Breaking in a Semi-auto?

I'm relatively new to firearms. Been shooting other people's guns for years, but just recently I was able to free up funds to start buying my own. You can see through my profile that it's been about 3 years. One thing has bothered me about the industry in general, handguns in particular.

I read a lot of reviews of handguns that I either want to buy or just lust after. It seems like the more expensive they are, the more reports of FTF (or whatever the latter "F" may be, let's just call it function for now) when they're new. These reports are often followed by reviewers that say: "Well there are some bad reviews, but you gotta break these things in"

I get that a tight action is good. But if I have to put 1000 through it to make it better, that's a decent chunk of change depending on caliber. I'm already paying a premium for the engraving and now I'm paying a little more to make it work.

I buy affordable firearms that have good reviews. My most expensive to date is a Canik TP9 SF back when they first came out for $479. That pistol has never missed a beat. There was no break in, the trigger is fantastic, and it's way more accurate than I am.

Otherwise, I'm buying used S&W or new Rugers. The Rugers are flawless too, I might ad.

Anyway, am I the only person who expects a $500+ firearm to just work out of the box? I'm an auto technician by trade and if I bought a ridiculously expensive tool from Snap-on, that SOB better work the first time and every time after. Apparently it's different with these tools.

I am wit choo...….I will not spend time to Make a New gun work.

Tucci454 said:

Anyway, am I the only person who expects a $500+ firearm to just work out of the box?

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I also expected my new 1911 to just "go"....and it did, for about 1,000 rounds. Then the "issues" began. By 5,000 rounds, it was toast! lol.

I often wonder if some guns are just not supposed to shoot that many thousands of rounds!

To me, a gun is just getting going well at 1,000 rounds, and nicely broken in at 5,ooo! Some guns are finicky, I guess....or I'm a crazy dreamer. lol.

Not being snarky, but automobiles have published break-in periods too.

My personal (limited) experience has been that it is the springs in the magazines that need “exercise” more so than the firearm.

Like you, I had gone through a several year period without shooting, and had never been able to purchase new. The magazine break ins truly did help my Beretta Px4, and now I just routinely break in all my new mags.

All I do is fully load them, let them sit overnight, unload them in the morning, reload them before going to bed. I think 3 nights is adequate, but if I’m not going to the range I’ll do it for up to 7.

Then I shoot some heavier grain ammo for the first couple of magazines (like 147 grain 9mm instead of 124 grain). This was a recommendation from the people at Landon Tactical and I honestly have no idea if it helps or not.

I've owned a bunch of guns. The only one that needed to be broken in was the Kahr PM9 with a couple hundred rounds.
You won't need to worry about it with a Glock or CZ.

They should work for the most part...… but I can accept a malfunction or 2 within the first couple of hundred rounds or so. I've had it happen, but nothing major..... One thing that helps is to field strip, clean off any preservative such as cosmoline, and lubricate the moving parts. If you get a lot of malfunctions after cleaning and lubricating...… there is something is probably wrong with the gun. I think Kimber used to tell people not to bother them for returns on new guns until it has had a break in period of 500 rounds. Most of the time that was BS...… there was something wrong with the gun.
On some new guns....especially one with tighter fitting parts...….
During the break in period...… field strip, do a basic cleaning of friction areas ( such as the slide to rail fit) and lubricate a lot, like before every range session or once every 50-100 rounds. However, if the gun isn't giving you any problems, not such a big deal.

Tucci454 said:

Anyway, am I the only person who expects a $500+ firearm to just work out of the box? I'm an auto technician by trade and if I bought a ridiculously expensive tool from Snap-on, that SOB better work the first time and every time after. Apparently it's different with these tools.

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Totally agree, I tell anyone who will listen that if your gun malfunctions because you use it... get a new gun. People excuse shoddy equipment because they don't want to admit they made a mistake buying the gun. For many these guns are big investments and can save your life, they need to just work plain and simple.

V

Most guns that need a mfg break in is around 200 rounds. I think the last Kimber I bought might have been 300 rounds, but I only had 2 failures in the first 100 rounds in the Kimber. I try to put at least 200 rounds of fmj then 50-100 rounds of carry ammo in a new gun before I carry it just so it is proven reliable and I am proficient with it.

Think about the metal shavings in a car's first oil change. Then consider the speed, temperature and pressure of an operating semi-auto firearm that is brand new. If all the parts were finely polished the weapon would cost twice or more as much. A few small pieces of metal in a tool with tolerances down to 0.000' ths inch may cause a hiccup initially. Shoot the crap out of any new gun. Learn it and make friends with it. If it works, you got a new friend if not there are several million more out there.

I had an M&P Bodyguard 380. According to common lore, the recommended break-in period before normal performance is around a million rounds.

Les Baer recommends 500 rounds before you clean it. HK MP5s should be broken in with NATO 9mm for the first 250+ rounds IIRC. Both of those are well over the $500 mark. In fact most of the time they are over the $1500 mark.

Something built as loose as a Canik, Ruger, (most) S&Ws or Glock should run right out of the box without issue.

I’ve never owned a gun that required a “break-in”. All mine have ran right out of the box. Here’s another thing some might find crazy......I don’t take a new gun home and clean/lube it before going to the range either.

Derek8404 said:

I’ve never owned a gun that required a “break-in”. All mine have ran right out of the box. Here’s another thing some might find crazy......I don’t take a new gun home and clean/lube it before going to the range either.

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I clean them because a lot of manufacturers put oils on them that are better at protecting the firearm in long term storage vs protecting it during shooting. I know for a fact the oil that Sigs ship in is not a gun oil but a finish preservative. People have galled their alum rails because they shot the gun without cleaning it and properly lubing it.

wvsig said:

I clean them because a lot of manufacturers put oils on them that are better at protecting the firearm in long term storage vs protecting it during shooting. I know for a fact the oil that Sigs ship in is not a gun oil but a finish preservative. People have galled their alum rails because they shot the gun without cleaning it and properly lubing it.

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oh I’m well aware of all that. Just doesn’t really concern me.

Bahamadon said:

Think about the metal shavings in a car's first oil change. Then consider the speed, temperature and pressure of an operating semi-auto firearm that is brand new. If all the parts were finely polished the weapon would cost twice or more as much. A few small pieces of metal in a tool with tolerances down to 0.000' ths inch may cause a hiccup initially. Shoot the crap out of any new gun. Learn it and make friends with it. If it works, you got a new friend if not there are several million more out there.

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A semi auto firearm isn't even close to what an modern combustion engine experiences. FYI, if I can see actual metal shavings in a car's first oil change, it's going back to the dealer. If you mean the microscopic bits of metal that collect on the tip of the drain plug, then yes. That's normal. The engine works though. As should any new firearm right out of the box.

wvsig said:

Les Baer recommends 500 rounds before you clean it. HK MP5s should be broken in with NATO 9mm for the first 250+ rounds IIRC. Both of those are well over the $500 mark. In fact most of the time they are over the $1500 mark.

Something built as loose as a Canik, Ruger, (most) S&Ws or Glock should run right out of the box without issue.

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But those "break in" guns you mention still work out of the box.

@Geezer and I put 1,200 + rounds through a $150 SCCY purposely without cleaning anywhere along the way. It worked Purrfekly! At 1,200 and some it became slow to go into battery. Took it apart cleaned and lubed it and because so many had seen it through this test, it sold in 5 minutes.

Derek8404 said:

oh I’m well aware of all that. Just doesn’t really concern me.

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I have seen guns where people shortened the life on their alloy rails because they did not clean the gun an lube it properly. Seems stupid to me not to take 5 minutes to field strip a gun wipe it down and relube it before you shoot it. For me it is also the time that I properly inspect the gun looking for issues or defects. Clearly YMMV

i’ve never done it but i’ve heard a bunch of HK snobs talk about the 124 NATO break in.

i’ve had at least a dozen HKs and never had an issue. i usually shoot cheap 115gr ammo

i’ve also heard kahr recommend 200 rounds of break in

I see both sides of the issue and I don't disagree that a gun ought to just work - especially if it's a defensive arm. I have, however, owned quite a few Kahr handguns and they DO require something of a break-in period. Once they have been put through that break-in though, they just work. I trust my K9 with my life every day.

I would really challenge someone to tell me by shooting if a semi-auto was "broken in" or new. No close inspection of slide, rails, ramp, etc., just put a mag in and shoot it.

This being a gun with 10K rounds through it, cleaned and lubed, vs. a gun with 50 rounds through it, cleaned and lubed.

Pink_Vapor said:

I've owned a bunch of guns. The only one that needed to be broken in was the Kahr PM9 with a couple hundred rounds.
You won't need to worry about it with a Glock or CZ.

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Same deal for me except with a Kahr CM9. I won't buy a gun that requires a break-in period. It's 2020, not 1920.

vp9c said:

i’ve never done it but i’ve heard a bunch of HK snobs talk about the 124 NATO break in.

i’ve had at least a dozen HKs and never had an issue. i usually shoot cheap 115gr ammo

i’ve also heard kahr recommend 200 rounds of break in

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I believed the NATO story. PSA and Wally World used to sell it at 18 or less cents so it wasn’t a big deal to run a few boxes thru. As I recall, the VP9 manual even references NATO loads, no?

Jeppo said:

I believed the NATO story. PSA and Wally World used to sell it at 18 or less cents so it wasn’t a big deal to run a few boxes thru. As I recall, the VP9 manual even references NATO loads, no?

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Basically they are saying run some +p ammo to the gun cycles properly because too much of the standard 9mm is underloaded. Once the gun has cycled properly for 200+ rounds even the weak stuff will run. It’s like breaking in an older car engine.

wvsig said:

I have seen guns where people shortened the life on their alloy rails because they did not clean the gun an lube it properly. Seems stupid to me not to take 5 minutes to field strip a gun wipe it down and relube it before you shoot it. For me it is also the time that I properly inspect the gun looking for issues or defects. Clearly YMMV

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I’m curious, how exactly did you measure this “shortened the life”? Pictures please. (Spoiler alert. I don’t believe you)

Derek8404 said:

I’m curious, how exactly did you measure this “shortened the life”? Pictures please. (Spoiler alert. I don’t believe you)

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If you compromise the anodizing on an alloy frame rail like Sigs have you have shortened the life of that frame. There is no way around it. Especially if it is on the underside of the rails.

Not going to argue with you about it. Not breaking down a gun and inspecting it before you shoot it is just stupid. It does not matter if it is NIB or used. Why not take 5 minutes to properly prep a gun before shooting?

You do you...

wvsig said:

If you compromise the anodizing on an alloy frame rail like Sigs have you have shortened the life of that frame. There is no way around it. Especially if it is on the underside of the rails.

Not going to argue with you about it. Not breaking down a gun and inspecting it before you shoot it is just stupid. It does not matter if it is NIB or used. Why not take 5 minutes to properly prep a gun before shooting?

You do you...

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thats all fine and great, but, give me some specific examples of guns you’ve “seen” that have been worn down. Also tell me exactly how you are measuring this.............

Jeppo said:

I believed the NATO story. PSA and Wally World used to sell it at 18 or less cents so it wasn’t a big deal to run a few boxes thru. As I recall, the VP9 manual even references NATO loads, no?

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Jeppo said:

View attachment 188268

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it definitely says it and some folks think that means ONLY use the NATO stuff forever....

i’ve never seen good data that shows this is necessary. there are certainly a bunch of threads about it on HK Pro.

certainly won’t hurt!!! but i’m not sure it’s always needed?

vp9c said:

it definitely says it and some folks think that means ONLY use the NATO stuff forever....

i’ve never seen good data that shows this is necessary. there are certainly a bunch of threads about it on HK Pro.

certainly won’t hurt!!! but i’m not sure it’s always needed?

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I agree completely. Other than a few boxes at the beginning, I’ve shot everything other than NATO. My only single hiccup ever was one FTF on the first use of one of those cheap plastic gangster mags.

wvsig said:

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Not breaking down a gun and inspecting it before you shoot it is just stupid. It does not matter if it is NIB or used. Why not take 5 minutes to properly prep a gun before shooting?

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I follow what you're saying, but what about the guy or girl who doesn't know a whole lot about firearms, and is buying their first gun, and, being that they're spending $500.00+ for their gun, figures it should be gtg out of the box. They are not on forums and such, and maybe even don't know how to break down their new gun to clean it. It's easy to say, well, they need to learn their chosen platform, how to clean it, know it up and down, etc. And while I don't disagree, it's not like that for a lot of people. I have a guy that I use to train Kali with, who contacted me the other day wanting to learn proper shooting techniques, how to clean, etc. He's had a Shield 9 and a Ruger SR22, and has never cleaned them, but has shot them both. We know better, and it's easy to say everybody should too, but I've seen it the other way with a lot of people.

Familiarization/sight-in/practice aside, when I buy a firearm, I believe it's a reasonable expectation that I should be able to take the MFer outta the box, load it and have it do what I need it to do.

I expect the manufacturer tested the new firearm and it should be ready to go right out of the box when I get it.

I do NOT trust the manufacturer to have tested the firearm with every possible ammo. When I get it, I expect that there may be issues with some ammo and like to shoot many different manufacturer's ammo with different bullet weights to find out if there is any that has issues or causes malfunctions. I also do not trust that every magazine will work. This so called "break-in" is the "test phase" for me where the firearm needs to prove that it works or does not work with certain ammo and or magazines.

I am now retired but when I was employed, I made my living mostly as a "Test Engineer" making sure that stuff my employer manufactured functioned the way it was designed to function. I believe in trusting the manufacturer but also verifying that their product does what they designed it for.

All semi-auto pistols that I am aware of have springs. Typically the springs are only good for so many cycles and will need to be replaced. I typically do not shoot one single pistol that much and it may be a decade or more before I need to replace a spring or springs.

Ferrisfan said:

All I do is fully load them, let them sit overnight, unload them in the morning, reload them before going to bed. I think 3 nights is adequate, but if I’m not going to the range I’ll do it for up to 7.

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Time is not a factor with springs, There is zero difference to the spring if you compress it for a week and if you compress it for a second.

This is why "Unloading to preserve springs" does the opposite. Cycles matter.

DrPhudd said:

Time is not a factor with springs, There is zero difference to the spring if you compress it for a week and if you compress it for a second.

This is why "Unloading to preserve springs" does the opposite. Cycles matter.

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Thanks for pointing that out. It is more about having a routine to do something around the workday since I rarely have an evening to cycle them multiple times.

It’s good to know I can do it all at once if I have the time to do so.

Stick Man said:

I follow what you're saying, but what about the guy or girl who doesn't know a whole lot about firearms, and is buying their first gun, and, being that they're spending $500.00+ for their gun, figures it should be gtg out of the box. They are not on forums and such, and maybe even don't know how to break down their new gun to clean it. It's easy to say, well, they need to learn their chosen platform, how to clean it, know it up and down, etc. And while I don't disagree, it's not like that for a lot of people. I have a guy that I use to train Kali with, who contacted me the other day wanting to learn proper shooting techniques, how to clean, etc. He's had a Shield 9 and a Ruger SR22, and has never cleaned them, but has shot them both. We know better, and it's easy to say everybody should too, but I've seen it the other way with a lot of people.

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I hear you and in many ways you are correct. I think that if manufactures ship with preservative oil vs shooting oil they should state it in big bold letters on the manual. It would help people out.

Derek8404 said:

thats all fine and great, but, give me some specific examples of guns you’ve “seen” that have been worn down. Also tell me exactly how you are measuring this.............

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I don't have the examples right in front of me but when I shot a lot of Sigs and used to post over of The Sig forum lots of new shooters would get their guns and not clean them and lube them properly before shooting. They stainless steel slide would sometimes gauge and gall the rails of the frame stripping off the anodizing in as little as a range session or two. The anodizing on the rails is part of what give the alum its strength. Those guns were compromised.

At the time Bruce Gray and Flork of Apex Tactical would look at them and tell people to watch those rails because they had created a weak point in the frame. IIRC sometimes it was bad enough they recommend reanodization. Bruce and Flork when he worked for Gray Guns saw a lot of Sigs new and old. They know their stuff when it comes to Sigs.

A lot of this was happening when Sig switched over to all stainless steel slide vs folded carbon steel slides. Even the smallest burr left from the CNC machining process could gall the slide. So sometimes taking 10-15 minutes to clean inspect and lube a gun can save you some hassle. That said most people are not shooting guns enough to shoot them to failure. I personally don't have any measurements because all new and used guns that come into my possessions are field stripped cleaned and relubed before shooting.

wvsig said:

I hear you and in many ways you are correct. I think that if manufactures ship with preservative oil vs shooting oil they should state it in big bold letters on the manual. It would help people out.




I don't have the examples right in front of me but when I shot a lot of Sigs and used to post over of The Sig forum lots of new shooters would get their guns and not clean them and lube them properly before shooting. They stainless steel slide would sometimes gauge and gall the rails of the frame stripping off the anodizing in as little as a range session or two. The anodizing on the rails is part of what give the alum its strength. Those guns were compromised.

At the time Bruce Gray and Flork of Apex Tactical would look at them and tell people to watch those rails because they had created a weak point in the frame. IIRC sometimes it was bad enough they recommend reanodization. Bruce and Flork when he worked for Gray Guns saw a lot of Sigs new and old. They know their stuff when it comes to Sigs.

A lot of this was happening when Sig switched over to all stainless steel slide vs folded carbon steel slides. Even the smallest burr left from the CNC machining process could gall the slide. So sometimes taking 10-15 minutes to clean inspect and lube a gun can save you some hassle. That said most people are not shooting guns enough to shoot them to failure. I personally don't have any measurements because all new and used guns that come into my possessions are field stripped cleaned and relubed before shooting.

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I’ll continue to wait on how your measuring this.........

I have found a few of the guns I have needed a few mags of ammo to cycle properly. Most of the time when I hear someone has a problem with a new gun is they never took it apart and cleaned it before taking it to the range. A lot of manufacturers load up the preservatives that prevents guns from running properly. Taurus is really bad about loading up the stuff in their guns. Once cleaned I have never had an issue with one. Clean all of the preservatives off and then lube it up. High friction places I use grease and the light oil of the rest.
So what every you buy make sure to watch some you tube videos on how to clean it before you plan to take it to the range.

Just in from the MB Gun Show. Got a LCP in .22. Got out of the truck, loaded it and shot 2 10 round mags through it. Ran like crap through a goose. Kinda thought it would. BIG fireball in the dark!!!! Whoooeeeeeee!

BatteryOaksBilly said:

BIG fireball in the dark!!!!

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No video? Wish I had been there!