Active shooter NAS Pensacola

WTF are they up to now?
 
I am going to say this, it is likely not going to be a popular opinion given that it's about some who are currently serving in uniform, but this is based on the conversations taking place on a lot of submarine groups on FB.

We have not, as parents and a nation, done a great job with raising our children to deal with hardships of life in the armed services. They're throwing around terms like "toxic submarine culture," the "toxic old ways" and the like.

Talking about the stress new personnel face when they're not qualified, the high op tempo, the seasoned folks not being nice to the new guys, etc.

In short, we have a generation of people who still haven't come of age in their 20s,who haven't figured out that life, especially in the military, is hard.

I don't know the specifics here - but I can tell you I am certainly relieved not to still be on submarine duty with folks that want to change the culture of the service.

Not saying that has anything to do with this particular shooting (I not on any airdale groups to see if they're whining about the same stuff), but this doesn't bode well for the future of the United States military.
 
There was also an attack on the naval base at Pearl Harbor this week. Looks like same ol shi'ite.

My nephew-in-law is a submariner, but he is at a different base in Florida thank goodness.

yeah the military is reflecting the trend in population @SPM and it's not good.
 
Last edited:
SPM said:
I am going to say this, it is likely not going to be a popular opinion given that it's about some who are currently serving in uniform, but this is based on the conversations taking place on a lot of submarine groups on FB.

We have not, as parents and a nation, done a great job with raising our children to deal with hardships of life in the armed services. They're throwing around terms like "toxic submarine culture," the "toxic old ways" and the like.

Talking about the stress new personnel face when they're not qualified, the high op tempo, the seasoned folks not being nice to the new guys, etc.

In short, we have a generation of people who still haven't come of age in their 20s,who haven't figured out that life, especially in the military, is hard.

I don't know the specifics here - but I can tell you I am certainly relieved not to still be on submarine duty with folks that want to change the culture of the service.

Not saying that has anything to do with this particular shooting (I not on any airdale groups to see if they're whining about the same stuff), but this doesn't bode well for the future of the United States military.
Click to expand...

I was never in the military so my opinion of what could be wrong doesn’t really count, but seems like drill instructors used to be able washout the snowflakes in boot. Now they have to be friends and care about feelings.
 
According to certain media they are calling this the 391st mass shooting this year in the US. They are really trying to spin the fact that since bases are secured areas with strict gun control that this show guns are the problem and stricter laws are needed. Because this happened on base as did the one at Joint Base Pearl Harbor most left leaning civilians probably won't pay that much attention to it over the next few days so I wouldn't be surprised for the next incident to occur at a mall full of Christmas shoppers in order to get the left riled up and renew calls for gun control and confiscation.
 
Last edited:
SPM said:
I am going to say this, it is likely not going to be a popular opinion given that it's about some who are currently serving in uniform, but this is based on the conversations taking place on a lot of submarine groups on FB.

We have not, as parents and a nation, done a great job with raising our children to deal with hardships of life in the armed services. They're throwing around terms like "toxic submarine culture," the "toxic old ways" and the like.

Talking about the stress new personnel face when they're not qualified, the high op tempo, the seasoned folks not being nice to the new guys, etc.

In short, we have a generation of people who still haven't come of age in their 20s,who haven't figured out that life, especially in the military, is hard.

I don't know the specifics here - but I can tell you I am certainly relieved not to still be on submarine duty with folks that want to change the culture of the service.

Not saying that has anything to do with this particular shooting (I not on any airdale groups to see if they're whining about the same stuff), but this doesn't bode well for the future of the United States military.
Click to expand...

As sad as it may be I believe you have hit the nail on the head!

Am I am guilty of it apparently.

I had 2 girls and 1 boy. My son (41yo now) has become the wimpiest, mealey mouthed, keyboard tough guy that is irresponsible, narcissistic and self serving! I obviously failed the bastard. He probably is the mail man's kid!

My daughters are 180 degrees out. Proud, self-sufficient, law abiding pillars of society.

I bring this up because a large part of why I retired when I did was the changes I saw in the troops I was dealing with on a day to day basis! When I retired I was all but a selected MGYST (E-9) with orders to Kaneohe Bay, HI and had the world by the short hairs.

I was not thrilled with living on an island but I could get over that. The biggest issue tome was the quality of the personnel I saw everyday. The kids did not accept responsibility for their own actions. Did not act responsibly and did not have the ability to be cohesive as a unit. It's scary! It was a big deal to me in an environment where I needed to know how they would react.
 
Ben Jefferson said:
As sad as it may be I believe you have hit the nail on the head!

Am I am guilty of it apparently.

I had 2 girls and 1 boy. My son (41yo now) has become the wimpiest, mealey mouthed, keyboard tough guy that is irresponsible, narcissistic and self serving! I obviously failed the bastard. He probably is the mail man's kid!

My daughters are 180 degrees out. Proud, self-sufficient, law abiding pillars of society.

I bring this up because a large part of why I retired when I did was the changes I saw in the troops I was dealing with on a day to day basis! When I retired I was all but a selected MGYST (E-9) with orders to Kaneohe Bay, HI and had the world by the short hairs.

I was not thrilled with living on an island but I could get over that. The biggest issue tome was the quality of the personnel I saw everyday. The kids did not accept responsibility for their own actions. Did not act responsibly and did not have the ability to be cohesive as a unit. It's scary! It was a big deal to me in an environment where I needed to know how they would react.
Click to expand...

We saw an easily identifiable shift in the quality of some of the guys we were getting out of the nuclear pipeline around....2002/2003. Guys coming to you for quals on their in-rate stuff, being asked the most basic questions they should have learned way before coming to the boat....not knowing the answers and even going so far as arguing with you about why they didn’t need to know that because their friend on such and such boat said he didn’t get asked that stuff. Convincing these kids that everyone on a submarine could kill everyone else on a submarine due to a lack of knowledge got you the carp look, or the brush off, or an eye roll.

We had one kid that was like that with everything - his in-rate quals, Submarine Warfare quals, all of it. He left on a Friday, checked himself into Tripler Army Medical Center for the weekend and told them how mean we were to him, how demanding we were, how stressful his life was as a Nuc on a submarine. We were told if he was to come back, we had to completely lay off him, stop expecting so much from him, etc. As a Division, we said we would rather be short handed than have someone like that on the boat. So that’s what happened.

A month or so later, I saw him on base sweeping sidewalks. I talked to him - he said he had never been happier in his life. 2 years of training to be a nuclear electrician- sweeping sidewalks and happy.

I won’t even start with the Reservists I got reactivated to serve with in Kuwait and Iraq for OIF. That was a whole different kind of snowflake asshattery.
 
Last edited:
UNCONFIRMED/UNVERIFIED: A former Airedale (guy who worked in the Naval Aviation community) with friends in Pensacola is claiming multiple sources saying the shooter is a Saudi military pilot in the States for training.

EDIT to Add:. CONFIRMED SAUDI NATIONAL was the shooter. Scooped the major network by half an hour.
 
Last edited:
Ben Jefferson said:
As sad as it may be I believe you have hit the nail on the head!

Am I am guilty of it apparently.

I had 2 girls and 1 boy. My son (41yo now) has become the wimpiest, mealey mouthed, keyboard tough guy that is irresponsible, narcissistic and self serving! I obviously failed the bastard. He probably is the mail man's kid!

My daughters are 180 degrees out. Proud, self-sufficient, law abiding pillars of society.

I bring this up because a large part of why I retired when I did was the changes I saw in the troops I was dealing with on a day to day basis! When I retired I was all but a selected MGYST (E-9) with orders to Kaneohe Bay, HI and had the world by the short hairs.

I was not thrilled with living on an island but I could get over that. The biggest issue tome was the quality of the personnel I saw everyday. The kids did not accept responsibility for their own actions. Did not act responsibly and did not have the ability to be cohesive as a unit. It's scary! It was a big deal to me in an environment where I needed to know how they would react.
Click to expand...

When my dad retired from the Corps he was a MGYSGT select, but it came with 2-year unaccompanied to Okinawa, so he retired (Master Sgt).

The military, it ain't for everyone. Some kids it hardens and disciplines in a good way; others, not. One of two things come out of fire: melting or hardening. Boot camp is so damn fast it's hard to really find out who won't be able to hack the life. It's easy to be the gray man in boot.
 
SPM said:
UNCONFIRMED/UNVERIFIED: A former Airedale (guy who worked in the Naval Aviation community) with friends in Pensacola is claiming multiple sources saying the shooter is a Saudi military pilot in the States for training.
Click to expand...

damn!
 
9outof10mms said:
The Fox News link is not saying the same.
Click to expand...

As of 15 minutes ago, the Associated Press and Yahoo, among others, is reporting it was a Saudi student. So it’s looking like that is accurate info.
 
One thing that will certainly come from these two incidents... The top brass in all four branches of the military will be even more fervent in their beliefs that our military members can't be trusted with small arms while on base. This dreadful situation creates a gun-free zone and makes the regulation-following servicemen & women more vulnerable to attack.
 
dkmatthews said:
One thing that will certainly come from these two incidents... The top brass in all four branches of the military will be even more fervent in their beliefs that our military members can't be trusted with small arms while on base. This dreadful situation creates a gun-free zone and makes the regulation-following servicemen & women more vulnerable to attack.[/QUOT

The damn shame is they might!

WTF has come of our nation?
Click to expand...
 
Ben Jefferson said:
The damn shame is they might!

WTF has come of our nation?
Click to expand...

I can tell you this from my seven years of service in the USN, the POOW wore a sidearm in a holster but there were NEVER to be any rounds loaded into that sidearm. The magazine (with only five rounds) was kept stored in the mag pouch on the duty belt. The only time a topside watchstander loaded rounds was if we made a port stop in a less than friendly city with some kind of advanced intel - and then we would have a rover on the superstructure with an M14.
 
SPM said:
We saw an easily identifiable shift in the quality of some of the guys we were getting out of the nuclear pipeline around....2002/2003.
Click to expand...
Fascinating. The millennial generation began in 1984, which would have made these 18 year olds the first mellenials to reach adulthood or the military.

On a side note, but one this thread has reminded me of, I've been reading the book Tribe by Sebastian Juncker. In it he describes that in the US there is a fascination with thanking people for spending time in the military. By way of contrast, in a country like Israel that has compulsory military service, thanking soldiers is seen as odd and would be like thanking someone for paying taxes.

The point of the book, which may be related to this sort of thing, is that military is often times good at creating a form of tribe - in a good way in that you become a community whose collective good is the goal of all individuals. Perhaps there is something that causes certain individuals to fail to become part of the tribe.
 
  • Like
Reactions: SPM
SPM said:
Convincing these kids that everyone on a submarine could kill everyone else on a submarine due to a lack of knowledge got you the carp look, or the brush off, or an eye roll.
Click to expand...
Over on Defensive Carry before it too got taken over by the Canooks, there was a guy who claimed to be the gold shift commander on a boomer sub. This was the Oboingo years and they were pushing allowing women to serve on those subs. His point was that the duty was the most physically demanding, dirty, hardest job you could imagine in cramped quarters and took a lot of physical strength. He also raised the obvious issue of pregnancy saying there would be no way to get her off the boat and it would become a mission jeopardizing event.

He said, consider what the mission of those subs is, in part guaranteeing destruction of any nation or nations that would attack and incapacitate this nation. He asked, do you really want to jeopardize that function in the name of political correctness?
 
Last edited:
noway2 said:
Fascinating. The millennial generation began in 1984, which would have made these 18 year olds the first mellenials to reach adulthood or the military.

On a side note, but one this thread has reminded me of, I've been reading the book Tribe by Sebastian Juncker. In it he describes that in the US there is a fascination with thanking people for spending time in the military. By way of contrast, in a country like Israel that has compulsory military service, thanking soldiers is seen as odd and would be like thanking someone for paying taxes.

The point of the book, which may be related to this sort of thing, is that military is often times good at creating a form of tribe - in a good way in that you become a community whose collective good is the goal of all individuals. Perhaps there is something that causes certain individuals to fail to become part of the tribe.
Click to expand...

I've heard mixed reviews on the Tribe, might pick it up when I finish what I am into currently.

I may be wrong but the collective is actually, or used to be, pretty strong in the Corps. I know certain Army units are the same.
 
concepthomes1 said:
So, 2nd US Navy base shooting this week. Shooter is Saudi AF Officer, definitely gotta be terrorism.
Click to expand...

'Those who do not learn history are doomed to repeat it.'
A Saudi national 9/11 redo training?
 
SPM said:
I am going to say this, it is likely not going to be a popular opinion given that it's about some who are currently serving in uniform, but this is based on the conversations taking place on a lot of submarine groups on FB.

We have not, as parents and a nation, done a great job with raising our children to deal with hardships of life in the armed services. They're throwing around terms like "toxic submarine culture," the "toxic old ways" and the like.

Talking about the stress new personnel face when they're not qualified, the high op tempo, the seasoned folks not being nice to the new guys, etc.

In short, we have a generation of people who still haven't come of age in their 20s,who haven't figured out that life, especially in the military, is hard.

I don't know the specifics here - but I can tell you I am certainly relieved not to still be on submarine duty with folks that want to change the culture of the service.

Not saying that has anything to do with this particular shooting (I not on any airdale groups to see if they're whining about the same stuff), but this doesn't bode well for the future of the United States military.
Click to expand...

My son in law was telling me something about "stress cards" in boot camp???
 
random said:
My son in law was telling me something about "stress cards" in boot camp???
Click to expand...

They weren’t a thing when I went through, but apparently it is a thing. If you feel you are being singled out or especially mistreated, apparently you have a card that makes the DI/RDC/Drill Sergeants give you a break to collect yourself or something.
 
SPM said:
They weren’t a thing when I went through, but apparently it is a thing. If you feel you are being singled out or especially mistreated, apparently you have a card that makes the DI/RDC/Drill Sergeants give you a break to collect yourself or something.
Click to expand...
751592BF-DDC3-42DF-9180-C7575909414E.jpeg

You get to call a time out?!?! WTF!
 
SPM said:
They weren’t a thing when I went through, but apparently it is a thing. If you feel you are being singled out or especially mistreated, apparently you have a card that makes the DI/RDC/Drill Sergeants give you a break to collect yourself or something.
Click to expand...
And THESE are the people who the Dems think are going to come take our guns?

When these powderpuffs get into combat, are they going to start whining because "they have tanks, why can't we have tanks? It's not fair!"

Can someone just hit the reset button already?
 
SnowRooster said:
View attachment 172810

You get to call a time out?!?! WTF!
Click to expand...
random said:
And THESE are the people who the Dems think are going to come take our guns?

When these powderpuffs get into combat, are they going to start whining because "they have tanks, why can't we have tanks? It's not fair!"

Can someone just hit the reset button already?
Click to expand...

So I did some internet digging - several sites, including a few that are trustworthy military related sites say it’s an urban legend, at least the way it’s understood as a get out of basic break card. Apparently, there were cards issued as a quick reference for folks to use if they were feeling stressed, depressed, or suicidal......but did not and do not, in fact, get the ass chewers to stop gnawing on asses.
 
If those cards actually existed, I'd bet playing one would get you extra scrutiny and special attention.
 
SnowRooster said:
I was never in the military so my opinion of what could be wrong doesn’t really count, but seems like drill instructors used to be able washout the snowflakes in boot. Now they have to be friends and care about feelings.
Click to expand...
If we washed all the snowflakes out, there wouldn’t be but 2 or 3 kids left anymore!
 
georgel said:
If those cards actually existed, I'd bet playing one would get you extra scrutiny and special attention.
Click to expand...
Son in law joined the army in 2000. He said the drill sgt handed their stress cards out, told them what they were, and made it clear that if he ever saw one again, there would be hell to pay.
 
I don't understand why Sheriff dept. needed to go onto the base to deal with the situation.
Getting access to a patrol car(s) and wearing uniforms driving up to the gates 'you got an active shooter, we're here to stop it'
and they let you inside.
 
Hammer21b said:
Ours would still pound you if you screwed up! 1983 Ft Sill, OK and just about all were Nam vets!
Click to expand...

'85 myself
Not the platoon I was in but next door the drill had a remote control tank he'd drive into the bay, with a little flag attached that had "Drop!" on it. If you weren't in the front leaning rest when he made it in the room, your ass was his...


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro
 
WTF are we allowing Saudi mudslimes on our soil?!? Much less military bases to train them to kill Americans?!?
There’s no excuse. For the first time in US history muhamed has made it to the top 10 boy baby names.
Everything the mohammedans believe is anti-Constitution, Liberty, the enemy and downright evil.
Drumph, if you’re worth a damn, stop this.
“As of this week, there are more than 850 Saudis in the United States for various training activities. They are among more than 5,000 foreign students from 153 countries in the U.S. going through military training.”
https://apnews.com/1102076110d04018176b4f7f12017347
 
Last edited:
Pink_Vapor said:
WTF are we allowing Saudi mudslides on our soil, much less military bases to train them to kill Americans?!?
There’s no excuse. For the first time in US history muhamed has made it to the top 20 boy baby names.
Everything the mohammedans believe is anti-Constitution, Liberty, the enemy and downright evil.
Drumph, if you’re worth a damn, stop this.
“As of this week, there are more than 850 Saudis in the United States for various training activities. They are among more than 5,000 foreign students from 153 countries in the U.S. going through military training.”
https://apnews.com/1102076110d04018176b4f7f12017347
Click to expand...

Because the $ and cultural marxism. Finding a politician with the stones to attack either issues is like finding a unicorn.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom