‘Dixie Classic Fair’ bans even armed law enforcement

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Excerpt from Grass Roots North Carolina Alert:

Winston-Salem, at its Dixie Classic Fair, is illegally prohibiting not only concealed carry by lawful permit-holders, but even armed off-duty law enforcement officers.

The city falsely justifies its action by claiming that state law allows it to prohibit guns on city property, while neatly avoiding the fact that statewide firearm preemption only allows cities to ban guns “on local government buildings and their appurtenant premises” – not in whole fairgrounds.

Predictably, one Facebook page even describes an individual who went to the fair against his own better judgment, leaving his gun in his car, only to return and find his firearm stolen from his vehicle – something gun control advocates will also undoubtedly blame on gun owners.
 
I'm not sure the city can do that? The NFL tried the same thing in Denver and was shot down by state law that says off duty officers can carry anywhere in the state. I don't know if NC has the same law or not but I would guess that they probably do.
 
Meh - we are all supposed to be equal under the law.

Perhaps if cops don't get their little exemptions and carve outs and are subject to the same infringements and violations of their own Rights, they would stop being the first mfers in line advocating for the infringement and violation of ours.
 
Except for an off duty cop must still intervene if he sees a crime happening. So if things go sideways at the fair, they would be obligated to intervene, unlike a non cop who can just deass the area. I would at least want my sidearm in that case.
 
SPST said:
Except for an off duty cop must still intervene if he sees a crime happening. So if things go sideways at the fair, they would be obligated to intervene, unlike a non cop who can just deass the area. I would at least want my sidearm in that case.
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They have no legal obligation to protect anybody or anything, even if they are armed in uniform and on the job.
 
NKD said:
They have no legal obligation to protect anybody or anything, even if they are armed in uniform and on the job.
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Tell that to the guy in Florida who didn't engage in the parkland shooting.

I think you are confusing a duty to protect and a duty to intervene durning the process of a crime.
 
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This will be the first year that I probably wont be taking the family. The fair, year over year, has become more and more sketchy and I feel its just a matter of time before it experiences one of those flash mobs that tears through the place. This, coupled with the insane cost of everything and the moronic decision to change the name from "Dixie" because it hurt some peoples feelings.
 
Cowboy said:
Tell that to the guy in Florida who didn't engage in the parkland shooting.

I think you are confusing a duty to protect and a duty to intervene durning the process of a crime.
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He got thrown under the bus because it looks bad when you’re hiding while kids are getting killed.

The masses wanted a scapegoat, they got one

@NKD is spot on

A judge(US District judge Beth Bloom) tossed a lawsuit about the Parkland shooting which was filed by 15 students, saying that the students would have to have been in custody (ie inmates or mental patients) for a duty of the state to protect them be applicable.

Edit for article:

https://www.sun-sentinel.com/local/...vor-lawsuit-federal-judge-20181217-story.html
 
I think there is a value to them pissing of the LEO guys, because "some" of them think that they will still retain their firearms even after gun confiscation. I believe they will be the next gun confiscation, so that only the Feds have absolute control.

Everyone needs to help stop Gun control!
 
The Dixie Classic is held in such a nice section of Winston/Forsyth Cty.
I see no reason for anyone to feel the need for a gun around there.


I grew up in Clemmons in the 60's/70's so I know the area.
My friend in Kernersville will not go to any show/event at the Dixie fairgrounds.
 
Cowboy said:
Tell that to the guy in Florida who didn't engage in the parkland shooting.

I think you are confusing a duty to protect and a duty to intervene durning the process of a crime.
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Is he in prison? Been incarcerated? Broke any laws?


Now imagine he was there with no gun. He'd be in even less prison.
 
Cowboy said:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/abcnews.go.com/amp/US/sheriffs-deputy-arrested-connection-parkland-school-shooting/story?id=63487102
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I see the perjury charge sticking but based on the SCOTUS ruling from 2005 (Warren v DC) and Judge Bloom’s rationale for dismissing the lawsuits I see that also being a serious defense for him. Unless a) the local jury is not having it and b) there is some serious legal-speak difference in the two scenarios. But I still feel like he is bearing the brunt of the emotional outburst surrounding the shooting. I don’t mean to sound like I condone his actions, just playing devils advocate
 
11B CIB said:
I see the perjury charge sticking but based on the SCOTUS ruling from 2005 (Warren v DC) I see that also being a serious defense for him. Unless a) the local jury is not having it and b) there is some serious legal-speak difference in the two scenarios. But I still feel like he is bearing the brunt of the emotional outburst surrounding the shooting. I don’t mean to sound like I condone his actions, just playing devils advocate
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I'm pretty sure the charges are to make the feels better too. But I think there is a huge difference between a duty to protect and an officer seeing a crime in progress and not interjecting themselves when in their jurisdiction. In fact I would bet money they have policy on those actions. But I've never been a cop so I don't really know. You know @Average Joe probably has a pretty good grasp of policy on off duty officer involvement in stopping a crime.
 
Cowboy said:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/abcnews.go.com/amp/US/sheriffs-deputy-arrested-connection-parkland-school-shooting/story?id=63487102
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He made a reduced bail like the next day. So he is not in prison. And, it has not been proven in a court of law that any laws were broken.
He has no legal duty to protect you/me or your/my children. These charges are going to fail.

If your point is that people can be arrested and accused of crimes they didn't commit, or be scapegoated, then yes I completely agree with you.
For the record, I ain't defending this dude. He failed miserably. Just giving my opinion of the facts as I can see them.
 
SPST said:
I'm not sure the city can do that? The NFL tried the same thing in Denver and was shot down by state law that says off duty officers can carry anywhere in the state. I don't know if NC has the same law or not but I would guess that they probably do.
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Kinda, there's a fair number of "LE" allowed to carry basically anywhere not federally prohibited or in courtrooms (some excepted there as well), no carve out for local municipalities I'm aware of.

rintintindog68 said:
What LEO would sign-up or volunteer to work that event in uniform without a gun? In any event why even employee them at all? ....just hire some $10 HR security company.
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It's not off duty work, a very large part of the force is scheduled to work each day. And W-S usually requires that WSPD be hired off duty for non-city events or they won't approve permits and whatnot.
 
B00ger said:
decision to change the name from "Dixie" because it hurt some peoples feelings.
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Sweet Baby Jesus...this, to me, is worse than the gun ban.
Ikarus1 said:
Just pull all police presence from the fair, simple as that.
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THIS I like!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ronn47 said:
The Dixie Classic is held in such a nice section of Winston/Forsyth Cty.
I see no reason for anyone to feel the need for a gun around there.
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Just dickn wit me huh????
11B CIB said:
I don’t mean to sound like I condone his actions, just playing devils advocate
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Pound of flesh...somebody is gonna Pay!!
NKD said:
He has no legal duty to protect you/me or your/my children.
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I am amazed that even though they were in government custody [school] the school isn't responsible for their safety.
 
Yeah, their changing the name from Dixie made me puke, and I'm not even southern by heritage.

But then maybe the fact that I'm a transplant who wanted to hose off my damn yankee germs once I got here and actually become a Carolinian means I appreciate our heritage more than many who had the privilege to be born here. I guess it works that way for a lot of immigrants.
 
Obviously, there won't be any crime at a fair without guns so don't see what the cops are whining about /sarcasm.

I'm sure something stupid happened like that NRA event that had a couple ADs making us all look bad. I'm a bit surprised they singled out LEOs though since you know most (all?) will refuse to work the event.
 
fishgutzy said:
Never been to any "state fair."
I have an aversion to crowds and overpriced crap. More so when they arw co-located.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk
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But you're missing the fried BumbleTurd.

It's a sugar coated twinkie, stuck into a caramel coated ding-dong, then stuck in an ice cream cone, then stuck up the a$$ of a marshmellow easter bunny, then deep friend in cooking oil.

The key to the flavor is the oil, which has been the same oil used for the last 20 years.

And I think we can all agree the BumbleTurds just get even better every year.
 
B00ger said:
This will be the first year that I probably wont be taking the family. The fair, year over year, has become more and more sketchy and I feel its just a matter of time before it experiences one of those flash mobs that tears through the place. This, coupled with the insane cost of everything and the moronic decision to change the name from "Dixie" because it hurt some peoples feelings.
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Same here.

I won’t set foot in there again.
 
@Cowboy, I think you are referring to the Duty to Act. I'll try to give the readers digest version. The Duty to Act refers to when an individual LE/LE office/LE department enters into a verbal agreement or contract to protect them. SCOTUS has made rulings that LE "generally" does not have a Duty to Act as they can't be held liable for everyone's safety at one time when it is physically impossible to be with everyone at the same time (even despite being in close proximity, long as no promise of protection is given to a specific individual). However, the court has held individual LE/LE offices/ LE departments responsible that have entered into a verbal agreement/contract with a specific individual. One case I researched about 10 years ago (old age is keeping me from remembering the name) was a domestic situation. The female victim was abused and assaulted by her male partner, had many LE interactions involving domestics. She obtained a domestic violence protection order, the male subject was still stalking and assaulting the female, in a conversation with the chief of police, trying to calm the victim he promised the victim the police would protect her and not worry. Male killed the victim, and her family sued and won based upon the promise of protection. The court ruled the chief of police entered into a valid agreement/contract when he promised her the police would protect her and that the victim held a reasonable assumption everything would, in fact, be alright. As for LE in general contact with the public, there is no Duty to Act (something I think is wrong and can't imagine standing around and not doing anything). For myself and many others, I work with and train in LE feel the court may not say we have a legal duty to act, but we surely feel we have a moral and ethical duty to act when another is threatened with deadly force. As for the original post, I'm lost as what being a LE and being banned from attending a location carrying a concealed handgun while off duty has to do with anything. A state statute may say we can carry a concealed handgun off duty but the statutes also give guidelines FOR EVERYONE INCLUDING LE, that I and every other LE must follow like any other individual. I am assuming the City of Winston Salem owns the property and therefore has a legal standing to ban concealed carry by everyone if they choose. Sorry for the long post and hope it's not too much rambling, like for many of us its been a long day. Hope this helps.

Edited to add more info on the court ruling.
 
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Average Joe said:
@Cowboy, I think you are referring to the Duty to Act. I'll try to give the readers digest version. The Duty to Act refers to when an individual LE/LE office/LE department enters into a verbal agreement or contract to protect them. SCOTUS has made rulings that LE "generally" does not have a Duty to Act as they can't be held liable for everyone's safety at one time when it is physically impossible to be with everyone at the same time (even despite being in close proximity, long as no promise of protection is given to a specific individual). However, the court has held individual LE/LE offices/ LE departments responsible that have entered into a verbal agreement/contract with a specific individual. One case I researched about 10 years ago (old age is keeping me from remembering the name) was a domestic situation. The female victim was abused and assaulted by her male partner, had many LE interactions involving domestics. She obtained a domestic violence protection order, the male subject was still stalking and assaulting the female, in a conversation with the chief of police, trying to calm the victim he promised the victim the police would protect her and not worry. Male killed the victim, and her family sued and won based upon the promise of protection. The court ruled the chief of police entered into a valid agreement/contract when he promised her the police would protect her and that the victim held a reasonable assumption everything would, in fact, be alright. As for LE in general contact with the public, there is no Duty to Act (something I think is wrong and can't imagine standing around and not doing anything). For myself and many others, I work with and train in LE feel the court may not say we have a legal duty to act, but we surely feel we have a moral and ethical duty to act when another is threatened with deadly force. As for the original post, I'm lost as what being a LE and being banned from attending a location carrying a concealed handgun while off duty has to do with anything. A state statute may say we can carry a concealed handgun off duty but the statutes also give guidelines FOR EVERYONE INCLUDING LE, that I and every other LE must follow like any other individual. I am assuming the City of Winston Salem owns the property and therefore has a legal standing to ban concealed carry by everyone if they choose. Sorry for the long post and hope it's not too much rambling, like for many of us its been a long day. Hope this helps.

Edited to add more info on the court ruling.
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I don't think I've ever met a cop that wouldn't act if a crime was happening right in front of them. It may take a second to get into gear because they are shocked that someone would commit a crime in front of them though.

You just don't know how good it feels to catch someone red handed.
 
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Let me introduce you to one who really had no desire to capture a bad guy dripping red handed:

d3a6e2e8c63dbee3c432678f7476c65e.jpg



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
NKD said:
But you're missing the fried BumbleTurd.

It's a sugar coated twinkie, stuck into a caramel coated ding-dong, then stuck in an ice cream cone, then stuck up the a$$ of a marshmellow easter bunny, then deep friend in cooking oil.

The key to the flavor is the oil, which has been the same oil used for the last 20 years.

And I think we can all agree the BumbleTurds just get even better every year.
Click to expand...
Is this a real thing?

Asking for a friend...
 
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