kids rooms are not easy targets. You could strengthen bedroom or closet doors. Make then a safe place. Think window access. Check if you have plants providing cover for someone. Maybe plant things with thorns that will keep people away from certain places. Fall is the time to plant. Do all that and then worry about 9mm vs whatever. And as smarter guys than me stated earlier have a plan.
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What sort of products are good for this? For example, what type of door (material, brand, etc.) for a bedroom or closet? How important are the hinges and the door framing? Same for door handles/knobs and their latch mechanisms?
All the interior doors in our house are flimsy, at best. The exterior doors are "better" (except for the back glass door), but I have no idea what they put in when they built it.

I like the idea of the bullet resistant dry-wall in a closet or safe room. Definitely like the idea of thorn-type plants near 1st floor windows too!
 
CZfool68 said:
Worry more about making your house a hard target than your choice of caliber. Landscaping, lighting and hardening locks and door frames are better investments. Think of layers of security. Make sure the kids rooms are not easy targets. You could strengthen bedroom or closet doors. Make then a safe place. Think window access. Check if you have plants providing cover for someone. Maybe plant things with thorns that will keep people away from certain places. Fall is the time to plant. Do all that and then worry about 9mm vs whatever. And as smarter guys than me stated earlier have a plan.
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True.
Because your chance of anything ever happening is at best winning the lottery odds.
So yeah have a plan but I think fretting over calibers is a waste of time.
 
Honestlyni keep an m1 carbine with a bayonet on it at my house. About 12 feet from any entrance to my bedroom door, and keeping a fully loaded weapon accessible isdifficult given my children's presence.

I figure at the very least I got something to make an impression until i can load the rifle, if they come crashing in quickly.
 
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