Cop shoots woman through window (no, not the old one, the new one)

Unfortunate the woman did not call 911 to report a prowler in her yard. As for the door open, perhaps she was expecting a food delivery?
As for the open door??? It's HER DOOR. If she want's it open, that's fro HER to decide. Now, on top of all the BS out there, we have LEO's prowling around PRIVATE PROPERTY in the wee hours of the morn and firing at the their own perceived evil shadows!!
 
So he was trying to be stealthily by not announcing, yet he exhibited poor light discipline by shining his light around. He's lucky HE wasn't the one shot through the window. He should have announced, because that's his job. Yes, it may put him at greater risk, but again, that's his job.
 
Last edited:
Never call the police for a wellness check. If you're that concerned, fo check for yourself.

The well-being - indeed your loved one's or friend's very life may depend on not getting the police involved at all.
It's another example of outsourcing of responsibility.
 
We all see that this is bad policing. Hell, it's bad citizenship and absolutely no common sense. If you have a duty to inform a police officer of anything you are carrying; then, they DAMN WELL have a duty to inform you when they are on your property.

He was scared he was going to get shot? Then don't walk up on someone's house with a flashlight and looking in windows. I know the first thing that would come to my mind if I were to sneak around a neighbors house with a flashlight is that I would probably get shot! This makes no sense and is shear utter lunacy of the police officer.

An as the original Post stated, not the old one, the new one. Both are extremely similar! And what needs to happen before this gets exploded into a Racial Shooting, is to show the same thing that happened in Greenville, SC to an old white guy. It has nothing to do with Race... but you are seeing the Race-Hustlers and Pimps already there to explode this out.

This is a societal problem with community police being too damn scared to do the job that is required. That is why there used to be such an arduous testing process before you were ranked to get into an Academy. Evidently, those restrictions are lax to say the least.

If you do not have the courage to go up and ring the doorbell and ask if everything is okay.... Sit your ass down on Main Street ans wait for the parking meters to run out and write tickets.

I am neither Pro-Cop or Anti-Cop... I am just for Common Decency and Model Citizenship. Lately we are hearing Police Agencies use the term "civilian" or "civies"... bullshit... if you are not Active Military; you are a civilian regardless of your job.

Dumb Ass.... I can actually believe that the woman that shot the man in his apartment actually was confused but it was her mistake, she was in that man's castle and she committed a crime when she killed him. She will pay for it and I think she will find peace knowing that she will be paying for her mistake. I believe this to be the case as the brother of the man forgave her in court and hugged her.. that took real courage.

This cop can claim no such confusion. He should be held up as what not to do, because once our basic civil liberties are violated by whomever... we have already past the point of no return for our Republic.
 
Like someone posted earlier, when you are taught and train in war style tactics. You treat everyone you interact with like a enemy combatant. Give me back the old days, if you smarted off or acted a fool you might get smacked upside the head. The only hurt might be to your pride, rather have a sore face than to be shot.
 
Gun owner shoots up a place...people make broad sweeping judgements about all gun owners...we all cringe.

One cop (or two, counting the other one) acts negligently, and people on here make broad sweeping judgements on all cops.

Both responses are wrong.
 
Gun owner shoots up a place...people make broad sweeping judgements about all gun owners...we all cringe.

One cop (or two, counting the other one) acts negligently, and people on here make broad sweeping judgements on all cops.

Both responses are wrong.

The reactions aren’t because of one or two actions. Sure there are plenty of good cops, but google unlawful, negligent, unjustified (or use you own adjective) police shooting/killing and scroll through pages and pages of links.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: SPM
Even transcending from the foolish and the corrupt, this is the age-old problem of power and authority in the pursuit of good within a fallen world as put by Tolkien into the mouths of Gandalf and Galadriel:

"Yet the way of the Ring to my heart is by pity, pity for weakness, and the desire of strength to do good. The wish to wield it would be too great for my strength. I shall have such need of it. Great perils lay before me."

"And now at last it comes. You will give me the Ring freely. In the place of the Dark Lord, you will set up a Queen. And I shall not be dark, but beautiful and terrible as the Morning and the Night ... All shall love me and despair."
 
Maybe she was waiting on a friend or family member, maybe it was hot inside, maybe she burned some food and was airing out the house, maybe she just wanted some fresh air. What difference does it make if the door is open or not, strange at 2:30 in the morning, but it ain't worth the police snooping around just because they want to. I know the neighbor called, but at some point the police should tell the neighbor sorry, a open door doesn't warrant us going to snoop and see what might be wrong.

I think the expectation is that they will announce themselves at the door and actually check on the homeowner. Not act like it's the home invasion level on Call of Duty. The police should do what's reasonable, actually announce and check. Not mentally jump to the least likely possibility, violent home invasion. And the community should be able to expect them to be reasonable. It's a damn shame that we are moving in the direction of not only not being able to expect a reasonable response, but getting to the point where avoidance of LE interactions might be the best path forward.

And my wife read that there was a witness to the incident in the room with her that said they saw the flashlight and were looking out the window to see what was going on. And the families lawyer has already dropped the hammer on the pics of the gun. He said he didn't care if she had it in her hand, it was her home and that was perfectly legal. Sounds like the lawyer will not be taking any BS for the PD.
 
It's a damn shame that we are moving in the direction of not only not being able to expect a reasonable response, but getting to the point where avoidance of LE interactions might be the best path forward.
I think a lot of folks already do and want nothing to do with them. They’re no keeping the people safe, they’re not preventing crime. Most honest people’s interactions with them are either going to be when they act as the Crown’s highwaymen under the lie of safety or when they’ve been victimized and will get a lesson in how abjectly useless the legal system is.

Why do we have armed agents of the state going around falsely believing that they have abject authority of people. As I’ve said before go back to constitutional principles and it becomes pretty clear we were not meant to have armed agents roaming the streets and we didn’t until the mid 1800s. Justice was also a local function, not one of the State, and yes people had to get their hands dirty and take responsibility in terms of risk in apprehending the bad actors and doing the unpleasant tasks of punishing or executing them.

Look at what we have now. Is this what anyone other than the politicians and others who think they rule want? I would say no. It’s time to change tactics. We need town constabulary that have been vetted, trained, and trusted for people to go to when they need help. We don’t need armed soldiers going around “enforcing meaningless law”.

The fact that stupid jackbooted jackwagon thought he had the “authority” to enter someone’s property in that manner IS THE PROBLEM. Enough.
 
Here are a couple of media, online versions of the USA today newspaper, reports on the incident. Definitely a sign of the times when one questions what is and how things are reported. Anyway, the first link (here) has a quote that struck me as at least slightly significant:
"The murder of this innocent woman represents a breaking point," Merritt said. "Atatiana Jefferson should be enjoying her family today. A clear message has been sent – we are no longer safe in our own homes." Emphasis mine. Making people, or whole communities feel that they are not safe in their own homes seems to me to be a dangerous, slippery slope.
 
  • Like
Reactions: SPM
IMHO, the shift from peace officer to COD/SWAT uniforms, gear & tactics being employed by the police for so many citizen encounters is directly attributable to the Federal government giving militaristic gear and funding for militaristic training and uniforms. GovCo had no business escalating the fight in that manner - unless the end goal was to establish an occupation.
 
I have been 'out of the field' for a bit, but before I started pimping myself out for more money, 'we' (LE/fire/EMS) would critically think through welfare checks. I have been on maybe 50, plus/minus. In every single one (every. Single. One) the cop would do a walk-around, look in windows. If there was no response they'd call family to come with a key. If you could see someone inside who could not come to the door, we and/or fire would be called, and we decided how to enter. Of course the increased 'I've-fallen-and-can't-get-up' buttons have mitigated it quite a bit. I don't recall any where there was a door open. @SPM a lot of our calls were from family members out of state. I would say in the vast majority no one was home.
 
Training needs to change. I'm held accountable for every round fired. Police are not above the law and should be held to a higher level. The officer made himself the threat.

CD

It's sad when the military gets more and better de-escalation and proportional response training than the LE community.
 
These danged police are scared of their shadows. These innocent lives lost were because of the Police being , without cause, afraid for their lives. Why do they choose this career path if they are always afraid?

Jurisdictions can have a policy in place that officers can only fire once fired upon. I know of at least three innocent lives this policy could have saved. If the LEOs can't live with that policy then find a different career.
 
Last edited:
These danged police are scared of their shadows. These innocent lives lost were because of the Police being , without cause, afraid for their lives. Why do they choose this career path if they are always afraid?

Jurisdictions can have a policy in place that officers can only fire once fired upon. I know of at least three innocent lives this policy could have saved. If the LEOs can't live with that policy then find a different career.
Why do you carry a gun? what are you a'skeert of?

Your statement makes just as much sense...
 
We all see that this is bad policing. Hell, it's bad citizenship and absolutely no common sense. If you have a duty to inform a police officer of anything you are carrying; then, they DAMN WELL have a duty to inform you when they are on your property.

He was scared he was going to get shot? Then don't walk up on someone's house with a flashlight and looking in windows. I know the first thing that would come to my mind if I were to sneak around a neighbors house with a flashlight is that I would probably get shot! This makes no sense and is shear utter lunacy of the police officer.

An as the original Post stated, not the old one, the new one. Both are extremely similar! And what needs to happen before this gets exploded into a Racial Shooting, is to show the same thing that happened in Greenville, SC to an old white guy. It has nothing to do with Race... but you are seeing the Race-Hustlers and Pimps already there to explode this out.

This is a societal problem with community police being too damn scared to do the job that is required. That is why there used to be such an arduous testing process before you were ranked to get into an Academy. Evidently, those restrictions are lax to say the least.

If you do not have the courage to go up and ring the doorbell and ask if everything is okay.... Sit your ass down on Main Street ans wait for the parking meters to run out and write tickets.

I am neither Pro-Cop or Anti-Cop... I am just for Common Decency and Model Citizenship. Lately we are hearing Police Agencies use the term "civilian" or "civies"... bullshit... if you are not Active Military; you are a civilian regardless of your job.

Dumb Ass.... I can actually believe that the woman that shot the man in his apartment actually was confused but it was her mistake, she was in that man's castle and she committed a crime when she killed him. She will pay for it and I think she will find peace knowing that she will be paying for her mistake. I believe this to be the case as the brother of the man forgave her in court and hugged her.. that took real courage.

This cop can claim no such confusion. He should be held up as what not to do, because once our basic civil liberties are violated by whomever... we have already past the point of no return for our Republic.
You are so correct. If you are not active military then you are a civilian as well when an officer. Your first priority is to de-escalate the situation. Outfitting law enforcement like military was a bad mistake.
Like someone posted earlier, when you are taught and train in war style tactics. You treat everyone you interact with like a enemy combatant. Give me back the old days, if you smarted off or acted a fool you might get smacked upside the head. The only hurt might be to your pride, rather have a sore face than to be shot.
For many years sheriffs have been sending swat teams to train at military bases. Not with the military but instructed on their property. They were to Fing scared to join the real heroes so they became Barney Fife with more than one bullet. Maybe it’s time for LEO to just get one bullet and keep it in their shirt pocket. Andy was able to recognize a scared officer was a threat to the town.
IMHO, the shift from peace officer to COD/SWAT uniforms, gear & tactics being employed by the police for so many citizen encounters is directly attributable to the Federal government giving militaristic gear and funding for militaristic training and uniforms. GovCo had no business escalating the fight in that manner - unless the end goal was to establish an occupation.
There is little doubt about this.
 
I have been 'out of the field' for a bit, but before I started pimping myself out for more money, 'we' (LE/fire/EMS) would critically think through welfare checks. I have been on maybe 50, plus/minus. In every single one (every. Single. One) the cop would do a walk-around, look in windows. If there was no response they'd call family to come with a key. If you could see someone inside who could not come to the door, and/or fire would be called, and we decided how to enter. Of course the increased 'I've-fallen-and-can't-get-up' buttons have mitigated it quite a bit. I don't recall any where there was a door open. @SPM a lot of our calls were from family members out of state. I would say in the vast majority no one was home.
Chuckman,

Would you first knock on the door and announce yourself or walk around outside and peek into windows first?

CD
 
For the love of God, any neighbors of mine I beg you....Do Not Call The Police to come check my damned welfare, I don't care how out of the ordinary something seems at my house. Either come over and check or leave me the hell alone and I'll do the same.

You know oddly enough I don't think we'll have this problem. My neighbor to one side keeps to his self, on the other are Mexicans and they'll either come check or leave me alone. Across the street are all yankees but from parts of the north where the look out for one another. Except that one asshat with the fireworks.

Not long ago I got a call from my neighbor at about 8 pm on a Saturday saying a woman was parked on the road outside my house. I had my blinds drawn so I didn't see them. He came out and I met him outside. I walked over to see if they needed some help. They said no they were waiting for someone. I said well I have a photo of your license plate now, and this is a highway so you might want to move on and wait somewhere else. Their eyes got really big and they took off lol.
 
I said well I have a photo of your license plate now, and this is a highway so you might want to move on and wait somewhere else. Their eyes got really big and they took off lol.
Are you thinking drug deal? Prostitution? Both? Affair? Or something else?
 
No they can't. Just like no one can tell you you have to wait to be shot at before defending yourself.

That statement is not intended as a defense of this case.

Tell that to the Military .
And how could Border Patrol Agents even be ordered to not "Return Fire" on the caravan that threatened to cross our border in 2018?
EVEN when it is allowed in their policy manual. https://www.cbp.gov/sites/default/files/documents/UseofForcePolicyHandbook.pdf
https://defensemaven.io/bluelivesma...fired-upon-by-caravan-iINcUK1PFUSv3wEiOKrrNg/
Oh yes, the Blue Lives Matter group really got pissed at this order.
I know what NCGS 15A-401(d)(2) says about the use of deadly force and when allowed by law, but individual departments can have a return fire policy.
This law authorizes the use of deadly force, not making it mandatory to use deadly force.
Any LEO agency can be ordered, or by policy, to hold fire until fired upon, and if they don't agree then they can move along.
And there is even some conversations going around about changing some of the language in this law. And not just in NC.
 
Why do you carry a gun? what are you a'skeert of?

Your statement makes just as much sense...
I ain't skeered of anything.
I just know better than to show up at a gunfight with a knife.
 
The one thing that gets me is most people of reasonable thinking are going to use tools to aid their purpose and with the technology available to LE today why is a officer running around a house in the dark using a flashlight. If there is a perceived threat use or call in those with thermal imaging and whatever tools needed before becoming a threat to a person's wellbeing themselves. This incident should at some point or another bring to light the unwillingness of LE command to change their tactics and they have become the actual threat to the community rather than the officers.
 
Fort Worth police officer accused of shooting and killing black woman has resigned, chief says

https://www.foxnews.com/us/fort-worth-police-officer-in-shooting-investigation


From that link:
Merritt said Monday that the incident shows that the Fort Worth Police Department is in "need of serious systematic reform.

"We are asking that the federal government comes in, the Department of Justice comes in and takes a heavy, conscious look at the policies and procedures that allowed something like this tragedy to happen," he told reporters Monday.

Is this going to be Ferguson 2.0?
 
Last edited:
Any LEO agency can be ordered, or by policy, to hold fire until fired upon
Any officer who is injured because they had to wait to be shot before defending themselves will end up owning the town. No department will open themselves up to that kind of liability.
And there is even some conversations going around about changing some of the language in this law
And we covered this in a thread. The consensus was, how stupid could some one be.
 
Any officer who is injured because they had to wait to be shot before defending themselves will end up owning the town. No department will open themselves up to that kind of liability.
Reminds me of how Massad Ayoob would say that if you wait to see their gun then you’re going to get to see what comes out of it.

Once again, what is pissing people off is the “because cop” standard,
 
Agree not a race issue but a stupidity issue.

Some of what I’m about to say is conjecture and some is not. But it is a race issue, just not the way they will portray it. But one that really needs to be discussed.

Cops are universally disliked by the black community. Any time they go into low income areas they run the risk of getting mobbed, especially when trying to make an arrest.

I would bet dimes to donuts that this officer was keyed higher than usual because of the neighborhood he was being sent into. He probably would have shot whoever it was, regardless of their race because he was in, what I assume, was a predominantly black neighborhood.

I’ve said this before. We have a symptomatic issue here and the police are just as at fault as the low income blacks. The police routinely violate the rights of low income people regardless of race because they don’t have much legal recourse historically. They, in turn, despise the police and make their jobs more difficult at best and dangerous at worst.

It’s like the old joke about the Palestinians throwing rocks at the Israelis, who blow up their houses in retaliation....which just makes more rocks for them to throw.

We’re stuck in a cycle that just continues to get worse and I don’t see an end in sight.
 
We’re stuck in a cycle that just continues to get worse and I don’t see an end in sight.

It wouldn't take much to argue that it won't get better, and those in charge don't actually want it to get better. The more violence, division and general distrust we have for each other, the more crap they can get away with trying to "fix" things. If you're too busy cowering in your home hoping not to be killed by criminals and too afraid to call for 'help' thinking that might get you killed too, you've got pressing issues that keep you from even thinking about what's being done to you systemically by those that control the .gov.

That's the push to disarm, to keep you helpless and afraid so you don't have a lot of options.
 
Dad was a lawman for 48 years, 20 of those as High Sheriff.
Small town, rural country Sheriff.

One time he got called to a fight at a dive bar out in the middle of nowhere. Drunk inside the bar starts shooting at him with a rifle. Dad never took a shot at him, and within 30 minutes had talked the guy into coming out and giving it up.
Another time, he got called to a domestic. Drunk son and father were fighting it out. There were already 4 deputy's and several State Police on the scene since the son was shooting at them from inside the house, smartly..all were taking cover behind their cars.
Dad arrives and within a few minutes walks up to the door, the whole time talking to the son. The son had a 38 special leveled at Dad's chest the whole time. Dad manages to get face to face with the boy, and during a moment when the boy looked away, Dad grabs the revolver from his hand.
But not before the kid gets a shot off and hits Dad in the chest.
The bullet hits Dad's badge and ricochets into his shoulder. At that point the kid had about 8 officers jump on him, but they never shot him.

Dad has dozens of stories like this, and in 48 years...never shot anyone.
Now you tell me...after 48 years of wearing the badge, don't you think that there were many times when Dad would have been absolutely in the right to cap some a--hole who had it coming?

I can't recall all the times I heard my Dad tell his deputies to keep everything and everybody calm.
And it worked.

Now-a-days, while the police apologist's go on & on about how their training is better than it ever has been, the standard method has become to storm the situation screaming and yelling confusing orders while brandishing hardware with the hammer pulled back and a shaky finger on the trigger.
Wtf? This is considered 'better training'? Swarming in screaming like a bunch of Apache's ramping everything up to eleven on a scale of ten?

How did it come to this? The Police own this crap. They got sold on the citizenry being the enemy and needing to adopt militaristic methods and attitudes.
There are many lawmen who, although get trained in these methods, realize that most of the time it's completely unnecessary and act accordingly.
And God love em for it.

Whats it gonna take to get back to keep everything and everybody calm?
The police and the citizens are just the pawns in this game. The kings and queens in the administrations that insist on using these horrendous methods are the ones who need to be taken to the courthouse square and hung till dead.

After reading this, here's the first thing I thought of-




.
 
Back
Top Bottom