H.R.1186 - Keep Americans Safe Act

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So...appears as Congress gets back to work, this bill will finally get looked at in committee. Will this be the one where the Red Coat Repubs turn out to support so they can say they are doing something?

Will see how this develops over the next session.



https://www.wral.com/high-capacity-magazines-get-new-scrutiny-as-congress-returns/18607185/


***********************************************

Keep Americans Safe Act

This bill establishes a new criminal offense for the import, sale, manufacture, transfer, or possession of a large capacity ammunition feeding device (LCAFD).

The bill does not prohibit certain conduct with respect to an LCAFD, including the following:

  • importation, sale, manufacture, transfer, or possession related to certain law enforcement efforts, or authorized tests or experiments;
  • importation, sale, transfer, or possession related to securing nuclear materials; and
  • possession by a retired law enforcement officer.
The bill permits continued possession of, but prohibits sale or transfer of, a grandfathered LCAFD.

Newly manufactured LCAFDs must display serial number identification and the date of manufacture.

Additionally, the bill allows a state or local government to use Edward Byrne Memorial Justice Assistance Grant Program funds to compensate individuals who surrender an LCAFD under a buy-back program.
 
Additionally, the bill allows a state or local government to use Edward Byrne Memorial Justice Assistance Grant Program funds to compensate individuals who surrender an LCAFD under a buy-back program.

Is this where I take my worn out, beat up and dented 30 rounders I paid $5 for and get like $40-50 for them?
 
IF something like this makes it thru banning mags over 10 rounds and have the grandfather clause ... how will the powers in charge know mfg dates? The only mags I own with date codes are GI mags ... not PMAGS, Glocks, Sigs or any others I can think of. I have read that newly manufactured mags will supposedly be required to have date of mfg stamped but that’s not written in stone. Even even how many overzealous “empowered” government agents will respect “grandfathered” mags and how many, especially in certain unfriendly jurisdictions, will wrongfully confiscate them because they’re illegal hi-cap mags?
 
apologies...forgot to post the link to the actual Bill; please note this will ban ALL MAGAZINES with more than 10rd capacity, handgun & rifle. Only exception is attached .22 tubular magazines.

https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/house-bill/1186

Always concerning when a Bill has been around (first introduced in 2017) this long and all of a sudden gets cued for committee review where it had previously been stalled.
 
Additionally, the bill allows a state or local government to use Edward Byrne Memorial Justice Assistance Grant Program funds to compensate individuals who surrender an LCAFD under a buy-back program.

Is this where I take my worn out, beat up and dented 30 rounders I paid $5 for and get like $40-50 for them?
No, this is where I print them for five cents and get $40 back for them.
 
Let's start a letter and calling campaign telling them to put a politician control bill on the list before these measures.
 
Let's start a letter and calling campaign telling them to put a politician control bill on the list before these measures.

Yes,,

First up is Mr. Biden during 8 years as VP for Treason Control to determine if his guidance and influence assisted his son Hunter sell / acquire U.S. manufacturing companies that have National Security Interest with the Chinese.
Hunter Biden Helped China Buy Our ‘National Security’ Assets
https://www.carolinafirearmsforum.c...-national-security-assets-time-to-puke.48361/

Second at least three of the Dem Socialist ( Elizabeth Warren >Lizzy Borden< & the Castro Bro's ) need to be checked out concerning back door Ties to La Raza.

All of them need to be checked out for receiving funding from any $oros connection~s, period.
 
But the government can not keep all of us safe so why bother with foolish legislation.
 
Just saw where Walmart is selling no more handgun ammo. Also no ammo for AR Pistol "types". Here we go...New Mexico put Walmart Out of the firearms business because of mandatory FFL transactions for ALL firearms sales. Wally World said...we ain't participatin…..


Also McConnel promises a vote on firearms legislation IF Trump wants it!?
 
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But the government can not keep all of us safe so why bother with foolish legislation.
I don’t know just how true it is ... but back at the beginning of WWII the 2A supposedly kept Japan from thinking about invading the US ... the behind every blade of grass thing. In today’s world it might be applicable but there still some who would act against foreign and domestic threats.
 
I don’t know just how true it is ... but back at the beginning of WWII the 2A supposedly kept Japan from thinking about invading the US ... the behind every blade of grass thing. In today’s world it might be applicable but there still some who would act against foreign and domestic threats.


The below is not mine...at least not all of it. I copied this back in 07- or 08 from a post somewhere on another shooting forum, but don't remember where. Just want to clarify I didn't write it, but do agree with it and thought it appropriate to share here since the Nation of Rifleman" was brought up. This speaks to the cultural war that was discussed in another thread...a war we are slowly losing.

*********************************************

Early in World War II, Japan considered invading the mainland of the United States. Admiral Yamamoto, commander in chief of the Japanese naval forces and architect of the Pearl Harbor bombing, advised against invading. Twenty years prior, Admiral Yamamoto had spent a few years in the United States studying at Harvard University. Based on his experience with American culture, Admiral Yamamoto reportedly told his government, "I would never invade the United States. There would be a rifle behind every blade of grass."

Admiral Yamamoto's observation speaks to the heart of America's uniqueness. The Admiral observed, in essence, that America was not a nation of subjects, who could be expected to cower and hope for their government to save them. It was a nation of citizens ready, willing, and able to defend their piece of ground against all comers, as a matter of civic duty, personal responsibility, and pride. It was the presence of citizens such as these–not the United States military–that filled his heart with fear.

From the drafting of the Bill of Rights onward, America has placed its faith not in the hands of a cultural, political, or academic elite, or in a standing military, but rather in the hands of armed, self-reliant citizens with the desire and ability to care for themselves. The United States was designed not to be a nation of subejcts, like every other on earth, but a nation of men. A nation of riflemen.

It is unsurprising that the Admiral, coming from the conformist culture of Japan, was impressed by the gritty self-reliance of American culture. Even in the soft confines of Harvard, the social norm of individualism was in sufficient evidence to catch Admiral Yamamoto's attention.

The Admiral's concern came not just from the individualistic spirit he observed in American culture, but also from the rifles that would fill their capable hands if an invasion was attempted. America at that time, and throughout most of its history, prided itself on being a "nation of riflemen," where every able-bodied man was, if not a master marksman, at least competent in the use of a longarm.

The concept of a "nation of riflemen" was not the product of some unhealthy cultural obsession with weapons, nor did it arise from any remarkable immediate threat to popular safety. The concept was the natural outgrowth of spirit evident in the very founding of the United States, the spirit that made Americans unique and America great. The rifle is, implicitly, the symbol of the self-reliant American.

Why use a rifle as the symbol of self-reliance? Because no other thing, word, or sign is nearly as fitting. In The Prince, Nicolo Machievelli wrote, "etween an armed and an unarmed man, there is no comparison whatsoever . . . ." An unarmed man is, by definition, a dependent. He is incapable of securing his own safety. He must depend on someone else to defend him against attack, whether from a stray dog, a lone criminal, an organized gang, or a foreign army. He rightly fears any separation from society, because solitude separates him from those who can defend him and singles him out as a target for those who might wish to harm him. He is tied by his interest in self-preservation to whoever assumes the burden of defending him. His need to be defended puts him at the mercy of his defender, and over time, he by neccesity becomes their subject.

An armed man, by contrast, has the means for independence. While he may choose to avail himself of help in securing his own safety, he does not need it. He can, if he chooses, separate himself from society without fear, confident that he can preserve himself without aid. He can even hunt meat, skins, and furs for his own food and clothes, freeing himself at least in part from the social economy. He is not fundamentally dependent on anyone, and therefore has no need to become subject to another's demands. Moreover, he has the means to resist anyone who would seek to force him into subjectivity. A rifle, more than any other tool, enables a man who desires self-reliance to attain it.

Just as the spirit of self-reliance is stillborn if the person it inspires is unarmed, a rifle is worse than useless in the hands of someone without the mindset to use it for its intended purpose. It takes a man–a real man, who believes in personal responsibility, in a duty to defend himself, his family, and his friends, who values courage and seeks to possess it–to make a rifleman of the sort whose existence deterred the Japanese from invading the US.

America, sadly, seems to be a nation with a rapidly dwindling population of such men. Biologically male humans continue to be born and to die at normal rates, but men are increasingly scarce. Public schools raise boys to be good little girls by punishing any sign of initiative, assertiveness, decisiveness, aggression, stubborness, or independence of thought–traits essential to a self-reliant man; traits our Founding Fathers had in spades. Attributes found in most boys and that would, if left alone, develop in manhood into a capacity for self-reliance, are shamed and punished out of many of them before they graduate junior high.

On the other side of the age spectrum, the government seeks endlessly to expand entitlement programs such as universal health care, and will likely continue to push until everyone in America is, in one fashion or another, dependent on it for some essential service. Self-reliance is, literally, in danger of becoming outlawed. It is unsurprising that many state governments also seek to outlaw firearms, the symbol of self-reliance. The passion and persistence of the anti-gun movement is inexplicable until understood in the context of the symbolic importance of firearms. It is not firearms these politicians hate with such vehemence–after all, hating a piece of inanimate iron is too silly to be contemplated seriously by intelligent adults–but rather the self-reliance symbolized by firearms. They seek to ban not guns per se, but rather the kind man who neither wants, nor needs, nor can be compelled to accept their vision of a wholly dependent society, guided by the wisdom of an elite few.

America still has plenty of rifles, at least for the moment. What she lacks is men–the kind of men in whose hands a rifle is not merely a weapon, but a symbol of freedom, a condemnation of tyranny, and a standing refusal to become a subject. The Constitutional drafters understood that the existence of liberty requires on such men, and drafted the Second Amendment to ensure that they would always remain armed. The drafters never anticipated that the self-reliant man would be outlawed before the rifles were.
 
People built and owned their homes in the 1700s. There were no mortgages. People forget that. Now people have to go to work and don't have time or money for a revolution. That's the rub.
 
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People built and owned their homes in the 1700s. There were no mortgages. People forget that. Now people have to go to work and don't have time or money for a revolution. That's the rub.
Wait for a great economic crash. Then they’ll have no jobs and when the banks try to take their homes things might get exciting. I’m honestly surprised things didn’t get really sporty a decade ago. I think the social mood has soured a lot since then.
 
Judiciary committee meeting scheduled for tomorrow 04 Sep has been postponed...looks like they are reviewing three bills for markup:

1. H.R. 1236, Extreme Risk Protection Order Act of 2019
2. H.R. 1186, Keep Americans Safe Act
3. H.R. 2708, Disarm Hate Act

https://docs.house.gov/Committee/Calendar/ByEvent.aspx?EventID=109890


Judiciary meets this afternoon in Mordor on the Potomac to mark up all three of these Bills...RedCoat Nadler provided the markups/amendments to each (see here: https://docs.house.gov/Committee/Calendar/ByEvent.aspx?EventID=109917 ).
 
Wait for a great economic crash. Then they’ll have no jobs and when the banks try to take their homes things might get exciting. I’m honestly surprised things didn’t get really sporty a decade ago. I think the social mood has soured a lot since then.

I don’t think things got ugly enough. People were still eating, had gas, cell phones and what not. Yes, things were tight but people still had their comforts.

Do you remember the gas shortage back in 2007 or 08? People were calling out of work because they couldn’t come in or didn’t have enough gas to get home.
That came closer to violence, in my experience, then all of the recession.


I agree with what you’re saying though.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
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Do you remember the gas shortage back in 2007 or 08?
No, I don't recall the shortage, but I do remember the prices being sky high in 2008 until the recession hit hard. Up through Dec 2007, I was working a few miles from home and would fill up my vehicle once every other week. In Jan 2008, I took a job that had me commuting Mon and Fri from High Point to Richmond, VA and back. I don't recall having a gas shortage but do recall buying a much more fuel efficient vehicle and the reduction in fuel expenditure was about 2/3 of the monthly car payment.
 
The below is not mine...at least not all of it. I copied this back in 07- or 08 from a post somewhere on another shooting forum, but don't remember where. Just want to clarify I didn't write it, but do agree with it and thought it appropriate to share here since the Nation of Rifleman" was brought up. This speaks to the cultural war that was discussed in another thread...a war we are slowly losing.

*********************************************

Early in World War II, Japan considered invading the mainland of the United States. Admiral Yamamoto, commander in chief of the Japanese naval forces and architect of the Pearl Harbor bombing, advised against invading. Twenty years prior, Admiral Yamamoto had spent a few years in the United States studying at Harvard University. Based on his experience with American culture, Admiral Yamamoto reportedly told his government, "I would never invade the United States. There would be a rifle behind every blade of grass."

Admiral Yamamoto's observation speaks to the heart of America's uniqueness. The Admiral observed, in essence, that America was not a nation of subjects, who could be expected to cower and hope for their government to save them. It was a nation of citizens ready, willing, and able to defend their piece of ground against all comers, as a matter of civic duty, personal responsibility, and pride. It was the presence of citizens such as these–not the United States military–that filled his heart with fear.

From the drafting of the Bill of Rights onward, America has placed its faith not in the hands of a cultural, political, or academic elite, or in a standing military, but rather in the hands of armed, self-reliant citizens with the desire and ability to care for themselves. The United States was designed not to be a nation of subejcts, like every other on earth, but a nation of men. A nation of riflemen.

It is unsurprising that the Admiral, coming from the conformist culture of Japan, was impressed by the gritty self-reliance of American culture. Even in the soft confines of Harvard, the social norm of individualism was in sufficient evidence to catch Admiral Yamamoto's attention.

The Admiral's concern came not just from the individualistic spirit he observed in American culture, but also from the rifles that would fill their capable hands if an invasion was attempted. America at that time, and throughout most of its history, prided itself on being a "nation of riflemen," where every able-bodied man was, if not a master marksman, at least competent in the use of a longarm.

The concept of a "nation of riflemen" was not the product of some unhealthy cultural obsession with weapons, nor did it arise from any remarkable immediate threat to popular safety. The concept was the natural outgrowth of spirit evident in the very founding of the United States, the spirit that made Americans unique and America great. The rifle is, implicitly, the symbol of the self-reliant American.

Why use a rifle as the symbol of self-reliance? Because no other thing, word, or sign is nearly as fitting. In The Prince, Nicolo Machievelli wrote, "etween an armed and an unarmed man, there is no comparison whatsoever . . . ." An unarmed man is, by definition, a dependent. He is incapable of securing his own safety. He must depend on someone else to defend him against attack, whether from a stray dog, a lone criminal, an organized gang, or a foreign army. He rightly fears any separation from society, because solitude separates him from those who can defend him and singles him out as a target for those who might wish to harm him. He is tied by his interest in self-preservation to whoever assumes the burden of defending him. His need to be defended puts him at the mercy of his defender, and over time, he by neccesity becomes their subject.

An armed man, by contrast, has the means for independence. While he may choose to avail himself of help in securing his own safety, he does not need it. He can, if he chooses, separate himself from society without fear, confident that he can preserve himself without aid. He can even hunt meat, skins, and furs for his own food and clothes, freeing himself at least in part from the social economy. He is not fundamentally dependent on anyone, and therefore has no need to become subject to another's demands. Moreover, he has the means to resist anyone who would seek to force him into subjectivity. A rifle, more than any other tool, enables a man who desires self-reliance to attain it.

Just as the spirit of self-reliance is stillborn if the person it inspires is unarmed, a rifle is worse than useless in the hands of someone without the mindset to use it for its intended purpose. It takes a man–a real man, who believes in personal responsibility, in a duty to defend himself, his family, and his friends, who values courage and seeks to possess it–to make a rifleman of the sort whose existence deterred the Japanese from invading the US.

America, sadly, seems to be a nation with a rapidly dwindling population of such men. Biologically male humans continue to be born and to die at normal rates, but men are increasingly scarce. Public schools raise boys to be good little girls by punishing any sign of initiative, assertiveness, decisiveness, aggression, stubborness, or independence of thought–traits essential to a self-reliant man; traits our Founding Fathers had in spades. Attributes found in most boys and that would, if left alone, develop in manhood into a capacity for self-reliance, are shamed and punished out of many of them before they graduate junior high.

On the other side of the age spectrum, the government seeks endlessly to expand entitlement programs such as universal health care, and will likely continue to push until everyone in America is, in one fashion or another, dependent on it for some essential service. Self-reliance is, literally, in danger of becoming outlawed. It is unsurprising that many state governments also seek to outlaw firearms, the symbol of self-reliance. The passion and persistence of the anti-gun movement is inexplicable until understood in the context of the symbolic importance of firearms. It is not firearms these politicians hate with such vehemence–after all, hating a piece of inanimate iron is too silly to be contemplated seriously by intelligent adults–but rather the self-reliance symbolized by firearms. They seek to ban not guns per se, but rather the kind man who neither wants, nor needs, nor can be compelled to accept their vision of a wholly dependent society, guided by the wisdom of an elite few.

America still has plenty of rifles, at least for the moment. What she lacks is men–the kind of men in whose hands a rifle is not merely a weapon, but a symbol of freedom, a condemnation of tyranny, and a standing refusal to become a subject. The Constitutional drafters understood that the existence of liberty requires on such men, and drafted the Second Amendment to ensure that they would always remain armed. The drafters never anticipated that the self-reliant man would be outlawed before the rifles were.

This is incredibly articulate and prescient, and helped me understand why the collectivists are so committed to citizen disarmament. I wish you could find the source, I think I would like to read more. Thank you for posting it.
 
ive always heard it was false - but i take everything off the net with a grain of salt anyway. liberals and revisionists dont like the quote because it adds legitimacy to arguments from gun rights advocates and thats a big no no - they dont want any part of that

from wiki
Misattributed
  • You cannot invade the mainland United States. There would be a rifle behind every blade of grass.
    • It has been declared this attribution is "unsubstantiated and almost certainly bogus, even though it has been repeated thousands of times in various Internet postings. There is no record of the commander in chief of Japan’s wartime fleet ever saying it.", according to source Brooks Jackson in "Misquoting Yamamoto" at Factcheck.org (11 May 2009), which cites source Donald M. Goldstein, sometimes called "the dean of Pearl Harbor historians", writing "I have never seen it in writing. It has been attributed to the Prange files [the files of the late Gordon W. Prange, chief historian on the staff of Gen. Douglas MacArthur] but no one had ever seen it or cited it from where they got it."
comment from reddit
There really is not any evidence for the alleged letter mentioning "blade of grass," and there are serious doubts that it existed for two reasons.

One, the letter allegedly came from the files of Gordon Prange. He was a historian assigned to MacArthur's staff for the occupation. These duties brought Prange into contact with a number of surviving Japanese officers, which was an important connection for his postwar career as an author of a number of books on the Pacific War such as At Dawn We Slept. While this might appear to give Prange a degree of veracity, his histories are somewhat problematic at places. He had a tendency to take his interview subjects at their word and perpetuated a number of myths such as the vulnerability of Pearl Harbor's oil reserves. This is particularly true of his accounts from Japan. Although I am not a 100% certain on this, I am fairly sure Prange did not speak Japanese, or fluently enough not to rely on a translator. Nearly all the Japanese sources in his books cite Japanese individuals like Chihaya Masataka who provided Prange the documents and translated them for Prange. The January 1941 letter to Sasakawa Ryoichi in which he claimed that peace would be certain if we marched into the White House came from the IJN lawyer Juji Enomoto. This is not necessarily bad, Japanese is a difficult language to master, but it did allow some individuals to put out their own self-interested claims with relative impunity. The Pearl Harbor flight leader Fuchida Mitsuo told a number of tales such as the abortive third strike on Pearl or the Japanese carriers a Midway being on the verge of launching their planes before being destroyed. None of these narratives appeared in the immediate postwar interrogations and the often originated with Fuchida in the 1950s and Prange repeated them. IJN officers, much like their German counterparts, were very self-interested in producing a self-exculpatory explanation for their defeat in the 1950s. Prange did his part in perpetuating these mythologies.

The second reason to be highly skeptical of this quote is that neither the IJN, nor anyone else in Japan's military and state hierarchy, were envisioning an occupation of the mainland US. The overarching goal of Japan in 1941 was to secure what Japanese military planners termed the Southern Resources Area (SRA). The SRA consisted of the Philippines, SE Asia, Indonesia, Borneo, and possibly parts of India. The overall rationale behind this was that the SRA would allow Japan near autarky in terms of natural resources such as oil or rubber. Concurrent to the Japanese seizure of the SRA was the expansion of Japanese bases into the Pacific to form an iron-clad defensive perimeter that would prevent the Americans from retaking the SRA. The Pearl Harbor raid's main objective was to prevent the USN from interfering with the seizure of the SRA. The hope among IJN planners was that the defensive ring would enable the conditions for a decisive naval battle to occur. Peace would then occur after the battle had been won and the SRA would be harnessed for Japan's regional power and Nationalist China would come to terms being blockaded from all sides. Further Japanese expansion might occur in India, Australia, or (most likely) the USSR, but not California or Oregon.

This context is pretty vital to understand Yamamoto's statements like his January 1941 letter to Sasakawa. While some nationalist hotheads envisioned an easy victory over the US, the IJN anticipated a very tough campaign against the US. While they were incorrect about both the efficacy of their defensive barrier and the IJN elevated the idea of a decisive battle to near cultlike proportions, the IJN chiefs still thought war against the US was a difficult proposition. Any moves to expand Japanese power beyond the SRA and the defensive barrier often entailed bitter fights between the services and operations like Midway had to pass significant hurdles before their approval.

All of this makes the gun advocates' use of the "blade of grass" letter somewhat obscene. For one thing, the letter has never been verified to exist; it does not really come up within the historical literature independent of gun control debates. Now Prange's papers are available at the University of Maryland and Enomoto's are at the Institute for Defense Studies in Japan, but nobody in these debates looks for them. More often than not, gun advocates just do not care if the letter exists, such as this letter to the editor which downplays the lack of evidence for the letter and states:

After all, [the letter] either does exist or it doesn't. But the facts remain. Japan did not invade the U.S. mainland after Pearl Harbor. And we were armed.

So I stand by the Yamamoto quote, and leave it up to the reader to determine its validity. But I personally don't see a problem.

This is a very lazy way to do history. Japan did not invade the US mainland because there were no plans to do so, even over the long-term. The fact is no serious Japanese military planner was envisioning an occupation of the mainland US. Private ownership of guns was completely irrelevant to Japanese calculations which were more predicated on existing military strategies and bottlenecks in their military capabilities such as shipping.
 
from wiki
Misattributed
  • You cannot invade the mainland United States. There would be a rifle behind every blade of grass.
    • It has been declared this attribution is "unsubstantiated and almost certainly bogus, even though it has been repeated thousands of times in various Internet postings. There is no record of the commander in chief of Japan’s wartime fleet ever saying it.", according to source Brooks Jackson in "Misquoting Yamamoto" at Factcheck.org (11 May 2009), which cites source Donald M. Goldstein, sometimes called "the dean of Pearl Harbor historians", writing "I have never seen it in writing. It has been attributed to the Prange files [the files of the late Gordon W. Prange, chief historian on the staff of Gen. Douglas MacArthur] but no one had ever seen it or cited it from where they got it."
Understood

However "Under Every Grain of Sand" has been tested.

Who in their right mind would want to Test "Behind Every Blade Of Grass?"

Principle

For the record, Nevada was not wholly about grazing fees.
Grazing Fees became more of a convenient cover story.
Yes, there were grazing fees in dispute and that was argued to between the state and Bundy, not Feds & Bundy.
Back story involved Harry Reid ( then a senator ) and his son Rory selling or leasing land to the Chinese for a Solar farm.
There is also a Federal Judge in the North West that ruled against the gov't for similar actions taken against Bundy.
In the other case~s the judge either did or cited that he should charge the gov't with the RICO Act as well.


Principle.jpg
 
Judiciary meets this afternoon in Mordor on the Potomac to mark up all three of these Bills...RedCoat Nadler provided the markups/amendments to each (see here: https://docs.house.gov/Committee/Calendar/ByEvent.aspx?EventID=109917 ).


...and in Mordor after the sun went down...
...all three bills were passed by the committee, most republicans were against, but the Red Coat Repubs were showing their true colors...we will see these back on the House floor for vote very soon. H.R. 1236, Extreme Risk Protection Order Act of 2019 (RED FLAG LAW) is the one they spent the most time on and the one Nadler nailed home hardest; to their credit, the republicans argued strongly against (but not sure how much of the arguing was just grandstanding)...in the end it was passed, same as the others

The Senate is another issue, although they have their own versions of similar bills working as well. It is likely they will craft a compromise bill that POTUS will be willing to sign, at least in regards to one of these or combination of.


I believe that POTUS is going to sign something...he will do "something"...just too soon to tell which amendments in the BoR will be trampled on (again).
 
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