45-70?

dave421

dave421

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Anyone have a 45-70? I really want one but I’m not 100% why. Just something absurd about it to me. I’m about this close to buying one but wondering if any owners have any input. Looking at a new model Marlin GBL (yes JM is preferred but hard to find local). Is there ANY point to these rifles besides fun? I’m not a hunter but have thought about starting with my 30-30. 45-70 seems like it’s too big for deer. Any other uses? Am I just crazy and should stick to a 44 or something?


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Yeah, too big for deer around here.

But it is fun to shoot, in the "holy crap that thing kicks like a mule" kind of way. Shot a buddies. Pulled a bead on a clay bird on the 50 yard berm. Pulled the trigger and it looked like that bullet just sucked the entire clay into the berm. Nothing left. Impressive.
 
dave421 said:
Anyone have a 45-70? I really want one but I’m not 100% why. Just something absurd about it to me. I’m about this close to buying one but wondering if any owners have any input. Looking at a new model Marlin GBL (yes JM is preferred but hard to find local). Is there ANY point to these rifles besides fun? I’m not a hunter but have thought about starting with my 30-30. 45-70 seems like it’s too big for deer. Any other uses? Am I just crazy and should stick to a 44 or something?


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Well its not to big for deer for one. Its perfect for deer if you live in bear country and its pretty fun to shoot. Is a 45 muzzle loader to big for deer?
 
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Large game hunting and fun. The 405 grain bullets are real thumpers.... I wouldn't get one unless I was going to reload for it, factory ammo is usually pricy. Just so you don't load really hot rounds, brass should last a looooooonnnnnggggggg time.
 
Mightyox04 said:
Is a 45 muzzle loader to big for deer?
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I wasn’t aware there were many muzzle loaders firing 500gr projectiles at ~1800fps. Do you hunt deer here in NC with a 45-70? Everything I’ve seen so far on smaller whitetail like we have has been a result of lots of meat loss. Your experiences differ?


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45-70 can be loaded from 300 grain to 510 grain, 600-2100 fps. The 45-70 is very pleasurable at lighter, slower loads and devastating at 500+ grain 2000fps. It's one of the most versatile rounds ever made and still going strong well over 100 years.

Due to the wide range of loads, you need to understand the limits of your action and load accordingly.

I love my Gibbs 45-70 bolt gun. I wish I shot it more.
 
dave421 said:
I wasn’t aware there were many muzzle loaders firing 500gr projectiles at ~1800fps. Do you hunt deer here in NC with a 45-70? Everything I’ve seen so far on smaller whitetail like we have has been a result of lots of meat loss. Your experiences differ? I live in the center of the state.

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Yes. There is no more meat loss than there is with a 270. I use cor lokt 405 at 1300 fps according to Remington. I also like cowboy action stuff from blackhills. 1250 fps according to the box of ammo.
 
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htperry said:
45-70 can be loaded from 300 grain to 510 grain, 600-2100 fps. The 45-70 is very pleasurable at lighter, slower loads and devastating at 500+ grain 2000fps. It's one of the most versatile rounds ever made and still going strong well over 100 years.

Due to the wide range of loads, you need to understand the limits of your action and load accordingly.

I love my Gibbs 45-70 bolt gun. I wish I shot it more.
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600fps? Wow. Never seen any that low. That would be interesting.


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Mightyox04 said:
Yes. There is no more meat loss than there is with a 270. I use cor lokt 405 at 1300 fps according to Remington. I also like cowboy action stuff from blackhills. 1250 fps according to the box of ammo.
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Good to know. That means it’s a lot more versatile that I had thought. I plan to reload for it so I can definitely load to different levels. I guess the big numbers are all what popped out at me so that’s a lot more reasonable than I’d seen. Thanks for pointing that out.


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dave421 said:
Good to know. That means it’s a lot more versatile that I had thought. I plan to reload for it so I can definitely load to different levels. I guess the big numbers are all what popped out at me so that’s a lot more reasonable than I’d seen. Thanks for pointing that out.


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This. I like this because it goes to show we don't have to argue and it is nice to just have conversation.
 
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SilencerCo Hybrid is rated for 45-70...just sayin'.
 
With factory ammo in a marlin lever gun......recoil feels similar to a 30-06. Hotter loads do pack a punch.....imo
 
I use a 405 grain lead bullet in front of a near max charge of Trail Boss in an older Marlin with iron sights for deer if I am not likely to get shots much over 150 yards. It bores a nice big hole through them.


To big for deer? No regular sporting arm is really too big for deer. I shot a nice doe several years ago with my 375 H&H. She died very quickly with very little meat loss. The only real problem with the big stuff is getting a good hit at longer ranges. Know your range limitations and you can't kill deader than dead. That applies to all rifle chamberings, handguns, shotguns, archery gear, spears, and anything else you might use to hunt dear.
 
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Love my Guide Gun. It's a pussycat with the Remington 405gr load, but will definitely wake you up with Fed Fusion 300gr or the Hornady 325gr FTX.
 
rdinatal said:
Black Hole created at the local gun club. :eek: News at 11...

-R
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Yeah, something like that. Don't get me wrong, I had a big smile on my face. It's a lot of fun, you just have to like that kind of fun.
 
chiefjason said:
Yeah, something like that. Don't get me wrong, I had a big smile on my face. It's a lot of fun, you just have to like that kind of fun.
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If that sort of thing is fun, then that's a lot of it. I shot a 375 H&H with full factory hunting loads a few times - also a lot of the same kind of fun.
 
Ive had a 1895GBL for many years,,,,Its one of those guns Ill never get rid of.
I use it on deer and hogs. GREAT gun!
 
I had a ruger no 1 in that caliber with a longer-than-usual barrel. It was great fun experimenting with very weak loads (trailboss) all the way up to basically weak 458mag loads.

Very strong action; awkward stock shape. Super accurate-

If I could do it again I would have had the chamber bored to 45-90 so I could use longer / pointier bullets.
 
I saw a shirt for sale on the Marlin Forums once that said '45-70 is the only Government I need'.

I should have bought that. I've alwys wanted one for no good reason also. Probably isn't the best gun for plinking at Wake Co. with factory ammo huh?
 
CZfool68 said:
I saw a shirt for sale on the Marlin Forums once that said '45-70 is the only Government I need'.

I should have bought that. I've alwys wanted one for no good reason also. Probably isn't the best gun for plinking at Wake Co. with factory ammo huh?
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Depends on whether you want to clear out the riff-raff and have the range to yourself!
 
I was shooting my reloads out of a Marlin GG at the club. Since I also use this rifle at the Buffalo Shoots (when my daughter is using the 1874) my goal was to sight in at 100 and 200yds, mark the peep sight settings and call it a day.

When finished sighting in I had the bright idea to check POI of factory 300gr hunting loads. I wanted to see what the difference was between the two. So, I let one rip at 100yds.

I forgot what they were like. :eek: Everyone turned and looked. It was like night and day, wow. Oh yeah, the POI difference was only a couple of inches.

-R
 
@thrillhill has or had a little single shot 45-70 that was tiny and seemed to be a beast.

Wouldn't mind something like that. For when I want to hurt myself.
 
I've come close to buying a 45-70 several times, but the cost of ammo (even reloading) and the stout recoil with hotter loads always make me change my mind.

I like big bore stuff, but I can get my fix with my 44mag marlin for now.
 
My grandfather had one. Not sure of the make but my dad says it had a heavy octogon barrel. I want one but have no "real" use for one. :)
 
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Reloder-7 is great for this caliber.
 
I have shot one. Recoil is like a 30-06. I also own one that has never been out of the box. It's a Browning lever action with gold animals on each side. It's worth is in the $2500.00 plus range now so I don't think I will ever shoot it. Very beautiful gun.
 
I have a Rossi big loop lever, love it. I reload, so cost of shooting is ... bearable.
 
I had a Marlin a few years back and sold it. I was not impressed with a lot of the commercial ammo. If I recall due to our wonderful love for lawyers the major ammo mfg's load this round to minimum pressures because of there are a lot of old 45-70's out there. I think you can purchase some "hot" custom loads from various sources now. The Europeans make two kinds of ammo and they print on the box whether it is safe for older or newer guns. Due to the stupidity of your average american when it comes to firearms this would not work here. We still have morons dropping .270 ammo into 30-06 chambers...duh.

If you get one you may as well load for it. I shot a few deer with mine and recovered the bullet more than once. To me that was a bad sign. I think it was Winchester brand ammo, not really sure? It's a great gun to shoot and hunt with. If I ever get another one I'll go with one of the single shot reproductions. That would be kind of cool. ;)
 
Downeast said:
I shot a few deer with mine and recovered the bullet more than once. To me that was a bad sign.
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If none of the deer you shot survived the experience, then maybe the concern is purely hypothetical?

That said, I really enjoy reloading for this caliber and have stopped buying commercial ammo for it.
 
JimB said:
If none of the deer you shot survived the experience, then maybe the concern is purely hypothetical?

That said, I really enjoy reloading for this caliber and have stopped buying commercial ammo for it.
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What disturbed me was recovering the bullets (300 grain) from under the hide of the opposite side of entry at ranges less than 200 yards. None were DRT. I've shot deer clean through and through with my 45 caliber MZ at 150 yards using 250 grain bullets.

That is why I believe in order to get the most out of the caliber purchase a modern quality rifle and load your own ammo. I sold mine to a good friend and he is having a "blast" with it. :D
 
I always thought you didn't want the bullet to pass through, you want the bullet to expend all of it's energy inside of the body, instead of expending energy into a tree after going through. Wasting energy.

I have one of the older Guide Guns, love it, reload so I can make monster Moose killing loads or nice light deer/hog loads. Love to fill a couple cases up with some real BP and a some lead 405s and smoke the place up.
 
phideux said:
I always thought you didn't want the bullet to pass through, you want the bullet to expend all of it's energy inside of the body, instead of expending energy into a tree after going through. Wasting energy
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Kinda. You don’t want to reduce energy so that the bullet doesn’t exit, you want the bullet to expand so well that it doesn’t fully penetrate given the energy you want. That’s mostly a self defense concept though, for hunting I understand that a good blood trail comes from an exit wound.
 
I have recovered bullets from deer that were shot with such chamberings as 7mm Rem Mag, 30/06, 308, 243, 6mm Rem, 270 WSM, and other common deer hunting chamberings. Very few if any of the recovered bullets were much larger in diameter than an unexpanded 45/70 bullet. Most were considerably smaller. Recovering a bullet, to my way of thinking, does not mean the chambering is a poor performer on deer. Also, having the deer not be DRT does not mean the chambering is not appropriate. I had a deer shot through the heart with a 30/06 run about 100 yards before dropping. The heart did have a very nice hole through it when we dressed the deer.

I use big lead bullets and shoot them at short to moderate ranges with a 45/70 and have always gotten very good results. If I want DRT and do not mind spoiling some meat, I break them down by shooting a shoulder. I generally try to double lung them with a nice hole in each side to let out plenty of blood so tracking will be easier.

I have never subscribed to the idea that the ideal situation is to have all the energy expended inside the animal so that the bullet is found against the hide on the far side. The passage of a bullet through an animal can take many different paths that can encounter many different obstacles. A shot through the chest that does not touch ribs on either side is quite different from a shoulder or a spine shot that encounters lots of bones.
 
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