Iran Says It Unintentionally Shot Down Ukrainian Airliner

georgel

georgel

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So, Iran is owning up to shooting down the airliner, accidentally. After saying it was mechanical failure. America and Canada have earlier claimed/speculated that Iran had shot down the airliners, accidentally.

Does anyone else, but me, find this soft rhetoric peculiar? I mean, where's the righteous indignation? Where's the blaming, accusations and counter-accusations? And saber rattling? Everyone is soft peddling it. Yes, I believe it was an accident, based on human error, but everyone is being nice! This is Iran!

This on top of the backing down of both sides from the assassination of that general, seems, well... odd. Something bigger is afoot. I'm not saying it's bad. Maybe it's good, but there's more to the story.

Just sayin'



Iran’s military announced early Saturday that it had accidentally shot down a Ukrainian passenger jet, blaming human error because of what it called the plane’s sharp, unexpected turn toward a sensitive military base.

After days of tension since the jet crashed near Tehran on Wednesday, the same day that Iranian missiles struck American bases in Iraq, the admission was a stunning reversal. Iran initially maintained that mechanical issues had brought the Boeing airliner down, killing all 176 people aboard.

“The Islamic Republic of Iran deeply regrets this disastrous mistake,” President Hassan Rouhani said on Twitter soon after the military released its statement. He offered condolences to the victims’ families and said investigations were underway. The military said the person responsible would face legal consequences.

International pressure had been building on Iran to take responsibility. American and allied intelligence assessments had already concluded that Iranian missiles brought down the plane, Ukraine International Airlines Flight 752, most likely by accident, amid the heightened tensions between the United States and Iran.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/10/world/middleeast/missile-iran-plane-crash.html
 
Nobody really wants a war. And a war wouldn’t bring the plane back. Not sure what you are asking or suggesting. I am glad they owned up to it. I believe it was an accident. They must have been hair trigger expecting our planes after they launched their missiles. No point in punishing them for telling the truth. We should encourage that.
 
For 40 years Iran has sponsored terrorism -often against the US- through its proxies. The most we had done in response in that 40 years was to sometimes bomb the proxies. Killing some goat-herders in another country was not exactly costly to Iran.

A week ago that all changed when the second most powerful man in Iran was blown to bits by a US missile.

Trump has repeatedly said he does not want war and wants to disengage from the wars we are in, but he has also said he would go all-out (no "proportionate response") to win if he was forced into a fight.

When Iran got their general back in a soggy kleenex in a matchbox, the mullahs apparently decided Trump might be a different sort of American President.

Iran saved face in the Arab world with their missile attacks on the bases in Iraq. Now Iran is saving face with non-Arab countries concerning the destroyed airliner.
 
They can put a missile on a building. We can put one in a car window, anywhere in the world. I'm guessing they are starting to realize we changed the rules of this game. I don't think Trump want's to go boots on the ground. And I don't think Iran wants to continue this Tit for Tat missile trading. If their #2 is fair game, the rest of them are too.
 
Jeppo said:
Trump will get the blame for the airliner. If he hadn’t taken out their thug, they wouldn’t have had their fingers on the missile triggers.
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Be a use everything is Trumps fault! The Dems want power back so bad they will and do say anything hoping something sticks! Trouble is, they have no idea how to govern once they are back in power. They have no idea how to keep America running where people have jobs, healthcare and freedom. They want to tax the hell out of our citizens and businesses and ram strict laws down our throats , all the while saying , “Vote for us again! Only we know how to make your life hell and have you thank us for it!”
 
HMP said:
Didnt we accidentally shoot down one of their passenger jets back in the 80s?
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Yeah, and the excuse is very similar. It's kind of like 2 guys arguing in a bar with their guns out. Even without an intention to kill, the risk of someone getting shot is significant.
 
HMP said:
Didnt we accidentally shoot down one of their passenger jets back in the 80s?
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Yes the u.s navy shot down a Iranian passenger plane in the mid 80s Iran has used this fact in their hate mongering against the u.s
Just look up Iranian air flight 655.
 
drypowder said:
Yeah, and the excuse is very similar. It's kind of like 2 guys arguing in a bar with their guns out. Even without an intention to kill, the risk of someone getting shot is significant.
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One source said the current event was an issue with their information/command and control structure or lack thereof.

Hammer21b said:
Be a use everything is Trumps fault! The Dems want power back so bad they will and do say anything hoping something sticks! Trouble is, they have no idea how to govern once they are back in power. They have no idea how to keep America running where people have jobs, healthcare and freedom. They want to tax the hell out of our citizens and businesses and ram strict laws down our throats , all the while saying , “Vote for us again! Only we know how to make your life hell and have you thank us for it!”
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Reminds me of a line out of a protest song, Tax the rich till they're rich no more." And where will the money come from then, Mr. Shortsighted??
 
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The Airbus never answered the ten hails before the USS Vincennes fired.

Some individual(s) placed a pipe bomb in the minivan of the wife of the Commander.
She was able to escape the vehicle March 10, 1988.
 
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S4f said:
Yes the u.s navy shot down a Iranian passenger plane in the mid 80s Iran has used this fact in their hate mongering against the u.s
Just look up Iranian air flight 655.
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So they can't pay that card anymore since they did it too, right?
 
Jeppo said:
Trump will get the blame for the airliner. If he hadn’t taken out their thug, they wouldn’t have had their fingers on the missile triggers.
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that’s exactly what the Democrat strategists were saying yesterday “orange man bad, orange man to blame. Orange man shot down plane, orange man started fires down under”

They really were saying that he is to blame for the airliner and should be held accountable (for the Australian fires) for pulling out of the climate accord.
 
charliedeltajuliet said:
that’s exactly what the Democrat strategists were saying yesterday “orange man bad, orange man to blame. Orange man shot down plane, orange man started fires down under”
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For Democrats, Trump seems to have caused more ill in the world than Adam. :rolleyes:
 
So Iran unintentionally fired a missile?
Or Iran unintentionally hit one of their own planes with a missile?
Or Iran unintentionally missed one of our planes and instead hit theirs?
Or Iran unintentionally admitted they fired the missile that took down their own planes?
Or Iran unintentionally got caught shooting down their own plane so they could blame the US for it?

One are all of the above?
 
It's looking like this is what happened:

SAM operator cycles radar on and off as SOP. Cycles it on and sees a target heading in his direction. Calls his commander but doesn't get a response. In a panic, he fires two missiles.

737 explodes then crashes.

The 737 takeoff was delayed either 30 or 60 minutes, I can't remember which. But it may have been a contributing factor.
 
Here’s a video from a guy I’ve been watching for a few years on YouTube. He’s got some cool shooting videos and sometimes does videos on US history and religion. I

This video is on the plane that was just shot down and on a couple other planes that have been in the news in the not too distant past. Thought some of you guys might like it so here it is.
 
Dale Flinchum said:
Both sides had their guns out and either could have shot down the plane. Lucky for us Iran pulled the trigger. What irks me is the commander of the Ukrainian plane took off without the apparent approval of both sides, nobody walks out into the middle of the street during a gunfight yet this person chose to just that. People put their faith in those that fly these aircraft and too many times they pay with their lives.
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What? Tehran is in the middle of Iran (east-to-west); we weren't shooting that plane down. The pilot received clearance to take off on a scheduled flight, and did so. As did other pilots on other scheduled flights out of Tehran that day.

This is in no way, shape, or form, an error by the flight crew.
 
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Give my a break.

The old radar scope was in auto mode and launched.

What do you expect from a bunch of goat humpers.
 
Dale Flinchum said:
So after the 9/11 incident the grounding of all civilian aircraft was a complete waste of time and money, money yes, time no. Nobody in their right mind flies civilian aircraft in a hot missile zone.
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Planes were not grounded.

Planes had been flying in and out of Tehran all day.

The flight crew did nothing wrong.

This is the first I've seen of the "blame the flight crew" narrative, but it's probably not the last. It's likely an attempt to shift blame away from the Iranian military, and they are the ones that f'ed up on a colossal scale.
 
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Dale Flinchum said:
On 9/11 our country had the foresight to ground all civilian aircraft due to our willingness to shoot down any flying object in our airspace and wisely so. Nobody flies civilian aircraft in a hot missile zone. Those folks on the Ukrainian aircraft would have been alive and well anywhere on this earth if, and a big if, the pilot would have kept the aircraft grounded until complete assurance was given that the missile batteries were on complete stand down. No airport that I know of has the ability to coordinate flights between missile launches.
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Wow. They took off "between missile launches"? How many SAMs do you think were fired that day?

(Hint: the number is two, and they both hit the 737.)

You seem to be disconnected from the facts presented so far, so I'm going to stop replying to you.
 
Vyntage said:
Planes were not grounded.

Planes had been flying in and out of Tehran all day.

The flight crew did nothing wrong.

This is the first I've seen of the "blame the flight crew" narrative, but it's probably not the last. It's likely an attempt to shift blame away from the Iranian military, and they are the ones that f'ed up on a colossal scale.
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Well we have moved on to "Blame the Americans!" And this is from OUR citizens! ANYTHING that Iran does is not accidental! If it was, you'd have seen the execution of the missile battery commander and the guy that pulled the trigger on YouTube!
 
Vyntage said:
Wow. They took off "between missile launches"? How many SAMs do you think were fired that day?

(Hint: the number is two, and they both hit the 737.)

You seem to be disconnected from the facts presented so far, so I'm going to stop replying to you.
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Let it go. Don't feed the trolls.
 
Dale Flinchum said:
On 9/11 our country had the foresight to ground all civilian aircraft due to our willingness to shoot down any flying object in our airspace and wisely so. Nobody flies civilian aircraft in a hot missile zone. Those folks on the Ukrainian aircraft would have been alive and well anywhere on this earth if, and a big if, the pilot would have kept the aircraft grounded until complete assurance was given that the missile batteries were on complete stand down. No airport that I know of has the ability to coordinate flights between missile launches.
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Actually, there was a discussion that many airlines did ground their planes or follow no fly zone guidance by the FAA, but the Ukrainian airline did not. It was the airline's responsibility, not the flight crew's. You seem to be leaping to the conclusion that the flight crew disobeyed a grounding order, based on "common sense", but I don't believe they received such an order.


Iranian Brigadier general Amir Ali Hajizadeh of the IRGC Aerospace Defense stated a missile operator in Parand had acted independently, mistaking the plane for a US cruise missile and had shot it down. The Tor M1 missile blew up next to the plane, causing it to crash. Hajizadeh had recommended a no-fly zone over Tehran that night, in response to fears of US retaliation in the wake of Iranian rocket strikes on US bases in Iraq, but for reasons unclear this was ignored.


Air traffic
The disaster occurred amid a heightened political crisis between the United States and Iran in the Persian Gulf, hours after the Iranian military launched 15 missiles towards US military airbases in Iraq in response to the Baghdad International Airport airstrike by the United States on 3 January, which killed Iranian general Qasem Soleimani. In response, the US Federal Aviation Administration, in a NOTAM, banned all American civil aircraft from flying over Iran, Iraq, the Gulf of Oman and the Persian Gulf. Although the US FAA's NOTAM is not binding on non-American airlines, many airlines take it into consideration when making safety decisions, especially after the downing of Malaysian Airlines Flight 17 in 2014.A number of airlines, including Austrian Airlines, Singapore Airlines, KLM, Air France, Air India, SriLankan Airlines and Qantas began to reroute their flights. Airlines in the region, such as Lufthansa, Emirates, Flydubai, and Turkish Airlines cancelled some flights to airports in Iran and Iraq and would make further operational changes as necessary.

Ukraine International Airlines (UIA) suspended flights to Tehran indefinitely shortly after the incident, with flights after the day of the crash no longer available. The suspension also complied with a prohibition issued by State Aviation Administration of Ukraine for flights in Iran's airspace for all Ukrainian registration aircraft. Since the crash, additional airlines, Air Astana and SCAT Airlines also re-routed flights that overflew Iran. This followed a recommendation by the Kazakhstan Ministry of Industry and Infrastructure Development, issued to Kazakhstani air companies after the crash, to avoid flying over Iran airspace and/or to cancel flights to Iran. Air Canada rerouted its Toronto-Dubai flight to fly over Egypt and Saudi Arabia instead of Iraq.

Note, most of these changes occurred after the incident.
 
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Based on the responses to my thread it's obvious to me that my statements are not being interpreted as I intended so rather than continue an attempt to clarify my statements I will try to delete my posts on this thread, sorry for the confusion.
 
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