Can they be liable?

KnotRight

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Let pose this question. I am in an establishment that will not let me carry a gun while in their place of business and when walking back to my car where I left my CCW and get mugged. Can I sue the establishment because of their rule kept me from being able to protect myself when I left their establishment?

This would not happen unless the establishment has metal detectors at the front door.
 
Regardless, it would be good legal fodder. It's a benefit either way to the pro 2a side. If they are responsible, gunbuster signs will vanish. If not, we have a solid argument angle for expansion of carry rights and removal of the weight of law pertaining to the signs.
 
I would think that the deal breaker of this scenario is that YOU had a choice of going to this establishment that doesn't allow one to arm themselves
This ^ is what I have been told several times. I do not agree with it because sometimes you do not have a choice or an alternative.
 
I would think that the deal breaker of this scenario is that YOU had a choice of going to this establishment that doesn't allow one to arm themselves

This ^^^^^^



" I AM IN an establishment that will not let me carry a gun while IN their place of business "

You made the decision to enter on your own free will, so you had no concern about getting mugged THERE. If you had concern, you would not have entered.
 
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We can complicate it up some, but the answer is No. You’d never even get to a trial unless the judge is drunk or asleep.
 
This ^^^^^^



" I AM IN an establishment that will not let me carry a gun while IN their place of business "

You made the decision to enter on your own free will, so you had no concern about getting mugged THERE. If you had concern, you would not have entered.
Hence my sad avoidance of the Bonefish Grill in Aberdeen. They had "that sign" on the door, so I chose not to participate in their fantastic food....sigh.....
 
Concealed means concealed lol. I'll take my infraction and pay the $500 fine (in NC)


Ik, Help me here with understanding your statement.


Are you saying:

  1. You got caught carrying in a business that hosts no-carry rules and they reported you?
-or-

2. You engaged a threat while carrying in a business that hosts no-carry rules? ( L/E involved )
 
Ik, Help me here with understanding your statement.


Are you saying:

  1. You got caught carrying in a business that hosts no-carry rules and they reported you?
-or-

2. You engaged a threat while carrying in a business that hosts no-carry rules? ( L/E involved )
Either. The language of the original statute doesn't stipulate how you were caught carrying per HB597 only that it's now an infraction and not a misdemeanor. I would assume you were asked to leave and didn't in scenario #1 which is also trespassing
 
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Interesting, Either way you get "busted" breaking a rule.

One involved the business owner, the other involves both the Police and the Business owner.

What if the business sues you for ignoring their posted rules and endangering/engaging their clientele?
 
Interesting, Either way you get "busted" breaking a rule.

One involved the business owner, the other involves both the Police and the Business owner.

What if the business sues you for ignoring their posted rules and endangering/engaging their clientele?
They could do that civil action I supposed, and I would just pull a Trump and file chap 7 lol
 
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They could do that civilly I supposed, and I would just pull a Trump and file chap 7 lol

Thats kind of my point. Either way, a civil trial is gonna pop up if a rule was broke, and or shots were fired. A negligence charge would be hard to beat, and consume your life unnecessarily.
 
I really can't imagine seeing a sign on a door, then running back to my car to put my gun away.

Would you take a chance and enter the business ?

or

Would you turn around and exit the property?
 
I agree while you are in the establishment but outside of the establishment you run into the problem. Maybe in their parking lot or just on city streets. The establishment stopped you from protecting yourself outside. I keep saying establishment because it could be the hospital or government building that have metal detectors. Without a metal detector, I have my gun with me. If the bank, store or whatever gets robbed they should have insurance and screw being a hero with a lot of problems.
 
Thats kind of my point. Either way, a civil trial is gonna pop up if a rule was broke, and or shots were fired. A negligence charge would be hard to beat, and consume your life unnecessarily.
Civil immunity applies to self defense use of deadly force in NC. I'm not staking everything on that but it would be an obstacle to a business trying to sue you for anything short of killing one of their employees that was a threat

FWIW there have been a few test cases in which this has happened both by employees and guests of posted business in the last few years. IIRC I dont recall anyone being charged or sued, but one employee was fired for carrying
 
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What happens when you are mugged using an outdoor Bank ATM that is positioned in a grocery store parking lot, or a plaza, or out on an island in a stadium parking lot where No-Carry rules are in place? The bank does not own the property, and/or the building the ATM is located in/at.

Who is the "establishment" responsible for procuring insurance for safety?
 
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Would you take a chance and enter the business ?

or

Would you turn around and exit the property?

In almost all instances I turn around and exit the property. I'd rather take my business to an establishment that does not endanger it's patrons by being a "criminals exempted gun free zone."
 
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Civil immunity applies to self defense use of deadly force in NC. I'm not staking everything on that but it would be an obstacle to a business trying to sue you for anything short of killing one of their employees that was a threat

If one engages, there will be a victim(s). Unfortunately, Court will become a way of life.
 
What happens when you are mugged using an outdoor Bank ATM that is positioned in a grocery store parking lot, or a plaza, or out on an island in a stadium parking lot? The bank does not own the property.

Who is the "establishment" responsible for procuring insurance your safety?

Hashknife, in your scenario, no one told you that you could not have a gun there. Again, if it does not have a metal detector, I have a gun.
 
It is my understanding that a business is required to take reasonable steps to ensure the safety of customers and others from on-premise injury. A premises liability suit claimant usually has to prove that the business was negligent in that they knew of the threat to safety and did not act to prevent it. Defendants in your hypothetical case would doubtless argue that there was no negligence (assuming that they did not know of a specific threat).

As always, my sig line applies here. :D
 
Tennessee did in Fact pass legislation that says if you post, you ARE responsible. If only S.C. Pukes would follow suit.
 
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This ^ is what I have been told several times. I do not agree with it because sometimes you do not have a choice or an alternative.

You may not have a convenient choice, but there is always a choice.
 
I always think about this with my employer. We have had armed security at times (lay-off days) but that goes away a week later. The building is posted but far from secured.

I don’t want to find out.
 
Tennessee did in Fact pass legislation that says if you post, you ARE responsible. If only S.C. Pukes would follow suit.

Can't find anything on it. Got a link for the legislation? I'd like to read it. Then maybe propose something similar to our congresscritters...
 
Can't find anything on it. Got a link for the legislation? I'd like to read it. Then maybe propose something similar to our congresscritters...
Yessir, Google Tennessee post a no gun sign be liable. That's what I just did. Easy peasy!! Great Law!!!

Effective July 1, 2016

Damn!! Also says to and from!!!!!!
 
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