9/11, gullible conspiracy morons, and......

That it could happen 80 times, over and over, all the way to the ground, without assistance from demolition explosives, is a ridiculous implausibility.
I think we understand the world, the universe and everything, very differently.

The scale of that structure makes it hard to draw from experience. The plane struck the North Tower between floor 93 and 99 of 110 total floors. When the structure failed, everything above started moving down.

In my reality, if I was able to pick up a 15 story building and drop it on top of another similar building, it's going to pulverize it. Short of the earth itself there is nothing that can withstand that momentum. I don't need to insert explosives for that scene to make sense.

All of this is admittedly biased by watching the collapses on live TV. I'll never forget that.
To be clear: I don't know the truth about 911. I'm only trying to influence your view of what's plausible.
 
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Lotsa folks think it was hit by a missile. A french website published photos that were available online on 9/11 and it showed damage consistent with a missile, and inconsistent with an airliner.

Hundreds of eyewitnesses saw the AC impact the building, and were interviewed by local and federal LE as well as media. Not thinking it was a missile.
 
This paper provides the best technical analysis I’ve seen with regard to how the buildings collapsed. It took me a while to work through it (back in 2010) because it has been a minute since I took Diff Eq, Materials, etc. And this ain’t exactly like doing a math problem. Anyone can do a LaPlace transform if you use the right formula and follow the steps. Wrapping one’s head around this is a completely different thing.

There is also what I would call the “molten aluminum theory” by a guy named Simensen that came out three years after the Northwestern paper. While more complicated I think it is plausible. Bazant, who helped write the paper linked below, wasn’t a fan of the theory.

All that said, this explanation makes the most sense to me.

http://cee.northwestern.edu/people/bazant/PDFs/Papers - Backup 2_20_2013/476 WTC collapse.pdf
 
I silenced someone once through a practical experiment with him.

I handed him a piece of 1/2 inch diameter steel rod, about 2 1/2 feet long and said "take our in your hands and try to bend it".

Of course, he couldn't.

Then I buried center of the rod in the middle of the charcoal in the grill and heated it to a nice, cherry red in the center.

I gave him a pair of gloves and said "hold it by the ends and try to bend it".

It bent.

I said "That color indicated it was about 1500 degrees F, the temperature at which jet fuel burns. Still think steel can't fail below its melting point?"

He never said anything to me about 9/11 conspiracy stuff again.

He was still a 9/11 conspiracy fruitcake, don't get me wrong. He just never brought it up around me again.

 
im not here to put a dog in the fight but something i learned this weekend applies here. its an experiment you can even try at home.

grab some cinder blocks and stand on em. they hold ya up just fine, right?

now use them to make a tight little fire pit the size of a 55 gallon barrel, toss some wood and states evidence in there as kindling, a bit of gasoline to speed things up, and start a fire.

let it burn a while, i think mine was about 8-9 hours. next day, go out and start moving them things to stack up somewhere else, but wear boots cause they just crumble. if you get any that stay together, try to stand on it now. aint gonna work. if you fall over sideways, youre drinkin too much, but chances are youre gonna fall straight through it.

im not sayin this is scientific support of anything about 9/11 but fire sure is a fickle lady and will change a lot of things. concrete and steel are strong when they work together, but when things start expanding and contracting plus the added weight of that dang jet that just landed in Sharon's office, i cant say i trust it to stay standing.

Sharon was a b***h anyway.
 
Please research the temp of jet fuel burning (I have) and what the temp necessary to melt ALL THE STRUCTURAL GIRDERS is.

I will wait.

Please then explain how the girders would all collapse at the same time, or rather, how they would melt (a physical impossibility.... remember, you looked that up above) all at the same height and at the exact same rate, which is what is PHYSICALLY NECESSARY for them to collapse downward in a pancake.

Please explain to me how there is NO structural engineer ANYWHERE who will give you a mathematical explanation how collapse of upper storeys will pancake collapse the lower stories. Hint: it doesn't happen, which is why in a planned structural demolition, explosives have to be timed precisely, upper stories simultaneously,, then lower stories.

or..... you can continue to talk about stuff you have not bothered to look at, question or inform yourself.............

Like I said...., I don't know what happened, but I know what DID NOT happen, and it gives credence to some of the most unthinkable explanations.
 
Please research the temp of jet fuel burning (I have) and what the temp necessary to melt ALL THE STRUCTURAL GIRDERS is.

I will wait.

Please then explain how the girders would all collapse at the same time, or rather, how they would melt (a physical impossibility.... remember, you looked that up above) all at the same height and at the exact same rate, which is what is PHYSICALLY NECESSARY for them to collapse downward in a pancake.

Please explain to me how there is NO structural engineer ANYWHERE who will give you a mathematical explanation how collapse of upper storeys will pancake collapse the lower stories. Hint: it doesn't happen, which is why in a planned structural demolition, explosives have to be timed precisely, upper stories simultaneously,, then lower stories.

or..... you can continue to talk about stuff you have not bothered to look at, question or inform yourself.............

Like I said...., I don't know what happened, but I know what DID NOT happen, and it gives credence to some of the most unthinkable explanations.

they dont have to melt to lose structural integrity, and superheated concrete becomes brittle. are you going to start talking about the wall of Antarctica surrounding flat earth next?
 
they dont have to melt to lose structural integrity, and superheated concrete becomes brittle. are you going to start talking about the wall of Antarctica surrounding flat earth next?
Give me the temps for burning jet fuel and the temp needed to compromise steel girders. Screw the concrete, it is irrelevant.

No, I am not talking about Antarctica. I am busy now talking to people who have no idea what they are talking about with regard to temps and structural integrity of steel girders right now..... maybe later ;)
 
Let me make it easier for you. What is the difference between 1500 degrees and 2800 degrees Farenheit?
 
I think the thing that is constantly missed in the conversation about 9/11 and the Attacks on the WTC and the pentagon revolves around WHO did it, instead of the physics of the event

The important question is WHO.

Are we really to think that a man in a cave in Afghanistan set off the most sophisticated attacks ever to take place on American soil ?

Ill be very forward, i believe it was an Israeli/Zionist operation.... they stood much to gain at the destruction of middle eastern countries, and their fingerprints are all over it.
Two sources for serious inquiry into Israels involvement in come first from Ryan Dawson, and secondly from Christopher Bollyn
 
For the record, I'm just looking at this as a sensible person. I've got nothing profession to add to it. The only way for a building to fall straight down, or tip over, that I can think of is to take out the base. The foundation controls the fall stability of that structure. With that said, the floors above the impact did NOT fall straight down. They tipped. That compromise to the structure initiated the rest of the pancaking. The overwhelming majority of the building was under the impact area. So most of the building did pancake, but that's not how it started. It started to fall over. And if the bottom had held up to the stress, the top of that building would have actually just peeled off and fell over. But I'm pretty sure no one ever engineered those buildings to survive a partial collapse of the top. I'd be hard pressed to believe we can actually make that happen, period. The stresses of an action like that would be tremendous. It can happen occasionally, they do botch some demos. But to engineer to happen regularly would be a feat that I'm not sure we have the materials and knowledge to pull off. And to think that we can engineer a structure to take on multiple, tremendous stresses is to give people too much credit and chance too little credit. Most engineering is done to take on issues one at a time; a fire, and earthquake, a small plane crash. It's not hard to think that adding multiple stressors together magnifies the stress on the structure past the individual issues they were designed for. Large plane full of fuel, direct impact into the structure, partial collapse/tip of the top; who the hell thought that was going to happen when they built those buildings?

Check the still of the first tower to go down. It is way off plumb from the impact up before it disappears into the smoke. Which is the other problem. We actually cannot see where the top goes in the vids. Once the smoke and debris start to roll out it's just a jumbled mess of building coming down. And once the supported is removed from the part that tips, gravity takes over pulling it more downward.

There's a whole lot of smart people out there looking at it. But sometimes you can't think of everything. And sometimes you don't know everything to even think of. Unless planes start flying into building and they survive, and not the small planes most are designed to withstand, we will not know. And personally, I think I can live without a large subset of info on this subject.

Do I think Gov is capable of terrible things, history seems to prove it is. Capable of this? If that ever came to light I'm not sure the country could survive that. And my default position would be to hope no group of people was stupid enough to think this was a good idea. One of them, maybe. 4? That's getting to be a bridge too far.
 
.... all at the same height and at the exact same rate, which is what is PHYSICALLY NECESSARY for them to collapse downward in a pancake.

But you don't need them to do that, fall simultaneously at same height/rate. I think they did research on this re: building destroyed by earthquakes.
 
But you don't need them to do that, fall simultaneously at same height/rate. I think they did research on this re: building destroyed by earthquakes.

i feel like i did an experiment in grade school with a bowling ball and an orange, and they hit at the same time.
 
Give me the temps for burning jet fuel and the temp needed to compromise steel girders. Screw the concrete, it is irrelevant.

No, I am not talking about Antarctica. I am busy now talking to people who have no idea what they are talking about with regard to temps and structural integrity of steel girders right now..... maybe later ;)

"...structural steel begins to soften around 425°C and loses about half of its strength at 650°C"

"...jet fuel burns at 815°C..."


i looked up celsius because fahrenheit is stupid, and i use °C daily.
 
Not having camera shots from the Pentagon never bothered me. They are a military instillation, one of the most important in the nation. The fact that they don't toss around footage on the internet is encouraging.
And I get that. I would just think that there is more footage that could be released without compromising national security and lay to rest the plane strike.
Or just one frame that shows a plane?
 
I am a mechanical engineer (not structural) and I was there. I had a business trip to NJ a couple weeks after 9/11. We took a train over to NYC and went to the towers. At that time there was not yet any security fence other that some orange snow fence. I saw some of the big 3' box columns being uncovered. They had been cut at a 45 deg angle with what looked like the biggest cutting torch I had ever seen. Make of that what you will
 
Ever look at the passenger manifests from the planes?

Almost half of Flight AA77 that allegedly hit the Pentagon on 9-11-01 were passengers who were in classified positions dealing with the US Defense sector.





1. John D. Yamnicky Sr., 71, from Waldorf (Maryland), was on a business trip on American Airlines Flight 77. He was a retired naval aviator, who retired as Captain in 1979 when he joined Veridian Corp., a Virginia-based military contractor, where he worked on fighter aircraft and air-to-air missile programs.


2. William E. Caswell, born in Boston (Massachusetts) in 1947, was a third-generation physicist whose work at the Navy was so classified that his family knew very little about what he did each day. They don’t even know exactly why he was headed to Los Angeles on the doomed American Airlines Flight 77. "It was a trip he often took," said his mother, Jean Caswell. "We never knew what he was doing there because he couldn’t say. You just learn not to ask questions."


3. and 4. Wilson Falor "Bud" Flagg, 63, born in Millwood (Virginia), was a Rear Admiral in the US Navy and a pilot for American Airlines until his retirement. He was one of the three admirals censored by the US Navy in the context of the Tailhook conference scandal in 1991, relating to acts of sexual violence. His wife Darleen, also 63, died in the crash with him.

5. Stanley Hall, 68, was from Rancho Palos Verde (California). He was director of programme management for Raytheon Electronics Warfare. “He was our dean of electronic warfare”, explained one his colleagues at Raytheon, a Defense Department supplier. Hall had developed and fine-tuned antiradar technologies.


6. Bryan C. Jack, 48, from Alexandria (Virginia), was responsible for crunching America’s defense budget. He headed the Pentagon’s programming and fiscal economics division. He was on his way to California to teach a course at the Naval Postgraduate School. His colleagues said he was a brilliant mathematician and top budget analyst. He had worked at the Pentagon for 23 years.


7. Keller, Chandler ‘Chad’ Raymond. Chad was born in Manhattan Beach (California) on October 8, 1971. He was an eminent engineer specialized in propulsion technologies and project manager at Boeing Satellite Systems. [3]


8. Dong Lee, 48, from Leesburg (Virginia), worked for Boeing Co. as an engineer.


9. Ruben Ornedo, 39, from Los Angeles (California), was a propulsion engineer at the Boeing Comany in El Segundo (California).


10. Robert Penninger, 63, from Poway (California), worked as an electrical engineer for BAE systems, a Defense Department supplier.


11. and 12. Robert R. Ploger III, 59, from Annandale (Virginia), was a software architect at Lockheed Martin Corp., and his wife Zandra Cooper.


13. John Sammartino, 37, from Annandale (Virginia), was technical manager at XonTech Inc. in Arlington (Virginia), a research and development firm linked to the military sector and specialized in defense missiles and sensor technologies. It was bought in 2003 by Northrop Grumman, another company that produces for the military.


14. Leonard Taylor, 44, was technical group manager at XonTech Inc. He was born in Pasadena (California) and lived in Reston (Virginia).


15. Vicky Yancey, 43, from Springfield (Virginia), was going to attend a business meeting in Reno, but hadn’t planned to be on Flight AA77. Yancey, a former naval electronics technician, worked for the Vredenburg company, a Defense Department supplier.

16. Charles F. Burlingame III, 52, graduated from the U.S. Naval Academy in 1971 ; he was flight commander of AA Flight 77. Burlingame was a naval reserve officer and had even worked in the Pentagon wing that was struck by the plane


17. Barbara K. Olson, 45, was a conservative lawyer and commentator. She was known to television viewers as a self-assured, politically active journalist who represented the conservative mindset. In the Washington social and political landscape, she and her husband, Theodore B. Olson, formed a very influential couple. Theodore Olson was a high-profile lawyer who had successfully defended George W. Bush’s disputed Florida election before the Supreme Court. President Bush named Olson to the post of US Attorney General, entrusting him with the responsibility of shaping the Administration’s strategy vis-à-vis US courts.
The story of the telephone call is indeed very odd. Mr. Olson claimed that while he was in his office at the Department of Justice on Tuesday morning, he received a call from his wife allegedly made from a cell phone on board flight AA77 to tell him that the plane had been hijacked. This version was reprobated considering that it was impossible to use a cell phone from a plane. In a subsequent, modified version Barbara Olson was supposed to have used a passenger seat-phone. But as reported in another Voltaire Network article, there is no record of any such call.
Barbara Olson was one of Bill and Hillary Clinton’s most relentless critics, against whom she conducted merciless investigations. Among other things, she wrote a book titled Hell to Pay (Regnery 1999), in which she disparages Hillary Clinton, followed by another one titled Final Days (Regnery, 2001), which was published posthumously.

18. Karen Kincaid, 40, from Wahington D.C. A native of Iowa, she was a lawyer with the Washington firm of Wiley Rein & Fielding, specializing in communications legislation. She was on her way to Los Angeles to attend a conference on the wireless communications industry.


19. Steven ‘Jake’ Jacoby, 43, was a vice president and chief operating officer of a paging and wireless messaging service called Metrocall Inc., based in Alexandria (Virginia), which ranks as the second largest paging company in the United States. «





  • Three Raytheon employees were on flight AA11 that crashed into the North Tower of the World Trade Center. Raytheon is one of the principal defense suppliers, and a pillar of the Global Hawk remote control technologies, highly cherished by the Pentagon concerning remote controlled aircraft.


  • There are a number of disturbing features about Raytheon. A USA Today article published in October 2001 announced that in August 2001 Raytheon had executed, six times over, a perfectly smooth test landing in a New Mexico air base involving an unpiloted Boeing 727 belonging to Fedex.


  • The system emitted radio signals from the end of the runway which were transmitted to the plane. The ground electronic devices coordinated their location through GPS. No pilot could intervene during the maneuvr. This is a technology which was fully operational and readily available in August 2001, one month before the fateful attacks. Already at the beginning of 2001, a special plane linked to the Global Hawk program had crossed the Pacific Ocean, from the USA to Australia, with no one on board.


The people involved in these programs as well as other aerospace experts were officially declared dead on September 11, 2001.
 
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Recall the Interstate Tower fire in 1988, the middle floors were on fire, electrical problem was found to be the cause.
A structural engineer told Firefighters the building would collapse if the fire was not extinguished. She knew her stuff.
The building had no sprinkler system as it was grandfathered but was being retrofitted and was not operational.
The building had an unusual amount of sprayed on fireproofing because no sprinklers were required in 1973.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Interstate_Tower_fire
 
Both jets were fully fueled for takeoff, all that jet fuel leaking into the building upon impact, running down the elevator shafts,
floor drains, electrical raceways in the floors and into juction boxes and conduits.
The terrorists could have had one or more IED's on each plane or a simple thermite device, no way to know for sure.
 
Ever look at the passenger manifests from the planes?

Almost half of Flight AA77 that allegedly hit the Pentagon on 9-11-01 were passengers who were in classified positions dealing with the US Defense sector.





1. John D. Yamnicky Sr., 71, from Waldorf (Maryland), was on a business trip on American Airlines Flight 77. He was a retired naval aviator, who retired as Captain in 1979 when he joined Veridian Corp., a Virginia-based military contractor, where he worked on fighter aircraft and air-to-air missile programs.


2. William E. Caswell, born in Boston (Massachusetts) in 1947, was a third-generation physicist whose work at the Navy was so classified that his family knew very little about what he did each day. They don’t even know exactly why he was headed to Los Angeles on the doomed American Airlines Flight 77. "It was a trip he often took," said his mother, Jean Caswell. "We never knew what he was doing there because he couldn’t say. You just learn not to ask questions."


3. and 4. Wilson Falor "Bud" Flagg, 63, born in Millwood (Virginia), was a Rear Admiral in the US Navy and a pilot for American Airlines until his retirement. He was one of the three admirals censored by the US Navy in the context of the Tailhook conference scandal in 1991, relating to acts of sexual violence. His wife Darleen, also 63, died in the crash with him.

5. Stanley Hall, 68, was from Rancho Palos Verde (California). He was director of programme management for Raytheon Electronics Warfare. “He was our dean of electronic warfare”, explained one his colleagues at Raytheon, a Defense Department supplier. Hall had developed and fine-tuned antiradar technologies.


6. Bryan C. Jack, 48, from Alexandria (Virginia), was responsible for crunching America’s defense budget. He headed the Pentagon’s programming and fiscal economics division. He was on his way to California to teach a course at the Naval Postgraduate School. His colleagues said he was a brilliant mathematician and top budget analyst. He had worked at the Pentagon for 23 years.


7. Keller, Chandler ‘Chad’ Raymond. Chad was born in Manhattan Beach (California) on October 8, 1971. He was an eminent engineer specialized in propulsion technologies and project manager at Boeing Satellite Systems. [3]


8. Dong Lee, 48, from Leesburg (Virginia), worked for Boeing Co. as an engineer.


9. Ruben Ornedo, 39, from Los Angeles (California), was a propulsion engineer at the Boeing Comany in El Segundo (California).


10. Robert Penninger, 63, from Poway (California), worked as an electrical engineer for BAE systems, a Defense Department supplier.


11. and 12. Robert R. Ploger III, 59, from Annandale (Virginia), was a software architect at Lockheed Martin Corp., and his wife Zandra Cooper.


13. John Sammartino, 37, from Annandale (Virginia), was technical manager at XonTech Inc. in Arlington (Virginia), a research and development firm linked to the military sector and specialized in defense missiles and sensor technologies. It was bought in 2003 by Northrop Grumman, another company that produces for the military.


14. Leonard Taylor, 44, was technical group manager at XonTech Inc. He was born in Pasadena (California) and lived in Reston (Virginia).


15. Vicky Yancey, 43, from Springfield (Virginia), was going to attend a business meeting in Reno, but hadn’t planned to be on Flight AA77. Yancey, a former naval electronics technician, worked for the Vredenburg company, a Defense Department supplier.

16. Charles F. Burlingame III, 52, graduated from the U.S. Naval Academy in 1971 ; he was flight commander of AA Flight 77. Burlingame was a naval reserve officer and had even worked in the Pentagon wing that was struck by the plane


17. Barbara K. Olson, 45, was a conservative lawyer and commentator. She was known to television viewers as a self-assured, politically active journalist who represented the conservative mindset. In the Washington social and political landscape, she and her husband, Theodore B. Olson, formed a very influential couple. Theodore Olson was a high-profile lawyer who had successfully defended George W. Bush’s disputed Florida election before the Supreme Court. President Bush named Olson to the post of US Attorney General, entrusting him with the responsibility of shaping the Administration’s strategy vis-à-vis US courts.
The story of the telephone call is indeed very odd. Mr. Olson claimed that while he was in his office at the Department of Justice on Tuesday morning, he received a call from his wife allegedly made from a cell phone on board flight AA77 to tell him that the plane had been hijacked. This version was reprobated considering that it was impossible to use a cell phone from a plane. In a subsequent, modified version Barbara Olson was supposed to have used a passenger seat-phone. But as reported in another Voltaire Network article, there is no record of any such call.
Barbara Olson was one of Bill and Hillary Clinton’s most relentless critics, against whom she conducted merciless investigations. Among other things, she wrote a book titled Hell to Pay (Regnery 1999), in which she disparages Hillary Clinton, followed by another one titled Final Days (Regnery, 2001), which was published posthumously.

18. Karen Kincaid, 40, from Wahington D.C. A native of Iowa, she was a lawyer with the Washington firm of Wiley Rein & Fielding, specializing in communications legislation. She was on her way to Los Angeles to attend a conference on the wireless communications industry.


19. Steven ‘Jake’ Jacoby, 43, was a vice president and chief operating officer of a paging and wireless messaging service called Metrocall Inc., based in Alexandria (Virginia), which ranks as the second largest paging company in the United States. «





  • Three Raytheon employees were on flight AA11 that crashed into the North Tower of the World Trade Center. Raytheon is one of the principal defense suppliers, and a pillar of the Global Hawk remote control technologies, highly cherished by the Pentagon concerning remote controlled aircraft.


  • There are a number of disturbing features about Raytheon. A USA Today article published in October 2001 announced that in August 2001 Raytheon had executed, six times over, a perfectly smooth test landing in a New Mexico air base involving an unpiloted Boeing 727 belonging to Fedex.


  • The system emitted radio signals from the end of the runway which were transmitted to the plane. The ground electronic devices coordinated their location through GPS. No pilot could intervene during the maneuvr. This is a technology which was fully operational and readily available in August 2001, one month before the fateful attacks. Already at the beginning of 2001, a special plane linked to the Global Hawk program had crossed the Pacific Ocean, from the USA to Australia, with no one on board.


The people involved in these programs as well as other aerospace experts were officially declared dead on September 11, 2001.

Where did the flight originate? flights from San Diego have a high proportion of Naval and Marine Corps personnel. Flights originating from Tampa have a high proportion of Army and Special operations personnel. If it originated in somewhere random, maybe but if it originated in a place with a significant defense or contracting base than it's probably not an abnormal manifest.
 
Ever look at the passenger manifests from the planes?

Almost half of Flight AA77 that allegedly hit the Pentagon on 9-11-01 were passengers who were in classified positions dealing with the US Defense sector.





1. John D. Yamnicky Sr., 71, from Waldorf (Maryland), was on a business trip on American Airlines Flight 77. He was a retired naval aviator, who retired as Captain in 1979 when he joined Veridian Corp., a Virginia-based military contractor, where he worked on fighter aircraft and air-to-air missile programs.


2. William E. Caswell, born in Boston (Massachusetts) in 1947, was a third-generation physicist whose work at the Navy was so classified that his family knew very little about what he did each day. They don’t even know exactly why he was headed to Los Angeles on the doomed American Airlines Flight 77. "It was a trip he often took," said his mother, Jean Caswell. "We never knew what he was doing there because he couldn’t say. You just learn not to ask questions."


3. and 4. Wilson Falor "Bud" Flagg, 63, born in Millwood (Virginia), was a Rear Admiral in the US Navy and a pilot for American Airlines until his retirement. He was one of the three admirals censored by the US Navy in the context of the Tailhook conference scandal in 1991, relating to acts of sexual violence. His wife Darleen, also 63, died in the crash with him.

5. Stanley Hall, 68, was from Rancho Palos Verde (California). He was director of programme management for Raytheon Electronics Warfare. “He was our dean of electronic warfare”, explained one his colleagues at Raytheon, a Defense Department supplier. Hall had developed and fine-tuned antiradar technologies.


6. Bryan C. Jack, 48, from Alexandria (Virginia), was responsible for crunching America’s defense budget. He headed the Pentagon’s programming and fiscal economics division. He was on his way to California to teach a course at the Naval Postgraduate School. His colleagues said he was a brilliant mathematician and top budget analyst. He had worked at the Pentagon for 23 years.


7. Keller, Chandler ‘Chad’ Raymond. Chad was born in Manhattan Beach (California) on October 8, 1971. He was an eminent engineer specialized in propulsion technologies and project manager at Boeing Satellite Systems. [3]


8. Dong Lee, 48, from Leesburg (Virginia), worked for Boeing Co. as an engineer.


9. Ruben Ornedo, 39, from Los Angeles (California), was a propulsion engineer at the Boeing Comany in El Segundo (California).


10. Robert Penninger, 63, from Poway (California), worked as an electrical engineer for BAE systems, a Defense Department supplier.


11. and 12. Robert R. Ploger III, 59, from Annandale (Virginia), was a software architect at Lockheed Martin Corp., and his wife Zandra Cooper.


13. John Sammartino, 37, from Annandale (Virginia), was technical manager at XonTech Inc. in Arlington (Virginia), a research and development firm linked to the military sector and specialized in defense missiles and sensor technologies. It was bought in 2003 by Northrop Grumman, another company that produces for the military.


14. Leonard Taylor, 44, was technical group manager at XonTech Inc. He was born in Pasadena (California) and lived in Reston (Virginia).


15. Vicky Yancey, 43, from Springfield (Virginia), was going to attend a business meeting in Reno, but hadn’t planned to be on Flight AA77. Yancey, a former naval electronics technician, worked for the Vredenburg company, a Defense Department supplier.

16. Charles F. Burlingame III, 52, graduated from the U.S. Naval Academy in 1971 ; he was flight commander of AA Flight 77. Burlingame was a naval reserve officer and had even worked in the Pentagon wing that was struck by the plane


17. Barbara K. Olson, 45, was a conservative lawyer and commentator. She was known to television viewers as a self-assured, politically active journalist who represented the conservative mindset. In the Washington social and political landscape, she and her husband, Theodore B. Olson, formed a very influential couple. Theodore Olson was a high-profile lawyer who had successfully defended George W. Bush’s disputed Florida election before the Supreme Court. President Bush named Olson to the post of US Attorney General, entrusting him with the responsibility of shaping the Administration’s strategy vis-à-vis US courts.
The story of the telephone call is indeed very odd. Mr. Olson claimed that while he was in his office at the Department of Justice on Tuesday morning, he received a call from his wife allegedly made from a cell phone on board flight AA77 to tell him that the plane had been hijacked. This version was reprobated considering that it was impossible to use a cell phone from a plane. In a subsequent, modified version Barbara Olson was supposed to have used a passenger seat-phone. But as reported in another Voltaire Network article, there is no record of any such call.
Barbara Olson was one of Bill and Hillary Clinton’s most relentless critics, against whom she conducted merciless investigations. Among other things, she wrote a book titled Hell to Pay (Regnery 1999), in which she disparages Hillary Clinton, followed by another one titled Final Days (Regnery, 2001), which was published posthumously.

18. Karen Kincaid, 40, from Wahington D.C. A native of Iowa, she was a lawyer with the Washington firm of Wiley Rein & Fielding, specializing in communications legislation. She was on her way to Los Angeles to attend a conference on the wireless communications industry.


19. Steven ‘Jake’ Jacoby, 43, was a vice president and chief operating officer of a paging and wireless messaging service called Metrocall Inc., based in Alexandria (Virginia), which ranks as the second largest paging company in the United States. «





  • Three Raytheon employees were on flight AA11 that crashed into the North Tower of the World Trade Center. Raytheon is one of the principal defense suppliers, and a pillar of the Global Hawk remote control technologies, highly cherished by the Pentagon concerning remote controlled aircraft.


  • There are a number of disturbing features about Raytheon. A USA Today article published in October 2001 announced that in August 2001 Raytheon had executed, six times over, a perfectly smooth test landing in a New Mexico air base involving an unpiloted Boeing 727 belonging to Fedex.


  • The system emitted radio signals from the end of the runway which were transmitted to the plane. The ground electronic devices coordinated their location through GPS. No pilot could intervene during the maneuvr. This is a technology which was fully operational and readily available in August 2001, one month before the fateful attacks. Already at the beginning of 2001, a special plane linked to the Global Hawk program had crossed the Pacific Ocean, from the USA to Australia, with no one on board.


The people involved in these programs as well as other aerospace experts were officially declared dead on September 11, 2001.


As said above, it originated out of DC. But I noticed this at the memorial. They arrange the placement of the names to coordinate with whether they were on the plane or in the pentagon. I was surprised at the military members on the plane. Makes sense with the origination point, but just caught me off guard at the time.
 
Personally, I can see the Twins falling from a jet fuel/office furniture fires that went on for hours after suffering huge structural damage that was asymetrical.
As has been pointed out: a hot fire can weaken a beam and it will sag.

The focus here should not be on the Twins, but on WTC 7. Which is a completely different type of building that is more short "box" shape. It was not a tower.
It did not suffer a huge impact (and major structural damage) from a fuel laden jet plane. Nothing appeared to start sagging at the location of these fires inside. It uniformly pancaked into its own footprint. It's hard to imagine how some random fires throughout the structure all failed at the same instant across the whole structure.
It just doesn't make sense. Beams would have randomly started failing as heat at certain areas reached a high enough temp for structural steel to start to sag and fail.

It's easy to put a torch on a bar and bend it. That doesn't prove anything about the collapse of this building, imo.
We can take a broom handle, burn it in the middle and watch it lose it's integrity at that point and it will fail there. But I've never seen a fire cause a multi story wood building pancake into it's own footprint. Beams/columns start randomly failing where the heat is concentrated and it's starts pulling down those part of the structure as those areas start to fail, it seems.
Wood and steel totally different in the way they fail, of course, but just making a point.
 
TWA 800 is another event that has so many problems that even if the government wasn't hiding anything, and the aircraft did in fact explode because of hot fumes in the center wing tank, the government can only blame themselves for the conspiracy theories that followed and absolutely no one else. But that whole fiasco was a joke and folks in the CIA, FBI, and NTSB were definitely involved in a coverup.
 
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