Credentials when selling to LEO?

Fooboy

Fooboy

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Guys - sorry if this is in the wrong spot - please move if so.

I know when selling to non-LEO individual, I need to get a PPP or view a CWP.

An LEO is interested in buying a handgun but only has his Badge and Police ID - am I able to sell to him?

Looking to find some clarity on what's in the NC Laws on this. I dont sell pistols often and just want to cover my bases.
 
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draco88 said:
Odficers are exempt from obtaining PPP.
Can show departmental id, among other things.
Read NCGS 14-404 section (d)
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This. It’s a recent change. I know this because my LEO friend abandoned getting his CHP as a result of this law. Some FFL’s still don’t know or like it.
 
While we're on this subject, I have a question. I know someone that is an NC Correctional officer. He has a permit card to carry concealed, issued by the state, but does not have a CHP like you and I do. Here also has his state ID. Im thinking his permit only allows him to carry concealed. Is he considered LEO, by this statue? It's very vague. I have a gun he is wanting, and need to know how to proceed.

Thanks

Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk
 
jodyisaacs said:
While we're on this subject, I have a question. I know someone that is an NC Correctional officer. He has a permit card to carry concealed, issued by the state, but does not have a CHP like you and I do. Here also has his state ID. Im thinking his permit only allows him to carry concealed. Is he considered LEO, by this statue? It's very vague. I have a gun he is wanting, and need to know how to proceed.

Thanks

Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk
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That sounds like he has a permit like a armored car guy. If he is not a sworn NC LEO, he needs a CHP or PPP. That’s my guess/understanding.
 
draco88 said:
Odficers are exempt from obtaining PPP.
Can show departmental id, among other things.
Read NCGS 14-404 section (d)
Click to expand...
Some, another case of the Crown's Men being more better than us mere mortals.
 
I know how things change but I worked for the then Department of Corrections for 29 years but none of us were ever authorized to carry concealed because of our job. The parole officers, I would assume, were.
 
ronn47 said:
Some, another case of the Crown's Men being more better than us mere mortals.
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Yeah, this is a case of I wouldn’t sell to one unless they met the requirements that I’d have to meet.

Is that adding my own requirements beyond the laws, like some do with a BoS? Yep...

Probably make an exception if it was somebody I knew ahead of time.
 
lasttombstone said:
I know how things change but I worked for the then Department of Corrections for 29 years but none of us were ever authorized to carry concealed because of our job. The parole officers, I would assume, were.
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He's not authorized to carry concealed on the job, but the state now issues a permit to them to carry concealed when they are off. I know the guy very well, have known him for 30+years, and have seen his permit. They only started issuing these less than 5 or 6 years ago.

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jodyisaacs said:
He's not authorized to carry concealed on the job, but the state now issues a permit to them to carry concealed when they are off. I know the guy very well, have known him for 30+years, and have seen his permit. They only started issuing these less than 5 or 6 years ago.
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Makes sense so they can defend themselves if they are off duty. Should get them the CHP.
 
I acknowledge that this is a very polarizing comment...

I don't believe in special people. If a cop didn't have a CHL or a PPP, I wouldn't sell to them no matter how many times they flashed a badge at me. I mean... if I REALLY needed to pay my mortgage, maybe. but my account isn't that low yet that I have to consider telling cops how special and better than the rest of us they are and that they deserve special privileges that the rest of us don't get. Statistically, cops get away with a lot of things that we don't, and get to keep their badges even if they're found guilty of things that would get the rest of us to have our licenses yanked.
 
I had a local fellow interested in a gun. Over PM’s, I asked whether he had a Permit. He answered back, “I only have an ill-fitting polyester uniform and a Crown Vic”. I’d had no idea he was a LEO.
 
DrScaryGuy said:
Statistically, cops get away with a lot of things that we don't, and get to keep their badges even if they're found guilty of things that would get the rest of us to have our licenses yanked.
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Statistically, they also don’t return home from work in numbers greater than most of us.
 
I’d have a hard time selling to a LEO without a PPP, I simply don’t know the exceptions to the law well enough or how to determine the validity of their claim to be a LEO. My ad would say CHP or PPP, and if he/she showed up with neither they’d be leaving empty handed having wasted my time.

The cops I know are mostly good guys trying to do their job, I mean the ones that aren’t family.
 
Jeppo said:
Statistically, they also don’t return home from work in numbers greater than most of us.
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Good point, you don't know where your gun would end up...
As for the danger of their job, I thought this was an old debunked myth. A whole lot of normal jobs are statistically MUCH more dangerous than being a cop. Being a farmer or commercial driver carries 2x the danger, roofers and pilots 4x, and fishermen are at 8x. Being a cop was only #18 in this year's roundup.
 
DrScaryGuy said:
Good point, you don't know where your gun would end up...
As for the danger of their job, I thought this was an old debunked myth. A whole lot of normal jobs are statistically MUCH more dangerous than being a cop. Being a farmer or commercial driver carries 2x the danger, roofers and pilots 4x, and fishermen are at 8x. Being a cop was only #18 in this year's roundup.
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Cab drivers should be allowed to behave like movie CIA agents on disavowal if we use the danger metric, last time I checked they're #1 and don't get on call choppers and their fellow gang members with guns as backup.
 
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DrScaryGuy said:
Good point, you don't know where your gun would end up...
As for the danger of their job, I thought this was an old debunked myth. A whole lot of normal jobs are statistically MUCH more dangerous than being a cop. Being a farmer or commercial driver carries 2x the danger, roofers and pilots 4x, and fishermen are at 8x. Being a cop was only #18 in this year's roundup.
Click to expand...

The one difference is accidental deaths and murder. There sure are a lot more accidental deaths in other fields and a lot less people killing you just because you have a uniform. If I had to guess if they added every incident of having to fight not just being killed it would probably blow your mind. But, it is What it is.
 
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NCLivingBrit said:
Statistically they beat their spouses a lot more than most of us too.
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A little thread drift wouldn't you say?? From someone asking about selling a gun to this? :rolleyes: We have enough beat up the LEO's threads without another comment completely off of the original question.
 
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Jim1392 said:
A little thread drift wouldn't you say?? From someone asking about selling a gun to this? :rolleyes: We have enough beat up the LEO's threads without another comment completely off of the original question.
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It was a response to this.

Screenshot_20191224-095537.png

I notice you weren't carping about the pro-cop thread drift.
 
OP, I would tell him the place for arguing the law is in a courtroom. I’d need to see a CHP or PPP, or no sale.

I would also mention that I would love to not have to deal with such ridiculous things, but since every time these things are up to be repealed folks in ill-fitting polyester uniforms and Crown Vics line up in opposition to to getting rid of these infringements, I’m afraid I cannot sell without imposing those same requirements.
 
NCLivingBrit said:
It was a response to this.

View attachment 177253

I notice you weren't carping about the pro-cop thread drift.
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I'm not CARPING either way. But I think there is just no reason to turn threads into bashing LEO's or pro LEO's threads when the original question wasn't about their behavior.
 
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Jim1392 said:
I'm not CARPING either way. But I think there is just no reason to turn threads into bashing LEO's or pro LEO's threads when the original question wasn't about their behavior.
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To an extent it is. We're supposed. To trust LEO's to perform an act we're all legally required to get permitted for (buying a handgun) that they aren't. That definitely brings character into the equation in my book.
 
Corrections Officers/Detention Officers are not sworn LEO in NC, therefore they need a PPP/CWP like anyone else would. Doesn't matter if they have their armed certification or not.

Sworn LEO only need their credentials from the place that holds their certification and employment information. HOWEVER, the sale to this person is 100% up to the discretion of the seller. If you'd rather the LEO have a PPP/CWP (which they are perfectly capable of getting) then don't sell it to them unless they have it. Or meet at an FFL and have them process it.

When I was in service I bought several with my credentials from FFL's, but when I purchased from a person I made sure I had my CWP on me so they knew it was covered from both ends, even though it wasn't necessarily required by law.

It went something like this:
-"Here are my credentials" *hands badge and ID (with expiration and all pertinent information)*
-"Oh okay cool."
-"I have my permit if you'd rather see that."
-"Oh great, thank you."
Done. Or I wouldn't offer my badge at all. I'd just give them the CWP like anyone else would.

Getting a CWP in NC isn't hard and not that big of a deal. I know so many Officers/Deputies that get one just to cover them from both ends if they're off-duty. If anything happened my thoughts were "I'm a CWP holder my ID is in my wallet." And then when I'd be alone with the Officer I'd tell them I'm off-duty and give them my badge and ID (or if they search me they'd find it anyway).

***Trying my best to ignore all the anti-LEO crap...***
 
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The wife beating statistic has improved in recent years
I forget what the homicide stat was, something like LEOs are 3 or 4 times more likely to commit murder than the general public.

As scared as a lot of people seem to be that they may sell to a criminal, selling to a LEO just sounds too dangerous to me
 
Jeppo said:
Statistically, they also don’t return home from work in numbers greater than most of us.
Click to expand...

There are plenty of vocations that are much more dangerous as a rule than being a police officer. Chemical plant workers, firefighters, farmers, truck drivers, loggers, etc. The fatal injury rate for loggers ( the most dangerous job ) is 10 times the rate for police officers. The rate of job related fatal injuries is about the same for police officers as it is for taxi drivers.
 
Skaufma0 said:
***Trying my best to ignore all the anti-LEO crap...***
Click to expand...

Give it as much effort as you guys do to ignoring all the thousands of pets, children, autistic, deaf, and other assorted innocent folks that suffer at the hands of your profession every year, and you’ll find it doesn’t require your best.

At all.
 
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SPM said:
Give it as much effort as you guys do to ignoring all the thousands of pets, children, autistic, deaf, and other assorted innocent folks that suffer at the hands of your profession every year, and you’ll find it doesn’t require your best.

At all.
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Well I tried.

*I'm stunned by the disrespect towards LEO's exhibited by people on this site. It's unfortunate really, but I guess it is what it is. I'm not getting involved any further.


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Skaufma0 said:
Well I tried.

So let’s ignore that fact that the average life expectancy of someone in law enforcement is 57, most often because of stress induced illness and suicide. We deal with things your keyboard-warrior mind can’t even comprehend on a daily basis and then people expect us to be perfect, even though we’re still human. Often times we have .03 seconds to make a decision and act on it and then you have as much time as you’d like to critique it, with no training and no accurate idea of what it would be like in those boots.


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Easy Killer. Some of us have been to actual war, know about stress and death and lots of time in boots with real 24/7/365 danger.

It’s not the same thing. You guys, on average, are about the 15th most dangerous profession in these United States.

It’s safer now than at any time since the 1890s to be a LEO. And that’s from data from pro-police sources (NLEOMF).
 
Skaufma0 said:
Well I tried.

So let’s ignore that fact that the average life expectancy of someone in law enforcement is 57, most often because of stress induced illness and suicide. We deal with things your keyboard-warrior mind can’t even comprehend on a daily basis and then people expect us to be perfect, even though we’re still human. Often times we have .03 seconds to make a decision and act on it and then you have as much time as you’d like to critique it, with no training and no accurate idea of what it would be like in those boots.


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No. Its not 57. That is from a debunked study from 2013. Actuarial data from CalPERS pension administrators shows that
life expectancy data for public safety members (police and fire, which are grouped together by the pension fund):

"-- If the retirement age is 55, the retiree is expected to live to be 81.4 if male, and 85 if female.
-- If the retirement age is 60, the retiree is expected to live to be age 82 if male, and 85.5 if female.
-- If the retirement age is 65, the retiree is expected to live to be age 82.9 if male, and 86.1 if female."

My own great grandfather was a veteran of the World War One trenches, Spent 3 years after the war shooting Irishmen down in the streets of Cork and burning villages as a Black and Tan in the Irish Revolution ( Yep, war criminal ) and 40 years as an LA County sheriff deputy and lived 'til the ripe old age of 98.
 
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Skaufma0 said:
So let’s ignore that fact that the average life expectancy of someone in law enforcement is 57, most often because of stress induced illness and suicide. We deal with things your keyboard-warrior mind can’t even comprehend on a daily basis and then people expect us to be perfect, even though we’re still human. Often times we have .03 seconds to make a decision and act on it and then you have as much time as you’d like to critique it, with no training and no accurate idea of what it would be like in those boots.
Click to expand...


Jesus
 
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