Honda Pilot (Opinions Wanted)

RR

....glutton for punishment.....
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My Suburban is getting long in the tooth. It's time for a new SUV. I was looking at likely getting another Suburban or Yukon, but.....

We bought an Odyssey this past weekend for my wife. Not a new one. We don't do that. We bought an 08 with 120k miles and paid cash. So far we are very happy with it.

In shopping for the Odyssey I started looking at Pilots. I'm beginning to think it might meet my needs for a hunting rig/family vehicle.

My needs are:
8 seats (big family)
Cargo room for luggage and/or hunting gear.
4wd and ability to handle muddy farm roads.
Ability to tow 2500 lbs. (Combined weight of my trailer and UTV)

Now the 4wd and trailering is needed for a couple months out of the year, while the rest is important all the time.

Naturally another Suburban would work, but the Honda is looking pretty good.

I could get either with about 120-150k for my price range locally.

Am I nuts?
 
True 4wd will be suburban. Just a muddy farm road with a trailer and a Honda Pilot doesnt sound like a good idea. A la "hey yall watch this"

Interior room same

Gas mileage honda wins

Drive them both and see how the family fits.



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We have one of the newer Pilots. I think it is about 2 years old and we have 40-45k on the odometer. So far it has been like our other Hondas. Fill with gas, drive, change oil and repeat. Zero issues. My opinion is if the size and horsepower will work for you it should be good to go.

We has an Odyssey for 10 years. Tires and shocks are the common issues. Our mechanic said those are very common wear items for those vans. It probably didn’t help our cause that the last few years we owned it it took a lot of trips to the mountains.
 
We had a brand new 2012 touring up until 2015 when we were hit and then it was totaled. We waited a few months until the 2016 model came out because it was a new design year. We bought the touring again at 50k

Had great luck until about 45/48k miles and then were receiving transmission codes on the dash. Took it to Honda and they found nothing.

Drive it a few more hundred miles and the light came back on.

Took it to Honda and we were told the center console shifter had dirt in the buttons and this was preventing the transmission from knowing what gear we were in.

Now keep in mind we would receive the transmission error usually when we started the vehicle, not during driving.

Took it back to Honda in High Point to find out it had a transmission software update. Once they updated the transmission software it was a death trap. No joke when you go from a stop to start it would take 7-10 seconds to actually get into motion. I don’t mean like it was slow, I mean like it was like you were in delay mode or something.

(Let me just say, I am the kind of person who pushes things to the limit. Even I wouldn’t cross the center line on a blinking arrow, I would wait until green because i didn’t have any faith in that I would cross over before getting hit.)

Not only was the problem that this vehicle was under warranty and they didn’t want to fix it, it was also that they really didn’t care. 3 times at Honda with nothing but the run around on how the dirty part isn’t under warranty and that even if we buy a new $386 part they won’t warranty any of the parts connected to it.

I’ll never own a Honda again. Thats was the 3rd Honda we had owned. Sorry. If you can’t even honor the warranty provided with the vehicle you won’t ever get my business.

Take 5 minutes and google Honda Pilot transmission errors and bet you will never own one.
 
240,000 miles on a 2005 Pilot bought new. One of the best vehicles I ever owned. Added a tranny cooler early on, and other than tires and brake pads all I ever did was change the oil until 200K when a shift sensor went bad. 20$ part on Amazon and on she rolls. Still chugging.

If I could buy the exact vehicle today new, I would. They're different now...
 
We had a brand new 2012 touring up until 2015 when we were hit and then it was totaled. We waited a few months until the 2016 model came out because it was a new design year. We bought the touring again at 50k

Had great luck until about 45/48k miles and then were receiving transmission codes on the dash. Took it to Honda and they found nothing.

Drive it a few more hundred miles and the light came back on.

Took it to Honda and we were told the center console shifter had dirt in the buttons and this was preventing the transmission from knowing what gear we were in.

Now keep in mind we would receive the transmission error usually when we started the vehicle, not during driving.

Took it back to Honda in High Point to find out it had a transmission software update. Once they updated the transmission software it was a death trap. No joke when you go from a stop to start it would take 7-10 seconds to actually get into motion. I don’t mean like it was slow, I mean like it was like you were in delay mode or something.

(Let me just say, I am the kind of person who pushes things to the limit. Even I wouldn’t cross the center line on a blinking arrow, I would wait until green because i didn’t have any faith in that I would cross over before getting hit.)

Not only was the problem that this vehicle was under warranty and they didn’t want to fix it, it was also that they really didn’t care. 3 times at Honda with nothing but the run around on how the dirty part isn’t under warranty and that even if we buy a new $386 part they won’t warranty any of the parts connected to it.

I’ll never own a Honda again. Thats was the 3rd Honda we had owned. Sorry. If you can’t even honor the warranty provided with the vehicle you won’t ever get my business.

Take 5 minutes and google Honda Pilot transmission errors and bet you will never own one.


Similar experience. Wife bought a ‘16 a little after they came out.

At 30k we started to notice a slight surging from the transmission when accelerating under slight load (up hill). Took the car with video evidence of tac surging 300 rpm over and over to dealer. They could find zero issues in 3 trips and acknowledged the condition was there but “normal”. We traded it about 2k later for a 4runner. Other than that it was nice and comfortable.

FYI Will not fit 8 comfortably unless 3 are very young. With the 3rd row there is little cargo room left.
 
A buddy put something like 240K on his with no problems. Just from riding in his many times, it was pretty roomy, comfortable & seemed to have decent power.
 
Parents have a 2010 been a decent vehicle with limited problems over the years.


Notes on your wants and the vehicle


“8 seats (big family)
Cargo room for luggage and/or hunting gear.”

Do not plan to do both of these at same time cargo space is limted with all seats up.




Yes they will tow but not great at it so may depend how often you do it. We towed a pontoon boat with parents one time and its a smaller lighter one and it was struggling with it constantly hunting for gears and down shifting.
 
My sister has one and for driving the family around I think they’re fine. You can get 8 people in them but I wouldn’t want to be in there for hours unless it’s just a bunch of kids.

The 4wd on them is weak and not really a true 4wd. I don’t know what kind of muddy roads you drive through but if they require much wheel spin the Honda won’t like it. Also, the ground clearance isn’t great.

For general driving I think it would be fine but not sure I would pick it for a hunting vehicle.


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Other than there being 25 majillion of them on the road and they're utterly boring in terms of style or uniqueness...no...nothing inherently wrong with them.
 
We have an ‘05. Bought it used from friends that wanted to get out of a lease. It was about a year old and ~14K miles at the time. I think it’s about 180K now and she drives it daily. Other than. Basic maintenance, nothing so far.

I’ll need to get the manual out for actual statement, but it’s one of the funniest things I’ve seen printed as official documentation. It says something like “this vehicle is not made for extreme off -roading, but can handle a gravel road to a picnic table or campsite”. :D

I think it’s considered AWD as needed in D, but you can put it in 1 or 2 and lock the VTM.

...and no way you’d want to put three adults in the backseat.
 
Im on my 4th or 5th Pilot. I lease and get a new one every 2 or 3 yrs. I go to the range on average every other day. Started shooting bench rest matches and have been going to 2 matches a month as well. Has 3 rows of seats. I lay them all down and haul guns, rests, tools, ammo, 4 wheel cart, stool, etc. If you had all seats up, there is precious little cargo room. I had 2 Tahoe's years ago until Chevy went nutz on the price. They were great as well except for 1 the tranny went out just outside the warranty and the other one broke a front strut under warranty. I would not buy a Tahoe or Suburban w/o an extended warranty and I would try to negotiate that in. My Pilots have been super reliable and get great gas mileage. 24-25 combined 27 on match weekends highway. If you need a 6 passenger vehicle with room for gear, you need a Suburban.
 
The wife's car is a 2014 Pilot. We've been really happy with it for our uses. We have used it like a bus but you have to put skinny limber people in the way back seat. It's a great grocery getter/daily commuter but it's a light duty truck. It's not a van and to me it just doesn't seem rugged enough to tow a trailer down a rough road.
 
Ill say even our expedition (not the el) feels kinda cramped with 6 of us going camping, so id stick with the suburban
 
My brother is on his second. But he won't buy the new one. Too much smaller than the one he has. Can't haul 7 adults like the pre remodel version.
They had over 150k miles in the first one.

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I was a Honda tech for 38 years, until 4 years ago. So Some of this info might have changed since then. The VTM or Variable Torque management feature allows 4 wheel drive at very low speeds. It locks the front and rear diffs together from a stop and since both front and rear diffs are open, it uses the ABS system to control wheel speed. At 6 mph, it reduces power to the rear wheels and by 19 or so its back in front wheel drive mode until the front tires start spinning and then will apply power to the rears. While not true 4 wd, it works quite well. We were having troubles with the VCM or variable cylinder management system. This is where some cylinders will de activate upon cruising to increase fuel mileage. The front and rear motor mount are electrically activated to reduce vibrate and have been known to fail causing a vibration to be felt while driving in VCM mode and these mounts are NOT cheap. Remember that costing close to $2K for replacement. The VCM also was causing problems with excessive oil consumption due to the oil control rings sticking to the pistons. Ive replaced dozens and dozens of piston rings on all the Accords, Ridgeline, Odysseys and pilots that use this management and at that time, there wasn't a fix. Just replace the rings every 60-80 k miles. Seems like some vehicles that the problem, some didn't ? Just something to think about and get ready for. Hope this helps
 
I was a Honda tech for 38 years, until 4 years ago. So Some of this info might have changed since then. The VTM or Variable Torque management feature allows 4 wheel drive at very low speeds. It locks the front and rear diffs together from a stop and since both front and rear diffs are open, it uses the ABS system to control wheel speed. At 6 mph, it reduces power to the rear wheels and by 19 or so its back in front wheel drive mode until the front tires start spinning and then will apply power to the rears. While not true 4 wd, it works quite well. We were having troubles with the VCM or variable cylinder management system. This is where some cylinders will de activate upon cruising to increase fuel mileage. The front and rear motor mount are electrically activated to reduce vibrate and have been known to fail causing a vibration to be felt while driving in VCM mode and these mounts are NOT cheap. Remember that costing close to $2K for replacement. The VCM also was causing problems with excessive oil consumption due to the oil control rings sticking to the pistons. Ive replaced dozens and dozens of piston rings on all the Accords, Ridgeline, Odysseys and pilots that use this management and at that time, there wasn't a fix. Just replace the rings every 60-80 k miles. Seems like some vehicles that the problem, some didn't ? Just something to think about and get ready for. Hope this helps

Are you saying you replaced piston rings every 60-80k?


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I was a Honda tech for 38 years, until 4 years ago. So Some of this info might have changed since then. The VTM or Variable Torque management feature allows 4 wheel drive at very low speeds. It locks the front and rear diffs together from a stop and since both front and rear diffs are open, it uses the ABS system to control wheel speed. At 6 mph, it reduces power to the rear wheels and by 19 or so its back in front wheel drive mode until the front tires start spinning and then will apply power to the rears. While not true 4 wd, it works quite well. We were having troubles with the VCM or variable cylinder management system. This is where some cylinders will de activate upon cruising to increase fuel mileage. The front and rear motor mount are electrically activated to reduce vibrate and have been known to fail causing a vibration to be felt while driving in VCM mode and these mounts are NOT cheap. Remember that costing close to $2K for replacement. The VCM also was causing problems with excessive oil consumption due to the oil control rings sticking to the pistons. Ive replaced dozens and dozens of piston rings on all the Accords, Ridgeline, Odysseys and pilots that use this management and at that time, there wasn't a fix. Just replace the rings every 60-80 k miles. Seems like some vehicles that the problem, some didn't ? Just something to think about and get ready for. Hope this helps


They recalled my parents 2010 model I think for the ring issue. They were not having issues at time of 80k but they issued a recall to them so figured why not get it fixed at the time not knowing at the time it was basically rebuilding of the engine. But in hondas defense got it in and out pretty quick and haven’t had and issues from it
 
@Slappy McTrigger has one. Not sure of year.

Driving around on slick icy and snowy roads impressed the hell out of me. He parked it on steep solid ice section of his driveway and it easily stopped/started. Wouldn't take it down the Rubicon, but for reasonable everyday driving, muddy ranges, mild trails it would be more than I ever needed, personally.
 
Another vehicle to consider would be a Toyota Sequoia. Either generation is super reliable and has room for 7 or 8 depending on seat configuration. I have a friend with a 2005 with the 4.7 v8 and he has over 500k miles on his and it just keeps on trucking. We have a 2012 we've had for 4 or 5 years and it has been great. One issue with these with the V8 is fuel mileage. My wife only averages 14mpg around town with the big 5.7. It might hit 17mpg on a road trip.
 
We have an ‘05. Bought it used from friends that wanted to get out of a lease. It was about a year old and ~14K miles at the time. I think it’s about 180K now and she drives it daily. Other than. Basic maintenance, nothing so far.

I’ll need to get the manual out for actual statement, but it’s one of the funniest things I’ve seen printed as official documentation. It says something like “this vehicle is not made for extreme off -roading, but can handle a gravel road to a picnic table or campsite”. :D

I think it’s considered AWD as needed in D, but you can put it in 1 or 2 and lock the VTM.

...and no way you’d want to put three adults in the backseat.
DBBD89EB-9694-4F8E-8DA6-C3347EC566BD.jpeg
 
Are you saying you replaced piston rings every 60-80k?


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Well, no not exactly. I never had anyone rack up that kind of mileage in that time frame. But, I would expect to since what I was doing wasn't actually fixing anything. I was just replacing the rings with the same part # they came with. There no updated parts at that time. What I thought was interesting is that the only cylinders that were oil fouled were the ones that were deactivated during VCM activation.
 
Another vehicle to consider would be a Toyota Sequoia. Either generation is super reliable and has room for 7 or 8 depending on seat configuration. I have a friend with a 2005 with the 4.7 v8 and he has over 500k miles on his and it just keeps on trucking. We have a 2012 we've had for 4 or 5 years and it has been great. One issue with these with the V8 is fuel mileage. My wife only averages 14mpg around town with the big 5.7. It might hit 17mpg on a road trip.
As you know, I was a Honda tech for a long time, My wife still works for Honda after 15 years in a parts dept ? But we don't own one, Ima Toyota guy because I hate working on cars, especially my own. I have an 04 Scion with 401 K miles and a 2010 Camry with 200K on the clocks and both are surprisingly original. I hada Highlander for a couple of years and while it wasn't as nicely equipped or finished on the interior as the Pilot? I found it to have a much smoother ride, quieter and better power then the Pilot. Torque steer under hard accel was horrible tho, you better be ready to fight the wheel when passing someone on a back road. Something the Pilot had no troubles with.
 
Seems the fix would be a tune that deactivates vcm
If I owned one, I would probably look into it unless they actually came up a fix for the problem since I left Honda. That would probably help the engine mounts last longer also?
I work for Dodge/Jeep/Ram now,, hwweew talk about a company that has problem vehicles??
 
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Seems the fix would be a tune that deactivates vcm

I've read about people doing this in various ways because there aren't too many people our there flashing ECMs for minivans and SUVs. The most common way I saw was a diode put in the temp sensor for the ECM to make it think that it never hit operating temp by a couple of degrees. The VCM wouldn't come on until the engine was at full operating temperature.
I personally think this is stupid but a lot of people said it caused no issues for them. Mileage didn't change, no spark plug fouling...etc.

Well, no not exactly. I never had anyone rack up that kind of mileage in that time frame. But, I would expect to since what I was doing wasn't actually fixing anything. I was just replacing the rings with the same part # they came with. There no updated parts at that time. What I thought was interesting is that the only cylinders that were oil fouled were the ones that were deactivated during VCM activation.

This doesn't surprise me at all from my little experience with Honda 3.5s and the VCM. We have a 2012 Odyssey that uses the same engine and ECM. The first cylinder on the rear bank(I think it's #1 but I forget Honda's numbering order) is always the worst for spark plugs. Honda says they should last for 100k miles but I've never gotten 50k out of that one. The front bank is fine but the rear bank is always darker and #1 is fouled. My opinion is that it has to do with fuel being switched on and off with the VCM and I'm guessing they time it off the #1 cylinder which is why that one is quicker to foul plugs. It doesn't smoke or use any oil so I never really thought about piston rings and the plug just looked like it had been run rich.

And we've got 200k miles on that thing and I'll change a lot of spark plugs before I start pulling pistons out.
 
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Honda is a Japanese company. You are looking to buy a Japanese pilot.

Japanese pilots were very good if you overlook the whole rising sun, kill all the round eyes mindset. But since they always tried to take out as many evil white people as possible you’ll probably be ok unless you put the whole family in the car. Then it might just kamikaze you into a tree.
 
Honda is a Japanese company. You are looking to buy a Japanese pilot.

Japanese pilots were very good if you overlook the whole the whole rising sun, kill all the round eyes mindset. But since they always tried to take out as many evil white people as possible you’ll probably be ok unless you put the whole family in the car. Then it might just kamikaze you into a tree.

Hahha. Are you sitting by a fire pit with a pipe? That sounds oddly like something a friend of mine would say late at night by the pit.
 
Hahha. Are you sitting by a fire pit with a pipe? That sounds oddly like something a friend of mine would say late at night by the pit.
What would be wrong with above said statement?


Never own a pilot. Honda makes great CARS not TRUCKS.

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Well, no not exactly. I never had anyone rack up that kind of mileage in that time frame. But, I would expect to since what I was doing wasn't actually fixing anything. I was just replacing the rings with the same part # they came with. There no updated parts at that time. What I thought was interesting is that the only cylinders that were oil fouled were the ones that were deactivated during VCM activation.

My dad and I were talking about this yesterday and he brought up piston temperature. It makes sense that the cylinder cools down when not in use which in turn leads to a higher level of carbon build up which will foul a spark plug as well as potentially cause rings to stick.
 
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