Cop shoots woman through window (no, not the old one, the new one)

I'm not sure we can fix this. The LEO community is just like the military, we are a mirror of society. That's why we laugh at the "jack-booted thugs" comments and the "king's men" stuff. We're your neighbors, we sit in church by you, we eat at the same restaurants, raise our kids next to yours, etc... we're not KGB. We're the same as you, just with a different calling. And, that's exactly what it is, a calling. That's why you see so many young cops causing problems with their attitudes or rude responses, they're just not meant to be there. They should have been weeded out earlier, but as a "public servant" our interactions are exactly that, public. We all know preachers or car mechanics who have absolutely no business in the job they have, but they get by for years because their interactions aren't with the general public, just a select few customers.

Again, I'm not sure we can fix this as a whole. We're madder than you at the politicians and the stupid judges, because we have to enforce what they pass. We execute a large amount of "discretion", however. For example, I've slung a lot of car keys in bushes if I run up on a parked DUI without any injuries. Other officers and most troopers live for that stuff. Not me. 2 drinks, call somebody or Uber... If you've run your car up a telephone pole or hurt somebody, you've exceeded my discretion and I have to take action. If you've punched your wife or kids, or vice versa; you're riding with me. You've exceeded my discretion. I've made kids throw out joints or roaches hundreds of times, but not charged them. But, if I catch you slinging packaged rocks or crystal; you're riding with me. I'm good with you venting your anger and letting it all air out, until there's kids in the area or you try to put your hands on them or someone else. Rage on, yell and scream how unfair life is and how your baby-mommy mistreats you; we'll listen. Hopefully, once you've sobered up you'll call or tell me about the real problems in your area; that's what I'm really here for. I've bought kids clothes when it was cold, I've brought people food, I've held peoples hands when they're sick or shot or run-over, etc... yes, it's a calling and we fight daily against the forces in our society who just want to burn it down, even if they're our elected bosses.

As far as the "militarized police " goes, I agree with most of the comments I see on here. But, having a patrol carbine in the trunk doesn't make you a "SWAT guy". A lot of the SWAT-type training with military units is just because they have the resources ( houses, vehicles, etc...) and it does go very close to what you will get on a SWAT callout. I'm former mil HRT, btw. And, I've served on local and state SRTs. I'm telling you the training doesn't usually get offered to the patrol guys, they don't need it and typically don't want it. As far as the 10-22 program ( offering surplus mil equipment to local departments) goes, I've never seen it to really have an impact on day-to-day operations. The MRAPs are a joke at a local PD, they're not going to spend the money to maintain them anyway; but they look cool for a moment.

I do think we should go back to wearing regular polyester uniforms with a proper appearance; I don't care for the fatigue look unless you've got a specialized unit that requires it for an event, not everyday wear. It just looks wrong.

I hope I've answered more questions than I've raised. Yes, I'm a 25 year guy and a supervisor. I cringe when the "millennials" get supervisor status just like you do.
So why does it take so long to get rid of the bad cops? The union? The thin blue line? I'm not trying to be combative. That mantra gets repeated all of the time, but I've had many more bad experiences with Leo's than good.
 
And to the same cop-haters, (back on thread now) please remember this case when you claim "blue covers up for blue" in your next blind rage/ rant. Cops want the bad cops put away even more than you do. We're not covering up crap for them. I

TOTAL AND COMPLETE BULL CRAP STATEMENT!!

In just about all the video you see of cops acting bad, there were other cops there that did nothing to stop it.

You remember back about 2 years ago, when an NC cop told an attorney he couldn't video them, that a new law was passed. We all know it was total bullcrap, but the other cops didn't do anything to correct the bad cop. That makes them all bad cops.
 
In just about all the video you see of cops acting bad, there were other cops there that did nothing to stop it.
I’m going to hazard a guess that there is a code, probably unspoken about presenting a unified front. Much like parents dealing with kids or command officers in the military. Whether the result is beneficial or detrimental overall, I can’t say.
 
I’m going to hazard a guess that there is a code, probably unspoken about presenting a unified front. Much like parents dealing with kids or command officers in the military. Whether the result is beneficial or detrimental overall, I can’t say.
No one with half a brain is going to call out any co-worker in front of the customers. No matter what field you're in. Behind the scenes though...
 
TOTAL AND COMPLETE BULL CRAP STATEMENT!!

In just about all the video you see of cops acting bad, there were other cops there that did nothing to stop it.

I think this is the first time I have ever agreed with anything @AR10ShooterinNC ever said. I'm not in the little cop haters club we have on here, but it does seem that every time you see a video of an officer doing something bad, there's several more either helping or watching it happen.
 
Well, yes and no. You don't have to give anyone an 'out.' You do have to show them that the alternative of non-compliance is worse (and maybe that's what you mean and I misunderstood. I do that sometimes). Proportional response is sorely lacking in LE curriculum; when/if they get it, they don't consistently train for it. Say what you will about the highway patrol (I have my own opinions about the King's Revenue Service), they do train like this, a lot.

We are real close. I worked with kids. I couldn’t shoot them. Lol. Out does not mean you get away with it. It’s just another option besides it getting violent.

Men tend to need to save face. Options help them save face. So does fighting. At the end of the power struggle that’s your two options; an out to save face or a fight.


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We are real close. I worked with kids. I couldn’t shoot them. Lol. Out does not mean you get away with it. It’s just another option besides it getting violent.

Men tend to need to save face. Options help them save face. So does fighting. At the end of the power struggle that’s your two options; an out to save face or a fight.


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When you are a criminal who gets caught there is no saving face. There is only how you want it to happen hard or easy. Easy you get treated with respect... usually. This attitude that one could simply opt out of an arrest boggles my mind. That's Snowflake 101.
 
When you are a criminal who gets caught there is no saving face. There is only how you want it to happen hard or easy. Easy you get treated with respect... usually. This attitude that one could simply opt out of an arrest boggles my mind. That's Snowflake 101.

Way off base. Did I say you avoid consequences? To use your phrase, the hard way isn’t always the only way.

And in a bad power struggle the authority figure actually stands in the way of the easy way, usually without knowing it.

These generally start when someone in authority gives a bad command and stands to it regardless of whether it makes sense. Once that command is refused the power struggle starts and escalates. It will continue to escalate until one of usually three things happen. The person complies. The person fights. Or the person in authority sees it coming, recognizes it, and finds an alternative solution.

Are you suggesting there is no place in LE for deescalation and alternative techniques for getting suspects to comply?

Bear in mind the suspect has a say too. But when the suspect chooses violence in the face of better options it is clear that the officer did what they could. Which works out better for the officers. The opposite is that the officer drives the escalation with bad options and they can suffer the consequences of that. I would say a lot of interactions with poor outcomes stem from these power struggles. I had to learn it the hard way and taught the process to our counselors. The idea that position and authority are what drive positive outcomes is a disastrous plan.

It’s not an absolute to work. But I think it’s sorely missing with a lot of LE.


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So why does it take so long to get rid of the bad cops? The union? The thin blue line? I'm not trying to be combative. That mantra gets repeated all of the time, but I've had many more bad experiences with Leo's than good.
Yes, the same lawyers who become politicians and judges make it harder to get rid of problem employees. You’ve got to have enough ink. That’s the reality everyone lives in now. If it’s a criminal violation, they have the rights as all.
Unions ? Thankfully, not so much in the South.


.
 
TOTAL AND COMPLETE BULL CRAP STATEMENT!!

In just about all the video you see of cops acting bad, there were other cops there that did nothing to stop it.

You remember back about 2 years ago, when an NC cop told an attorney he couldn't video them, that a new law was passed. We all know it was total bullcrap, but the other cops didn't do anything to correct the bad cop. That makes them all bad cops.
I can’t speak to the .00001 percent of the videos the public sees, because those are the really bad ones where everyone knows it was wrong. If we were covering it up, the video wouldn’t have been left unerased and later released..
Like anything else, the reaction time to realize something bad is happening frequently means it’s already over by the time you realize it’s happening. Example: a friend of mine was called to transport a subject after a real nasty fight between him and several officers. The transport officer arrived on scene to find the guy already cuffed. His job was to take the guy to the ER and then booking. As he’s walking the guy to the car, somebody takes a cheap shot and punches the suspect. My buddy did the right thing; separating them and calling a supervisor and documenting the incident. His reaction time was too slow to prevent the incident and he got time off.

Also, critical incidents are extremely chaotic, you’re concentrating on what you’re doing, not so much on what others on your team are doing. Don’t believe me ? Take witness statements after a shooting or a real bad fight; you’ll have 5 people with 5 totally different recollections of what happened.

Or, the officer was just having a bad day and not paying enough attention to others on scene doing stupid things. We have bad days and family stuff, too.

As far as lying to some attorney about some law being passed, maybe the guy was stupid or an idiot who believed that was true. We have to try and keep up with constantly changing laws and legal precedents everyday. The time to correct that would have been after the stop. Why detain the motorist to correct/question the officer ? Yes, we think of things like that. Remember, from the time we hit the blue lights until you pull safely back into traffic, we are legally liable for your physical safety.

We do the best we can. You either believe me or not, your call. Not a bull crap statement.

I’m sorry so many of you claim to have had a bad encounter with LEO.
 
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My wife and I were talking about this tonight. It seems that a lot of cops deal with people with a really skeptical attitude. I get that you're dealing with the south end of a north bound society a lot. But you also have to try and establish what kind of interaction you are in and tailor your attitude accordingly. Yes, you need to be able to go 0-100 in a flash if your life depends on it. But if you go into a situation at 100 that is really a 0 someone is very likely to get hurt or killed. I think that's part of what happened here. They guy completely misread the situation and acted in a manner that was not fit for this situation. And the homeowner is dead because of that. Poor attitude, poor tactics, poor response.

On an only minor related note, when I dealt with the PD about my accident I could tell that the Supervisor did not believe anything I was saying about what happened or how serious it could have been. Until I produced a video of what happened. Her entire demeanor towards me changed. Those preconceived notions can cause problems.

I could not agree more with this.
 
A man will, and I have, many a time.

I had two Hickory PD police tell me what a stupid dyke their coworker was while she tossed my car. She called them in for backup while she tossed it because my wife (girlfriend at the time) and I looked pretty scary that day on our way to Bed, Bath, and Beyond. Justified by saying she saw a spent shotgun slug in one of the open console compartments of my car. The two she called in for backup stood there and small talked with me, made sure to let me know what a dumbass she was, and said there was a reason she sat on the side of 321 all day.
 
It depends on which neighborhoods you are talking about when saying that there is a "war" on police. In the neighborhoods that most people live in there isn't anything close to that. In gang infested neighborhoods, there is definitely a psuedo "war" happening.


You've never been in a war zone, have you?

No one with half a brain is going to call out any co-worker in front of the customers. No matter what field you're in. Behind the scenes though...

This is absolutely one of the most retarded things I have ever heard. The entire Nuclear Industry's risk model is founded on everyone having a questioning attitude and speaking up when something is not or doesn't seem right, from the newest employee all the way up to the Site Vice President.

You are expected to challenge and coach people on not adhering to the standards, whether safety related or not, and you face consequences if you do not..... because in any group of people doing almost any task, there is usually someone with a perspective or price of information upon which success or failure of the team depends, and one person not speaking up can lead the entire team to failure.

As always, you really don't know what you're talking about.

I can’t speak to the .00001 percent of the videos the public sees, because those are the really bad ones where everyone knows it was wrong. If we were covering it up, the video wouldn’t have been left unerased and later released..
Like anything else, the reaction time to realize something bad is happening frequently means it’s already over by the time you realize it’s happening. Example: a friend of mine was called to transport a subject after a real nasty fight between him and several officers. The transport officer arrived on scene to find the guy already cuffed. His job was to take the guy to the ER and then booking. As he’s walking the guy to the car, somebody takes a cheap shot and punches the suspect. My buddy did the right thing; separating them and calling a supervisor and documenting the incident. His reaction time was too slow to prevent the incident and he got time off.

Also, critical incidents are extremely chaotic, you’re concentrating on what you’re doing, not so much on what others on your team are doing. Don’t believe me ? Take witness statements after a shooting or a real bad fight; you’ll have 5 people with 5 totally different recollections of what happened.

Or, the officer was just having a bad day and not paying enough attention to others on scene doing stupid things. We have bad days and family stuff, too.

As far as lying to some attorney about some law being passed, maybe the guy was stupid or an idiot who believed that was true. We have to try and keep up with constantly changing laws and legal precedents everyday. The time to correct that would have been after the stop. Why detain the motorist to correct/question the officer ? Yes, we think of things like that. Remember, from the time we hit the blue lights until you pull safely back into traffic, we are legally liable for your physical safety.

We do the best we can. You either believe me or not, your call. Not a bull crap statement.

I’m sorry so many of you claim to have had a bad encounter with LEO.

What if I told you perhaps you are the outlier, the rare variety of LE? Not representative of the buzz cut, roided out authority freak that enforces the scribblings of politicians with malice?
 
How many gun deaths before you advocate abolishing the 2nd amendment?
So you are saying that the kill to call call ratio of people we pay to protect us is acceptable?
This thread is not about the 2nd, stop deflecting.
 
I had two Hickory PD police tell me what a stupid dyke their coworker was while she tossed my car. She called them in for backup while she tossed it because my wife (girlfriend at the time) and I looked pretty scary that day on our way to Bed, Bath, and Beyond. Justified by saying she saw a spent shotgun slug in one of the open console compartments of my car. The two she called in for backup stood there and small talked with me, made sure to let me know what a dumbass she was, and said there was a reason she sat on the side of 321 all day.
So they thought it was ok for her to violate your rights and didn't call her out on it?
 
Yes, the same lawyers who become politicians and judges make it harder to get rid of problem employees. You’ve got to have enough ink. That’s the reality everyone lives in now. If it’s a criminal violation, they have the rights as all.
Unions ? Thankfully, not so much in the South.


.
There are certain things that people get fired for in every occupation. One of them is violence that is uncalled for. A cop who is hurting a helpless suspect that is in there custody just gets a written report in your post below. In any other occupation that is an immediate firing unless there are badly written guidelines or an overpowered union.
 
I can’t speak to the .00001 percent of the videos the public sees, because those are the really bad ones where everyone knows it was wrong. If we were covering it up, the video wouldn’t have been left unerased and later released..
Like anything else, the reaction time to realize something bad is happening frequently means it’s already over by the time you realize it’s happening. Example: a friend of mine was called to transport a subject after a real nasty fight between him and several officers. The transport officer arrived on scene to find the guy already cuffed. His job was to take the guy to the ER and then booking. As he’s walking the guy to the car, somebody takes a cheap shot and punches the suspect. My buddy did the right thing; separating them and calling a supervisor and documenting the incident. His reaction time was too slow to prevent the incident and he got time off.

Also, critical incidents are extremely chaotic, you’re concentrating on what you’re doing, not so much on what others on your team are doing. Don’t believe me ? Take witness statements after a shooting or a real bad fight; you’ll have 5 people with 5 totally different recollections of what happened.

Or, the officer was just having a bad day and not paying enough attention to others on scene doing stupid things. We have bad days and family stuff, too.

As far as lying to some attorney about some law being passed, maybe the guy was stupid or an idiot who believed that was true. We have to try and keep up with constantly changing laws and legal precedents everyday. The time to correct that would have been after the stop. Why detain the motorist to correct/question the officer ? Yes, we think of things like that. Remember, from the time we hit the blue lights until you pull safely back into traffic, we are legally liable for your physical safety.

We do the best we can. You either believe me or not, your call. Not a bull crap statement.

I’m sorry so many of you claim to have had a bad encounter with LEO.
I've had very few interactions with law enforcement of any kind, but what I have had was always calm and respectful on both sides. I hope any future ones will be as well. You guys have a tough job to do.
 
This is absolutely one of the most retarded things I have ever heard. The entire Nuclear Industry's risk model is founded on everyone having a questioning attitude and speaking up when something is not or doesn't seem right, from the newest employee all the way up to the Site Vice President.

You are expected to challenge and coach people on not adhering to the standards, whether safety related or not, and you face consequences if you do not..... because in any group of people doing almost any task, there is usually someone with a perspective or price of information upon which success or failure of the team depends, and one person not speaking up can lead the entire team to failure.

As always, you really don't know what you're talking about.
I'll bet you don't tell your co-workers they're wrong in sight of the public which was my statement. If you do ,well, that's just unprofessional.
 
I'll bet you don't tell your co-workers they're wrong in sight of the public which was my statement. If you do ,well, that's just unprofessional.

Yes, we do.... because that is a key component of teamwork and accountability.

Professionalism is not letting the team fail for the sake of appearances.
 
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Reminds me of the situation with teachers. Not enough of them, recruit noobs, tell the veterans they're wrong, etc.

(except teachers don't get excellent equipment)
 
I think a lot of what the cops here on CFF are seeing and calling "hate" is actually "fear." Officers i have interacted with were normal people. I am a believer in the golden rule, so my interactions have been cordial. The fear is meeting the "bad" cop, the one who is hyper aggressive and wants action and probably shouldn't have a badge. The fact that everything is now on 24 hour TV cycle we are seeing these guys interactions more and more. Also, I think Cops are being told constantly that they are in mortal danger based on scenarios from around the country. It's the same problem from different sides right? The militarization aspect is also problematic.
 
This poor officer that killed the lady did so through training brought about by the higher minds that think they can take people off the street and thusly train them to react properly to every incident including the use of deadly force. When trained to react to preceived threats in an instance no person pushes the right button every time and there's not an officer on the street that does so every time. We learn as we go and that officer was not experienced enough to be placed in the situation he failed. Training only goes so far and dumping new officers on the street is hazard at it's best. A rookie cop charged to go at 2:00 AM in a racially biased neighborhood is pushing the window of certainty and now his life is destroyed and the community sinks further into their reasoning of being the hunted. All the while the city fathers will throw this cop to the wolves, problem solved for them but not for those that carry the badge or those that live a life fringed by the criminal lifestyle.
 
Professionalism is taking the offender aside and correcting them. Not calling them out in public, on video, which is what started this diversion.

That doesn't seem to have happened in any of the cases mentioned, to include the illegal vehicle search over a 'spent shotgun shell'. When professionalism includes letting a wrong slide till the person whose rights are being violated is out of earshot, it's not professionalism, it's wrong.
 
You've never been in a war zone, have you?



This is absolutely one of the most retarded things I have ever heard. The entire Nuclear Industry's risk model is founded on everyone having a questioning attitude and speaking up when something is not or doesn't seem right, from the newest employee all the way up to the Site Vice President.

You are expected to challenge and coach people on not adhering to the standards, whether safety related or not, and you face consequences if you do not..... because in any group of people doing almost any task, there is usually someone with a perspective or price of information upon which success or failure of the team depends, and one person not speaking up can lead the entire team to failure.

As always, you really don't know what you're talking about.



What if I told you perhaps you are the outlier, the rare variety of LE? Not representative of the buzz cut, roided out authority freak that enforces the scribblings of politicians with malice?

I would take it as a compliment, but perhaps turn the thinking around. I find most of the masses of LEO are like me, just unseen and unheard. Maybe that's why I've made it to 25 years with reputation and integrity intact, like almost all most peers. We've seen dozens of kids leave after a few years or get run off very quickly. You just have to look at the millions of police interactions every day, and compare that to the numbers of these videos or court cases. And, just for kicks, add in a 15 percent boost for supposed rude cops interaction on traffic stops or service calls. You're still talking about the far, far, vast majority of calls being handled in a professional manner; and these are public calls, not ones conducted in a business office/setting.

Yep, I've met the buzz cut, badge-heavy, roid freaks who talk a big game but freeze when stuff gets real. Typically the coward in them comes out. They don't last long, usually get in trouble or move to a small department who has to put up with their attitude.
 
There are certain things that people get fired for in every occupation. One of them is violence that is uncalled for. A cop who is hurting a helpless suspect that is in there custody just gets a written report in your post below. In any other occupation that is an immediate firing unless there are badly written guidelines or an overpowered union.
I'm sorry, I must have been unclear. The transport officer got suspended (not a puncher or punchee, just didn't prevent it), the puncher was convicted and fired.
 
I have rarely "called out" anyone in front of people, colleagues, patients, platoon-mates, whatever. The only time if it's a safety issue. Otherwise, I do it in private.

In a hot wash or debriefing it's different, but the language is important. I'm not going to demean anyone in front of others.
 
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On the "spent shotgun shell" incident, the search was only illegal if consent was refused. If they consented, it's all legal. If you had a recent crime in the area and can articulate the reason for the search under exigent circumstances, consent would not be needed. It all depends on what you articulate as the reason for the stop, and then the reason for the search. If your integrity is impaired, or if you fail to meet those elements, the results are inadmissible anyway and you and/or your agency will be writing a nice big check; which is how it should be. The rules exist for a reason.
I can ask you all day "can I look through your car/purse/ bags, etc.".. if you refuse consent, it ends there. No blood, no foul, have a nice day.
 
To get this back on track to the original post ( sorry for the hijack) , the bottomline is the officer was wrong. Probably his FTO or supervisor was wrong as well in teaching or allowing him to skulk around without using his flashlight on a welfare check or open structure call until he was ready/capable of executing better judgement. If you've rolled up in "stealth mode" to catch a bad guy, then you need to have a flashlight out to ensure your target before firing. Just like all of us do at home, we keep a light handy for those "bumps in the night" and ID the target before squeezing the trigger.
That's why he was convicted.

This is one of the ultimate nightmares for a policeman or serviceman of any stripe, killing an innocent. I'm not a big Dave Grossman fan either, but he does state a "sheepdog cannot harm the sheep" and this is a nonequivocable truth. I don't care much for those who would use the analogy of "sheep" to refer to non-LEO/non-servicemembers as I believe it's a mentality thing not an occupation thing; if you're on this forum at all, you've demonstrated you are a "sheepdog" already.

Also, since I've wasted enough of your time, let me put something to rest that I'm questioned about a lot concerning vehicle stops. #1: WE DO NOT KNOW WHO YOU ARE WHEN WE TURN ON THE LIGHTS TO STOP YOU, NOR DO WE CARE ABOUT YOUR RACE, AGE, OR SEXUAL ORIENTATION. We're stopping a VEHICLE which appears to have committed a violation. We have no magic camera to tell us who you are before we stop you, and we don't run tags to discriminate against [pick your favored person status] before we stop you. That's why we call in a tag number when we stop you, not your name. Besides, just because the tag is registered to you doesn't mean you're the driver. We literally do not know who is in the vehicle until we approach you. A professional officer will base the interaction afterwards on what you offer him ( bad attitude, smell of drugs, bloodshot eyes, weapons in plain view, etc...or a calm and decent demeanor, not bootlicking, just a common decency between one human and another). #2: WE HAVE NO TICKET QUOTA. That's TV, urban legend, and jailhouse lawyer stuff; forget it.

I am also extremely careful during a traffic stop in which I am a driver, that's just practical sense. I'm facing an armed person with a tactical advantage due to positioning and body armor. I will not be an "accident". I'm sorry is not what works after a shooting for the shootee. I'm slow and deliberate in my movements and words, as well as picking the spot for the stop. When their blue lights come on, I switch on my turn indicator and start looking for a safe place to stop. Safe for me and the officer. I place my hands far out of the window and touch my thumbs together with fingers spread, and I'm looking at the officer in the eyes as he approaches, not in the mirrors, I turn my head and am completely vulnerable. Car stops are one of the most nerve-wracking times for a policeman because you don't know what or whom is in the vehicle. Only cops and cons will do this, and it removes a lot of the trepidation an officer has while they approach the vehicle because we know what we're dealing with now. It takes us .000002 seconds to recognize you as a threat or non-threat like this.


I appreciated the opportunity to engage in a conversation with each of you on this matter in this forum, and I appreciate the civility in which it was handled.

Thanks!!
 
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I have rarely "called out" anyone in front of people, colleagues, patients, platoon-mates, whatever. The only time if it's a safety issue. Otherwise, I do it in private.

In a hot wash or debriefing it's different, but the language is important. I'm not going to demean anyone in front of others.
The difference is that one of your coworkers most likely isn't violating someone's rights. In a case where that is happening they should be corrected immediately.
 
Most of the real problem loudmouths with rude attitudes are the biggest pansies when it gets real anyway.
Just like every where else. ;)
 
I think a lot of what the cops here on CFF are seeing and calling "hate" is actually "fear." Officers i have interacted with were normal people. I am a believer in the golden rule, so my interactions have been cordial. The fear is meeting the "bad" cop, the one who is hyper aggressive and wants action and probably shouldn't have a badge. The fact that everything is now on 24 hour TV cycle we are seeing these guys interactions more and more. Also, I think Cops are being told constantly that they are in mortal danger based on scenarios from around the country. It's the same problem from different sides right? The militarization aspect is also problematic.
The golden rule doesn't always mean anything. I've said on here before that I've been chewed out by a police seargent because I called him officer. I've had a hippy looking friend get his Volkswagen torn apart because they claimed they smelled weed even though he didnt smoke it. I'm polite in any of my interactions with anyone until they are rude to me.
 
They might not have a quota per se but a traffic cop is going to get his ass chewed if he doesn't "keep up" with his peers in number of tickets per month.
 
On the "spent shotgun shell" incident, the search was only illegal if consent was refused. If they consented, it's all legal. If you had a recent crime in the area and can articulate the reason for the search under exigent circumstances, consent would not be needed. It all depends on what you articulate as the reason for the stop, and then the reason for the search. If your integrity is impaired, or if you fail to meet those elements, the results are inadmissible anyway and you and/or your agency will be writing a nice big check; which is how it should be. The rules exist for a reason.
I can ask you all day "can I look through your car/purse/ bags, etc.".. if you refuse consent, it ends there. No blood, no foul, have a nice day.

We all know this is a joke! If the police want to search a car they are going to, even if you refuse. That wonderful statement, I smell marijuana....
 
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