45 Raptor- anyone build one or buy yet?

[Oneofsix]

Mulling over if I want to venture into this caliber or not, it draws me.
I'm thinking more along the lines of a bolt gun instead of AR.
Your thoughts?

 

[baltimoreed]

Built my own uppers with a CMMG rotary bolt .45acp bcg and 8 in barrel and then a second one using another .45acp bcg and16 inch barrel. Used Stoner uppers from midway. I shot the 8 inch in a zsa match not long ago. Planning on trying the 16 inch next time. Lower is a CNC Enterprises dedicated greasegun mag lower. I’m happy with them so far. Very light and handy, easy recoil. They don’t like short nose bullets, preferring round nose. Not had any ejection issues except with a traditional lower AR narrow ejection port. The DPMS upper in the photo has since been replaced with a Stoner upper. I was able to swap the Burris from one to the other and still hit my 40 yard plate/pin rail without any problems. My Olympic Arms .45 ARs will run anything but are significantly heavier.

 

[Get Off My Lawn]

Built my own uppers with a CMMG rotary bolt .45acp bcg and 8 in barrel and then a second one using another .45acp bcg and16 inch barrel. Used Stoner uppers from midway. I shot the 8 inch in a zsa match not long ago. Planning on trying the 16 inch next time. Lower is a CNC Enterprises dedicated greasegun mag lower. I’m happy with them so far. Very light and handy, easy recoil. They don’t like short nose bullets, preferring round nose. Not had any ejection issues except with a traditional lower AR narrow ejection port. The DPMS upper in the photo has since been replaced with a Stoner upper. I was able to swap the Burris from one to the other and still hit my 40 yard plate/pin rail without any problems. My Olympic Arms .45 ARs will run anything but are significantly heavier.
View attachment 425945View attachment 425947

I think you mags come up a bit short.
45ACP & 45 Raptor

*edit*
I trusted a web pic. The shell on the left has a rim- not a Raptor. The Raptor fits in an AR-10 style rifle & has a COAL of 2.3" vs the 45ACP at 1.275".

 

[Michael458]

I looked at the 45 Raptor some time ago, but never really paid much attention.................. A little bit of quick research this morning I see the Raptor is a 1.8 inch case, from what I can see basically a rimless 460 S&W. Shoots .452 caliber bullets. Ballistics on many of these sort of cartridges many times are stretched a bit to promote them. One such articles states some fairly extreme velocities, and quotes rated at 62000 PSI. Lets face it, .452 caliber bullets are not designed at rifle velocities, and in many cases those velocities will out run what the bullet is capable of handling at terminal impacts.......... In many cases, you won't really be able to use that stated velocity without blowing the bullets all to hell...... so what is the point? Also, I run all ARs, whether 10s or 15s at or around 55000 PSI. I believe that 62000 PSI would be hard on the guns themselves, regardless of what the cartridge might be able to produce. 62000 PSI would be fine in a stronger bolt action, or single shot such as the Ruger #1, but ARs are not designed for 62000 PSI or more............ When I exceed 55000-57000 PSI, the guns start reacting negatively to that pressures and even 65000 PSI rated brass starts to show it as well........ Maybe there is something special about these 45 Raptors that I am not aware of..... ????

And, on the flip side, I see that 450 Bushmaster is nearly the same, case length is 1.7 inches, and since both are straight walled cases, would seem to be close in case capacity other than that bit of length. 450 Bushmaster is also capable of out running some of the .452 caliber bullets in terminal performance as well............ The big difference I see is that 450 Bushmaster is readily available on many platforms, brass is more common, and not special made and or limited, even have common factory loaded ammo..........

Short story, with my limited knowledge of the two, as of today, I believe I would opt for the 450 Bushmaster instead of the Raptor version................... In all practical matters I can't see opting for the Raptor. If there is any performance advantage, and I am not sure there is with what I perceive as inflated pressures, then you would need special bullets to take advantage of any performance increase.


'

 

[baltimoreed]

oops. Pardon my french, comparing apples to watermelons. Afraid I didn’t know what caliber a Raptor was. Good luck on your potential build. Size matters, at least that’s what I’ve heard but you cant ever go wrong with a .45.

 

[Oneofsix]

I looked at the 45 Raptor some time ago, but never really paid much attention.................. A little bit of quick research this morning I see the Raptor is a 1.8 inch case, from what I can see basically a rimless 460 S&W. Shoots .452 caliber bullets. Ballistics on many of these sort of cartridges many times are stretched a bit to promote them. One such articles states some fairly extreme velocities, and quotes rated at 62000 PSI. Lets face it, .452 caliber bullets are not designed at rifle velocities, and in many cases those velocities will out run what the bullet is capable of handling at terminal impacts.......... In many cases, you won't really be able to use that stated velocity without blowing the bullets all to hell...... so what is the point? Also, I run all ARs, whether 10s or 15s at or around 55000 PSI. I believe that 62000 PSI would be hard on the guns themselves, regardless of what the cartridge might be able to produce. 62000 PSI would be fine in a stronger bolt action, or single shot such as the Ruger #1, but ARs are not designed for 62000 PSI or more............ When I exceed 55000-57000 PSI, the guns start reacting negatively to that pressures and even 65000 PSI rated brass starts to show it as well........ Maybe there is something special about these 45 Raptors that I am not aware of..... ????

And, on the flip side, I see that 450 Bushmaster is nearly the same, case length is 1.7 inches, and since both are straight walled cases, would seem to be close in case capacity other than that bit of length. 450 Bushmaster is also capable of out running some of the .452 caliber bullets in terminal performance as well............ The big difference I see is that 450 Bushmaster is readily available on many platforms, brass is more common, and not special made and or limited, even have common factory loaded ammo..........

Short story, with my limited knowledge of the two, as of today, I believe I would opt for the 450 Bushmaster instead of the Raptor version................... In all practical matters I can't see opting for the Raptor. If there is any performance advantage, and I am not sure there is with what I perceive as inflated pressures, then you would need special bullets to take advantage of any performance increase.


'

Thank you sir, exactly the type of thinking I was looking for. I hadn't really considered the bullets not being made for those velocities, even if they're a bit inflated.
I'll be guiding my thoughts in a different direction.
I tend to gravitate towards the "different" but I need to get a reality check once in a while, lol.
Thanks again!

 

[303hunter]

Thank you sir, exactly the type of thinking I was looking for. I hadn't really considered the bullets not being made for those velocities, even if they're a bit inflated.
I'll be guiding my thoughts in a different direction.
I tend to gravitate towards the "different" but I need to get a reality check once in a while, lol.
Thanks again!

Sorry I’m a bit late on this thread. @Eeyore ive got both an AR and bolt action in 450 Bushmaster that you’re welcome to try out.

 

[45 Raptor Greg]

I have one. It's pretty sick. Most powerful AR I've ever built, and I have quite a few. Smokes 458 SOCOM in power and flatter trajectory. I like that you don't compromise on mag capacity like you do on SOCOM. My only gripe is the followers and spacers for the mags. The ones out are 3D and I'm still looking for a better solution. I need to do some chronograph and media testing.
This beast will take down any game animal in North America. Easily. Ammo is out there and cheaper than SOCOM ammo by far. Bullets and brass is plentiful and I load my own.
If you want the ultimate power in an AR with ammo that won't break the bank, 45 Raptor has no equal.

 

[Michael458]

have one. It's pretty sick. Most powerful AR I've ever built, and I have quite a few. Smokes 458 SOCOM in power and flatter trajectory. I like that you don't compromise on mag capacity like you do on SOCOM. My only gripe is the followers and spacers for the mags. The ones out are 3D and I'm still looking for a better solution. I need to do some chronograph and media testing.
This beast will take down any game animal in North America. Easily. Ammo is out there and cheaper than SOCOM ammo by far. Bullets and brass is plentiful and I load my own.
If you want the ultimate power in an AR with ammo that won't break the bank, 45 Raptor has no equal.

HI Greg....... LOL... I see you like your Raptor, good for you........ on many points I agree with your assessment, I concur it kicks the crap out of 458 Socom. I had forgotten what I said on this thread way back 17-18 months ago until it was brought back up with your assessment of the Raptor.......... At that time I looked and favored the 450 Bushmaster, even not having one. Recently I converted a couple of my guns over to 450 Bushmaster, 16 inches and have made some very incredible discovery, which would also apply to your Raptor favorably.........

The biggest is Bullet Technology and choice. This can make or break any cartridge. If you get very serious about your Raptor, then there are two bullets you need to look at, that I can promise and guarantee will out perform anything else available in .452 caliber............ and just so happens in my guns shoot to the same POI out to 50 yards. The first is the 160 gr Copper Raptor from Cutting Edge Bullets, the second is 250 Copper Raptor also from CEB. With these two bullets, you can handle anything that you will encounter in North American...... I am working on a good Solid load that will back those two bullets up. Feeding the first round in the magazine is the issue, but second round down works fine, but I need way more work with that before my confidence goes up with it.......... Do not consider these bullets in the same light as you would a conventional bullet, they are not. The 160 will handle anything up to and including black bear with ease. I would use the 250s for heavier critters, brown bear and say moose........... These loads are not over pressure, I have not found anything that works better than LilGun.

On one of my guns I have a 1X Vortex Circle dot type sight, I think its called a Spitfire, point is there is no magnification, and with my eyesight I am lucky to get things to shoot properly....... I did a 50 yard test to check out POI for the three bullets and maybe get lucky enough to decide if accuracy was suitable in my guns......

At 50 yards the Maximus accuracy just was not as good as the Raptors, and perhaps it was because they are .451 and not .452????? Whatever the reason, the Raptors shot far better than I can see or shoot, and even more important the POI of those two bullets are so close that I feel very easy about pick and choosing either bullet without changing sight in....... I decided to go with the 160 Raptor for 99% of what I would need, and have a few 250s on hand to handle heavier weights...........

I sighted in with the 160s......

And just received my shipment to start laying away some ammo ............

If you get serious about your Raptor............ LOAD "RAPTORS"............ HEH HEH....

 

[Michael458]

Oh and in addition to the Raptors I like the big CEB Solid and the Lehigh Extremes, but, the issue is feeding first round out of the magazine which is a no go...... Now if you fire a round, like the Raptor, then the guns do feed the solids and lehighs there after....... or they have so far in limited testing....... this is one of the things I intend to investigate soon. I want to 100% confirm that the solids and lehighs will feed after firing a Raptor first.........

These would be extreme tools to have in your tool box to back up the Raptors............

I am not satisfied with any of the Hornady Flex tips, they are fine for shooting and plinking.

 

[Average Joe]

HI Greg....... LOL... I see you like your Raptor, good for you........ on many points I agree with your assessment, I concur it kicks the crap out of 458 Socom. I had forgotten what I said on this thread way back 17-18 months ago until it was brought back up with your assessment of the Raptor.......... At that time I looked and favored the 450 Bushmaster, even not having one. Recently I converted a couple of my guns over to 450 Bushmaster, 16 inches and have made some very incredible discovery, which would also apply to your Raptor favorably.........

The biggest is Bullet Technology and choice. This can make or break any cartridge. If you get very serious about your Raptor, then there are two bullets you need to look at, that I can promise and guarantee will out perform anything else available in .452 caliber............ and just so happens in my guns shoot to the same POI out to 50 yards. The first is the 160 gr Copper Raptor from Cutting Edge Bullets, the second is 250 Copper Raptor also from CEB. With these two bullets, you can handle anything that you will encounter in North American...... I am working on a good Solid load that will back those two bullets up. Feeding the first round in the magazine is the issue, but second round down works fine, but I need way more work with that before my confidence goes up with it.......... Do not consider these bullets in the same light as you would a conventional bullet, they are not. The 160 will handle anything up to and including black bear with ease. I would use the 250s for heavier critters, brown bear and say moose........... These loads are not over pressure, I have not found anything that works better than LilGun.

On one of my guns I have a 1X Vortex Circle dot type sight, I think its called a Spitfire, point is there is no magnification, and with my eyesight I am lucky to get things to shoot properly....... I did a 50 yard test to check out POI for the three bullets and maybe get lucky enough to decide if accuracy was suitable in my guns......

At 50 yards the Maximus accuracy just was not as good as the Raptors, and perhaps it was because they are .451 and not .452????? Whatever the reason, the Raptors shot far better than I can see or shoot, and even more important the POI of those two bullets are so close that I feel very easy about pick and choosing either bullet without changing sight in....... I decided to go with the 160 Raptor for 99% of what I would need, and have a few 250s on hand to handle heavier weights...........

I sighted in with the 160s......

And just received my shipment to start laying away some ammo ............

If you get serious about your Raptor............ LOAD "RAPTORS"............ HEH HEH....

Excellent information, as usual, @Michael458! Thanks for posting. Also outstanding shooting sir!

 

[cjcullom]

I just got a 16" 45 Raptor upper and was tickled to find this thread on a search. Reckon I should have known this cartridge would be here with all the other great info and peeps.
I'll be looking for more info on this round/AR and many thanks to all who posted.
R

 

[Dan0311]

I know exactly zero about this cartridge, other than what I have read here. What are the advantages of the 45 Raptor AR over a .308 AR?

Thanks.

 

[cjcullom]

It looks like 45-70 levels of power in a .308 cartridge. 160gr --- 550gr bullets for range of use including subs. From what I have read its about 30% more thumper that the big bore Ar15 offerings. As far as Raptor vs .308 Winchester I thinks it quite a significant more energy dump into target.
R

 

[Average Joe]

I know exactly zero about this cartridge, other than what I have read here. What are the advantages of the 45 Raptor AR over a .308 AR?

Thanks.

Good option for states that only allow straight wall cartridges for hunting.