Red Flag Laws in Real Time

Wow. Just wow. This is a learning experience for all. How dies anyone know what to do if the information is unreliable? How do we develop trustable lines of communication? Anyone listening in on police scanners?
 
The concurrence of this episode and the Sandy Hook lawsuit kerfuffle have me even more on edge than usual, generally speaking. (As I have mentioned peripherally before, I am personally especially sensitive to the "red flag" potential abuse factor.)

IMO, the current climate in America is trending decidedly negative on a number of fronts.
 
NCLivingBrit said:
More than likely, then they raided the rally point for the protesters and arrested people for..... peaceable assembly?

Sounds very legal.
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Guess posting everything with your pals on social media isn’t that bright after all. The police have social media too. Who would have thought? Dumb ass’s.
 
JohnFreeman said:
Ham radio, anyone?
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Good idea. It’s still jammable, especially FM with capture effect. However, their frequencies are jammable too. Someone like you or I and a few others here have the knowledge to make equipment that could do it, too. It’s not hard once you understand how a basic transmitter works. It doesn’t take much signal power to render the frequency unusable within 10s of miles of range.
 
cubrock said:
During the Obama years, VA doctors were practically pushing it on people coming off deployment, according to several friends. Someone in the administration wanted as many vets with PTSD as possible.
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Just like food stamps. Taking the government dole means submitting to government control.
 
AR10ShooterinNC said:
It's going to become standard tactics for the police to turn off phones before a raid?
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Not just for raids, they have shut them off during protests, emergencies, etc. Isolated cases so far and it hasn't become SOP, but there's a chance this incident may change their mind on that.

noway2 said:
It doesn’t take much signal power to render the frequency unusable within 10s of miles of range.
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Yeah, but it's illegal if you do it. When THEY do it it's to save lives. It's worth impacting the rights of everybody around without reason if they can save just one life. Don't you want to save this veteran's life? why don't you support our veterans, deplorable?
 
It's pretty jacked up that the escalation by local leo is reported as being in response to an officer hearing a gunshot, but then the article reports no weapons were taken.

Police say a man facing charges in a domestic incident barricaded himself inside his home in Carmel Saturday, causing a seven-hour standoff.

They say it started around 2 p.m. when an officer went to speak with 28-year-old Alexander Booth at his home on Putnam Drive about an incident involving his wife.

The officer says they heard what believed to be a gunshot and requested backup when Booth barricaded himself. The Town of Carmel Police Department, The Putnam County Sheriff's Office and the Westchester County Department of Public Safety's special response and negotiation team responded to the standoff.

Officials say social media posts from Booth started going viral during the standoff, which led to a flood of phone calls and messages over the incident. The Putnam County Sheriff's Office says the calls shut down its ability to communicate with the community.

Police say it came to a peaceful resolution around 9:30 p.m. when Booth surrendered himself to police.

He was arrested and is facing charges related to a previous domestic incident, including burglary, criminal trespass, criminal contempt, aggravated harassment and petit larceny.

Police say they did not recover any weapons or ammunition from Booth's home and believe no one was injured.
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http://westchester.news12.com/story...stic-incident-causes-7hour-standoff-in-carmel
 
Two things about this stand out in my mind:

1) I don't believe the victim/perps story for a minute.
2) I don't believe the LE narrative for a minute.

$10 says that we eventually find out there was a prior domestic issue, his guns and mags were taken, he flipped out, and somehow this crapstorm happened.

Regardless, SAFE is BS and I feel sorry for the upstate NYers that have high taxes and crappy gun laws crammed down their throat by NYC.

edit - and my post is not meant to be supportive of red flag laws, which are also BS. Just that the truth has likely not been told by anyone yet.

(edited again for lots of profanity that is well deserved but not appreciated :) )
 
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DrScaryGuy said:
Not just for raids, they have shut them off during protests, emergencies, etc. Isolated cases so far and it hasn't become SOP, but there's a chance this incident may change their mind on that.
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There are a couple of lessons here. “They” are obviously plugged into the corporate social media, which was old news, but with real time capability at a disinformation campaign. It strikes me that this is a side offshoot of their “civil society 2.0” work to plug into social media to incite revolt. What’s somewhat shocking is that they would have implemented that here.

]Yeah, but it's illegal if you do it. When THEY do it it's to save lives. It's worth impacting the rights of everybody around without reason if they can save just one life. Don't you want to save this veteran's life? why don't you support our veterans, deplorable?
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If they want to start a fight, they’re going to get what’s commonly called 4th generation warfare. The first casualty is going to be “the law”.
 
SnowRooster said:
YouTube accounts live streaming this are being shut down. ‘Sean Havok did a live stream letting people know what was going on. It got taken down within minutes. He blasted this guys address calling locals to go . He can not livestream.
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This is how it happens. Not mass confiscations, not mass raids, but one at a time, in darkness. (not offering any commentary on this particular incident, just in general)

The only thing going in our favor is sheer numbers.
 
JBoyette said:
Easy to jam as most things are.
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Are they actually "jamming" anything? Pumping out garbage on frequencies seems unreliable. Way easier to just shut the cell towers down. Or better still, just change them so they don't accept traffic from non-approved phones so the .gov isn't impacted in the area and everyone else is. It's all digital, no reason not to code things the way you want them.
 
Jayne said:
Are they actually "jamming" anything? Pumping out garbage on frequencies seems unreliable. Way easier to just shut the cell towers down. Or better still, just change them so they don't accept traffic from non-approved phones so the .gov isn't impacted in the area and everyone else is. It's all digital, no reason not to code things the way you want them.
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Anything commercial could likely just be shutdown like you said. The jamming was in regards to ham bands but the technology applies to bands for other services as well. It’s highly illegal because it is effective. In FM ham radio it’s called “doubling” or capture effect. Basically the receivers intermix the signals and intelligible decode becomes nearly impossible. Also in the presence of strong signals receivers become overloaded and unable to detect weaker signals.

It really doesn’t take much to jam a frequency. The harder part is modulating the signal so that it effects a wide bandwidth.
 
JBoyette said:
Easy to jam as most things are.

The key is to freq hop or hard wire outside of the city coded requirements.
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Ham radio the MOST frequency agile of all services.
 
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noway2 said:
Good idea. It’s still jammable, especially FM with capture effect. However, their frequencies are jammable too. Someone like you or I and a few others here have the knowledge to make equipment that could do it, too. It’s not hard once you understand how a basic transmitter works. It doesn’t take much signal power to render the frequency unusable within 10s of miles of range.
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Agree. Of course even the most basic of handhelds can jump frequency within seconds anywhere from a few Kc to hundreds of Mhz to a different band. Sophisticated mil stuff is BIG, expensive, ponderous, and unavailable to most local PDs. From a practical standpoint, both you and I are better at operating our equipment than a fleet of LEO's with some tech box they've been handed.

It's a bureaucratic exercise to shut off cell service or take side cutters to coax cable.

Saturating hundreds of Mhz with high power FM?

Ain't gonna happen....
 
JT said:
The concurrence of this episode and the Sandy Hook lawsuit kerfuffle have me even more on edge than usual, generally speaking. (As I have mentioned peripherally before, I am personally especially sensitive to the "red flag" potential abuse factor.)

IMO, the current climate in America is trending decidedly negative on a number of fronts.
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Yes. The general public is being lead to believe that gun owners are violent extremist. A few more incidents like this, especially if one involves gun fire and we will be prime for a Reichstag fire.
Both sides being played.
 
Not so much jamming, but just turning off your devices. My FIL worked and retired from ATT, he was in on the start of cell phone tech. If the government can get your number, it's not hard to turn service off to that devices.
 
JohnFreeman said:
From a practical standpoint, both you and I are better at operating our equipment than a fleet of LEO's with some tech box they've been handed.
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True. That is one of the things we were told in AuxComm training.

AR10ShooterinNC said:
Not so much jamming, but just turning off your devices. My FIL worked and retired from ATT, he was in on the start of cell phone tech. If the government can get your number, it's not hard to turn service off to that devices.
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That’s because each device has an ID code that is used as a permission slip. Any commercial product, or especially service, can be taken over by gubmint.
 
JohnFreeman said:
Agree. Of course even the most basic of handhelds can jump frequency within seconds anywhere from a few Kc to hundreds of Mhz to a different band. Sophisticated mil stuff is BIG, expensive, ponderous, and unavailable to most local PDs. From a practical standpoint, both you and I are better at operating our equipment than a fleet of LEO's with some tech box they've been handed.

It's a bureaucratic exercise to shut off cell service or take side cutters to coax cable.

Saturating hundreds of Mhz with high power FM?

Ain't gonna happen....
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BatteryOaksBilly said:
I pledge to each of you tonight.....if I can come to your aid or you can get here, we'll put on a good show.
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That’s likely what it’s going to take. People who don’t know each other personally, except for sharing a common belief of right and wrong, and that govt. has gone too far coming together to stand against said govt.
 
noway2 said:
That’s likely what it’s going to take. People who don’t know each other personally, except for sharing a common belief of right and wrong, and that govt. has gone too far coming together to stand against said govt.
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I wonder if y'all (because I would certainly never engage in an illegal rebellion) will be treated with the same "they're just misunderstood, they were just trying to get money for college" kid-glove reports that others get. I also wonder if the cops would be just as kind to civil libertarians who were RIGHT THERE WHEN IT ALL HAPPENED but still managed to not see anything...
 
JBoyette said:
For some of you that have never looked up jamming, the key is a barrage jammer, the easest of all to do.

Google is your friend and if you had attic space a barrage jammer works on all levels, even the tac team near you.....

OR

https://www.jammer-store.com/gsm-blockers-jammers/
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Don't know what perspective you're coming from. If you're talking about how easy it is to jam cell phones, yes. You can even order cheap stuff from China that does it. And government entities can shut down towers. If you're talking about shutting down ham radio, that's completely different in scope and magnitude. Ham radio covers an almost infinite spectrum of frequencies and modalities not necessarily bound by channels or otherwise fixed architecture. It would take something like an EMP pulse to shut everything down and that would shut EVERYTHING down. That is until a ham radio operator pulls out his backup unit. ;)
 
georgel said:
Both sides being played.
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Yah, there seems to be at least 3 different stories of how this situation developed.

noway2 said:
That’s likely what it’s going to take. People who don’t know each other personally, except for sharing a common belief of right and wrong, and that govt. has gone too far coming together to stand against said govt.
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So there's this Alex that is the catalyst and two common denominators, being unconstitutional RFL and True American Spirit.

Addressing the unconstitutional RFL, there are better ways or laws already to address two of the three stories I read.

Addressing True American Spirit, all of us are not dead yet.

I've read that from 25 ~ 50 to upwards of 300 arrived to support Alex.
I would believe that if 25, let alone upwards of 300, arrived to support Alex that the gov't types were starting to Schiff their pants.

The only other time ( I know of ) that a stand off developed was Bundy.
For those reading this and thinking Bundy was wrong, etc, etc, No he was not wrong at the Core issue and I have addressed this and shared the "Back Story" info on this forum, just search for it.
The point being in Bundy is the word or call went out and supporters arrived and the gov't types were Schiffing their pants.
BTW, with Bundy cell towers were also turned off.

These "Red Flag Laws" need to be rescinded and go back to using the existing law~s to remove Bad Actors(?) instead of stealing personal property.


Principle
Principle.jpg

2A Clause_b.jpg
 
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YeeHaa said:
So there's this Alex that is the catalyst and two common denominators, being unconstitutional RFL and True American Spirit.

Addressing the unconstitutional RFL, there are better ways or laws already to address two of the three stories I read.
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Corruption. The ideal system is based upon a concept commonly called checks and balances where courts and even petitioning legislators are the traditional means of redress. Of course this assumes right will prevail over wrong and traditions and principles such as the 2nd will be respected. Unfortunately, in an environment of activist courts and distorted legislator distribution caused by dense liberal Democrat areas the system is failing.

These, um gosh darn, RFLs should never have passed and when they did the courts should have immediately struck them down. Redress through the system didn’t work. Now the govt. is getting a lesson in the meaning of govt. by the people. The politicians are not dictators.
 
That is very well said
 
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JohnFreeman said:
We're not talking about cell phone jamming. That's already a given.
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Despite the fact that it well documented to have happened a number of times, a lot of people aren't even aware that it is possible. I've seen a few news stories where they just stated something like "cell services were unavailable". It's concerning to me because either the news is complicit, or they are shirking THEIR duties to report what happened because the gov't is imposing a blackout and they're not fighting it.

Granted, "our" people pay more attention to this sort of thing than the general public, but it doesn't hurt to preach to the choir once in a while. Honestly I didn't know that blocking devices, which would be a felony for us regular civilians to use, were so small, cheap, ready-to-use, and readily available to LEO these days...
 
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