$2,000.00 AR vs. $500.00 AR

1911gobang

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Okay, I get the high speed/low drag, mall ninja thing....
And I can understand someone who makes their living shooting 3 gun competitions, and I can understand a private security contractor who carries an AR for a living. I’ve got several different rifles and the values are between $260.00 (yes...incredible deal, at the right time) and around $1,200.00. I can’t really make a discernible difference between any of them performance wise. Granted, I don’t shoot them 3,000 rounds a week, month, or even quarter, but on occasion, me and the fam will rattle off a couple thousand rounds on a Saturday afternoon, and they’re all seeing use. Not a bunch of safe queens.

So what am I missing out on with a $2,000.00 AR masterpiece? Is it comparable to an F350 XL vs a King Ranch or Platinum? Both trucks drive good and both pull a heavy-ass trailer. It’s just that the KR or Platinum trucks wrap your ass in some fine leather when pulling aforementioned trailer...


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As with all things the real low end item will not be even close to the higher end item (fit, finish, etc.). But (and there is a but...) you find that at a certain point higher cost doesn't give you higher reliability, only more options.

The above is OMO, and can be revoked at any time. :cool:
 
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IN my opinion about half of it is bragging rights. I drive an Audi, but there's a VW that's very similar and costs $10k less out there. Similarly, there's a price for quality control. There's a price for better coatings and metal treatments. There's a price for different types of barrel rifling and the different metals they are made from. There's a price for R&D if something is new or innovative. I think the $1000 mark is about the limit today for an average guy who doesn't game or fight for a living to be buying nice quality, but not be spending for the sake of spending.

I've been looking to build a gun lately and just getting quality parts together is probably going to run close to $1k.
 
I found a ton of interesting info from another forum regarding the differences between AR manufacturers. The thread is from a former DPMS employee who is openly answering questions about the AR business. According to him, many manufacturers are using the same parts/suppliers and regularly horse trade components when supplies are low. I found a ton of information in the thread, but not sure if it is OK to link here or not.
 
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When the Porsche Cayenne was introduced, it retailed for something like $40,000 more than the Volkswagen Tiguan. The single difference, according to 4wd mags I was reading at the time? The nameplate.
 
Certain components are definitely worth the price paid. With barrels, triggers, gas blocks, and hand guards you get what you pay for. Receivers, small parts, even bolts...I don't think they matter at all.
 
I found a ton of interesting info from another forum regarding the differences between AR manufacturers. The thread is from a former DPMS employee who is openly answering questions about the AR business. According to him, many manufacturers are using the same parts/suppliers and regularly horse trade components when supplies are low. I found a ton of information in the thread, but not sure if it is OK to link here or not.
I find that hard to believe considering DPMS used commercial spec reciever extensions and semi auto BCs with non MP tested bolts and their barrels weren't chrome lined nor was anything else.

I take that partially back they could've actually supplied other very low end manufacturers I suppose.

That guy was a salesperson. Im pretty sure he spent good amounts of time SELLING his brand.
 
I find that hard to believe considering DPMS used commercial spec reciever extensions and semi auto BCs with non MP tested bolts and their barrels weren't chrome lined nor was anything else.

I take that partially back they could've actually supplied other very low end manufacturers I suppose.

That guy was a salesperson. Im pretty sure he spent good amounts of time SELLING his brand.

Yeah, I'm not sure how credible the guy is, but it made for an interesting read. He talked about the rationale behind not offering chrome-lined barrels. I forgot what he said about the reasoning, 17 pages is a lot to remember
 
This video is dated (2012), but perhaps still not a waste of ~20 mins:

 
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Okay, I get the high speed/low drag, mall ninja thing....
And I can understand someone who makes their living shooting 3 gun competitions, and I can understand a private security contractor who carries an AR for a living. I’ve got several different rifles and the values are between $260.00 (yes...incredible deal, at the right time) and around $1,200.00. I can’t really make a discernible difference between any of them performance wise. Granted, I don’t shoot them 3,000 rounds a week, month, or even quarter, but on occasion, me and the fam will rattle off a couple thousand rounds on a Saturday afternoon, and they’re all seeing use. Not a bunch of safe queens.

So what am I missing out on with a $2,000.00 AR masterpiece? Is it comparable to an F350 XL vs a King Ranch or Platinum? Both trucks drive good and both pull a heavy-ass trailer. It’s just that the KR or Platinum trucks wrap your ass in some fine leather when pulling aforementioned trailer...


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Given your screen name, is there a difference between a $380 ATI 1911 and a $5,000 Cabot, or Volkmann? Same reasons. Craftsmanship, quality, quality control of parts and fitting, etc.
 
Given your screen name, is there a difference between a $380 ATI 1911 and a $5,000 Cabot, or Volkmann? Same reasons. Craftsmanship, quality, quality control of parts and fitting, etc.

Yeah, so my apologies for the “this again” thread. Did not mean to interrupt your day with contrition or repetition. I am simply trying to get a question answered. For the record, and maybe it’s because I live in a world where 1/16” tolerance is acceptable, I have 500-600 dollar 1911’s, and $2K 1911’s, and honestly, they hit steel pretty much the same....


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Yeah, so my apologies for the “this again” thread. Did not mean to interrupt your day with contrition or repetition. I am simply trying to get a question answered. For the record, and maybe it’s because I live in a world where 1/16” tolerance is acceptable, I have 500-600 dollar 1911’s, and $2K 1911’s, and honestly, they hit steel pretty much the same....


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In full contrition, I wasn't trying to have an attitude with you, at all. Totally opposite, being a connoisseur of the 1911, you understand better than most people the differences between a bottom and an upper end weapon. People who buy nothing but Glocks and polymer typically do not have the same perspective.

It's a fair question, but it seems to get beat to death every couple months.
 
Yeah, so my apologies for the “this again” thread. Did not mean to interrupt your day with contrition or repetition. I am simply trying to get a question answered. For the record, and maybe it’s because I live in a world where 1/16” tolerance is acceptable, I have 500-600 dollar 1911’s, and $2K 1911’s, and honestly, they hit steel pretty much the same....


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First, I don’t think @Chuckman meant any ill will by his comment. May have just come across that way give the limitations of text.

From a strictly utilitarian standpoint, you are correct. Both the $500 & $2k 1911 will hit steel the exact same. But which would you prefer to shoot? Why? Which would you grab if there was a bump in the night? Which has more malfunctions? Why did you spend $2k on that one 1911 rather than buying 4 of the $500 models?

There are a lot of factors that come into play when we make a purchase and as black and white and utilitarian some of us may be, we still sway from that core at times. Maybe we just like nice things with a few extra features and it’s only the higher end that offers those features. This holds true for cars, guns, bicycles, shoes, etc.

The easiest way for me to directly answer your question is when I thinking about handling my $300 PSA upper and a similarly spec’ed Aero upper that was about $500. 67% more but why?? Fit and finish wasn’t even in the same ball park. I haven’t experienced any quality issues with either so they both work just fine but I’ll spend the extra for Aero all day.
 
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I have learned a few things in my years messing with AR 15s, mainly that all manufactures can put out lemons, have defective parts, or have issues. But the amount you are willing to invest usually diminishes the chances of having an issue in the long run. I do, however, think there is a law of diminishing returns where price/quality start to become more boutique than actual performance. Rough analogy, a $1,000 AR may be twice as "long term reliable" than a $500 AR, but a $5000 AR isn't necessarily 10 times more "long term reliable".
 
I was just thinking the same thought as the OP yesterday. Almost started the same thread, again. I'm poor. Well not really poor, but not rich enough to go dropping a grand on an AR. I have three Poverty Ponies in varying flavors. They have all been extremely reliable, and looking at them from 20' away at the range you can't tell how much they cost. The only thing I'd wish for on the lower priced versions is better upper to lower fit. That's what you pay for with the higher priced stuff, apparently. All that said, I think the point of diminishing return is probably closer to $800 than $1000. If we are talking firearm only price with no extras like decent BUIS, etc.

Anyway, cheap is good for me! LONG LIVE PSA!!!
 
I’ve shot a few BCMs and own a few Aeros. Personally I think it’s hard to beat a M4E1 upper and lower with a BA barrel a nice trigger of your choice. Beyond that seems to be diminishing returns of quality compared to cost.

That being said one of my best fitting and shooting 16” rifles is built on an early Bear Creek lower. If I buy a new complete AR new anytime soon I think I’m going to buy a Barnes just to try one out.
 
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If you have an Extra $500 to spend on it, yes. If you do not, no. It's your money my friend. The BCM is better, but there is nothing wrong with the Aero.

That's the whole point. What exactly makes the BCM better?
 
Virgin tears and unicorn farts.
You will go no answer better than this one, I promise you.

This is why I like Anderson and PSA...I sit over on the side and make much pew pew while the unicorns dance and the virgins cry...

Then I cry a little...


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This is why I like Anderson and PSA...I sit over on the side and make much pew pew while the unicorns dance and the virgins cry...

Then I cry a little...


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That reminds me...my “No Beto” lower needs to come to life soon.
 
I have learned a few things in my years messing with AR 15s, mainly that all manufactures can put out lemons, have defective parts, or have issues. But the amount you are willing to invest usually diminishes the chances of having an issue in the long run. I do, however, think there is a law of diminishing returns where price/quality start to become more boutique than actual performance. Rough analogy, a $1,000 AR may be twice as "long term reliable" than a $500 AR, but a $5000 AR isn't necessarily 10 times more "long term reliable".

Indeed. I own the HK MR556 and MR762. While they function in similar fashion to the rest, the MR762 did have an undersized gas port from the factory. I spent a few hundred rounds trying to figure out what was causing the short-cycling bolt, but this was after spending thousands upon thousands to upgrade it to a G28, which included replacing some parts which could have contributed to the issue. HK's customer service was top notch and took my rifle in, inspected it and resolved the issue. Additionally, while the rifle was there, they also helped me complete the G28 conversion by removing the OEM flash hider (birdcage) that was being a pain in the *** to remove, and installed the G28 flash hider, all at no cost to me. It groups exceptionally well for a semi-auto 7.62 too. The MR556 has never had a hiccup and was the same lineage rifle that shot bin laden in the face.
 
Don't tell the "PSA/Anderson Poors" that you have to spend $700 on an AR! That Bear Creek Arsenal M4gery is just as good as your DDM4V7!!!
you should see the rusty stainless bear creek barrels sitting behind me.
 
To me ... 2/3rds of all AR parts are likely equal BUT I will argue barrel, BCG and trigger quality are worth a couple hundred extra bucks. Rails, muzzle devices, sights and such will add to cost also. Smalls such as springs, detents, etc are pretty much generic I will also add fit and finish during assembly are worth a couple hundred extra bucks. The prepping and attention to detail in assembly of say a Bear Creek Arms is not the same as say a $1K AR like a Barnes Precision or such from anodizing to fit to torque specs.
 
And most people don't need an Audi/BMW/Porsche/Chevy/Honda/any car, they need to put their f*cking phone down, pay attention, take driving lessons, and properly service their sh*tty cars.

No, you know what, no one else should have a license or drive. Let's ban driving and owning cars.
 
I have a couple of “top shelf” ARs and a few bargain bin ARs and the biggest difference between them is the high end rifles have worked 100% since they day I bought them, some of the PSA stuff has also been trouble free since the first shot but the majority of the cheaper stuff has required a little “tweaking” on my end to get them reliable enough to consider grabbing them when something goes bump in the night.

If you have the ability to build your own, you can imo assemble an accurate & reliable rifle for 1/3 of the cost of a top shelf AR, if you are not willing or incapable of building a rifle you plan on betting your life on then the extra money on a high end AR is worth it, if you’re looking for a blaster to dump a bunch of rounds through then a $500 off the shelf AR is exactly what you need, there is imo no point point in spending $1-$3k on a range blaster rifle.
 
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In order to start appreciating why an 2,000$ AR is generally superior for some, you have to be well educated and practiced on that platform. You have to do some serious shooting and maintenance with it.
It's not the right choice for most because they don't know why it is better. So it's not. Nobody buying a JP has any doubt if it is worth the money, because they have an understanding of what differentiates it from an BCM or M&P.


Assembling is where the fun is, imo.
When you start running these a lot and learn how they work, you can then pick each part, down to the pins! I love it. Perfect for a nerd control freak.
 
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