5 Houston police officers shot.

What are the guide lines that determine a no knock vs knock warrant?

Generally the persons record of violent crimes and the presence of weapons. I've personally seen 2 in 17 years.
one was a gun trafficker that had been under federal surveillance. The guy had driven a trunk load of stolen guns to NY in exchange for 2 kilos of cocaine. They had tracked him back from NY and hit him and the house as he got out of the car. He was about 5 steps from car and started to jump to the car where he had a Glock 22 and Ak but he gave up. Inside the house it was pretty stocked out with guns AR,AK multiple hunting rifles and hand guns. In the end it turned out well for everyone. The guy told the officers if he wasn't hung in between he wouldn't have given up. I had known the guy for about 12 years he was violent and smart in the criminal world. I first met him at 12 in a group home where he had beaten another kid for not paying for his pot.
 
Were any drug tests done on the bodies of the deceased to see if they were users?
Is that relevant? That's finding a reason to blame the victims for their own wrongful deaths.
Yeah, we killed them due to our complicit error. We liked and made up stuff, but we later figured out they were "bad" people, so it's ok. We're going to justify it, after the fact.
 
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Is that relevant? That's finding a reason to blame the victims for their own wrongful deaths.
Yeah, we killed them due to our complicit error. We liked and made up stuff, but we later figured out they were "bad" people, so it's ok. We're going to justify it, after the fact.
It's very relevant, cause what if there are no drugs in their system at all... Very telling IMO, but for the sake of the argument. I almost asked the same question.
 
In this day and age... Nothing is a suprise anymore. The Truth... Is just that! No matter how painful it may be. I WILL SPEAK TRUTH! Have I sinned against my God? Yes. Have I asked my God to forgive me? Yes. People are inherently evil, understanding this. I put my Life in Gods hands. Not government! This world has givin itself over to evil. If those who seek out my death( because of Truth) wish to persue me, just because I have spoken the Truth. Then so be it. It would be very sobering if EVERYONE else could be honest. I am not perfect by no means, but for others to sit back a assume they are, is utterly absurd to me. "For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against powers, principalities, spiritual wickedness in high places." I do not fear flesh and blood. I fear the One who has the power to destroy the living soul. The ultimate Judge of man will once again walk this earth, and His judgments are just and true. So... If someone decided to all of the sudden to disect every part of my life, because of words. I have done my job. "For in the last days, they will deliver you up to the courts, persecute you, murder you for my names sake." Jesus Christ my Lord and savior. Not government.
I have no clue what you're on about.
 
I have no clue what you're on about.
It was your quote"Look at me" and "don't be surprised when they look at every part of you". Were you not referring to me?I felt as if it was a veiled threat from law enforcement. Which I may be wrong, but I think you are.
 
You think I am what?
What I'm talking about is common sense. If you try to get noticed you better not be rolling dirty.
 
Is that relevant? That's finding a reason to blame the victims for their own wrongful deaths.
Yeah, we killed them due to our complicit error. We liked and made up stuff, but we later figured out they were "bad" people, so it's ok. We're going to justify it, after the fact.

Yes it's relevant. The no knock was obtained by sketchy info from an informant, or maybe outright lying. LE claimed they were raiding a big time heroin dealer, but all they came up with is a small quantity of pot/cocaine. Since their means of obtaining the warrant are doubtful, that brings up the possibility that the small quantities found were planted "throw down" bags. If neither of the deceased had any drugs in their system, it makes the probability of planted evidence a lot stronger.

The PD hasn't released toxicology results for the deceased, which is pretty telling.

I wasn't blaming the victims at all.
 
It was your quote"Look at me" and "don't be surprised when they look at every part of you". Were you not referring to me?I felt as if it was a veiled threat from law enforcement. Which I may be wrong, but I think you are.

I don't think he was directing that towards you specifically. Just at all the criminals that do stupid stuff like putting 20k in upgrades to their 1985 cutlass supreme. But don't have a job.
 
Yes it's relevant. The no knock was obtained by sketchy info from an informant, or maybe outright lying. LE claimed they were raiding a big time heroin dealer, but all they came up with is a small quantity of pot/cocaine. Since their means of obtaining the warrant are doubtful, that brings up the possibility that the small quantities found were planted "throw down" bags. If neither of the deceased had any drugs in their system, it makes the probability of planted evidence a lot stronger.

The PD hasn't released toxicology results for the deceased, which is pretty telling.

I wasn't blaming the victims at all.
Wow you've gone from a cop that cut corners trying to get someone he thought was dirty straight to Alonzo Harris!
training_day_ifakhx.jpg


Cutting corners is bad and falsifying a warrant application is criminal but thinking he just picked a house at random for someone to frame is ridiculous.
 
Wow you've gone from a cop that cut corners trying to get someone he thought was dirty straight to Alonzo Harris!
training_day_ifakhx.jpg


Cutting corners is bad and falsifying a warrant application is criminal but thinking he just picked a house at random for someone to frame is ridiculous.

Weren't you telling us just a couple days ago how absolutely ridiculous it was to think that the warrant was obtained with false information?
 
My question would be why were these people targeted or was it just a random house?

It's not a great question but I would want to know why them.
 
Early on in the reporting I read that what triggered interest in this house was a complaint that someone called in saying their daughter was doing drugs at this house.

A couple days ago, when the information in the warrant started unravelling I read an article that said that call was now believed to be the dead woman's mother calling because her daughter was doing drugs (presumably the personal use amounts of weed and coke found).

So if THAT is true then you have a mother reporting her daughter for drug use that now allegedly through falsification of warrant affidavits has been conflated and escalated to dealing heroin resulting in an unnecessary no knock home invasion with two deaths, five injured officers and at least one career ruined with possible and very much deserved prison time. (Assuming what is now being alleged regarding the warrant is true.)

End. The. Drug. War.....
 
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It would be more surprising that there wasn't weed found in these residences. It's a drug house after all, they made buys there.

As far as reporting it, the media always asks if there were drugs found and the cops answer the question. The media decides what to report.
Everyone except the police say this statement is wholly inaccurate. Even the evidence the police "found" don't support the argument that he residence was a "drug house."

Oh, my bad.

You just said with certainty that the police bought drugs at the location, that it was obviously a drug house......

......on multiple occasions.

My apologies for misrepresenting your position.
 
Oh, my bad.

You just said with certainty that the police bought drugs at the location, that it was obviously a drug house......

......on multiple occasions.

My apologies for misrepresenting your position.
Apology accepted.
 
Holy crap 58 year old daughter. Well ain't that a kick in the teeth.
At 58 it’s safe to say the mother is probably pushing 80. At that age mental faculties can decline. The mother probably didn’t like the boyfriend and got things all twisted in her head. Then filtered it through the lens of what policing was like when she was young and put 2 and 1 together, came up with 7 and thought making a call to the cops would be a good idea. Ok, that’s an exaggeration, but I can see those thoughts getting distorted in someone whose elderly’s head.
 
Generally the persons record of violent crimes and the presence of weapons. I've personally seen 2 in 17 years.
one was a gun trafficker that had been under federal surveillance. The guy had driven a trunk load of stolen guns to NY in exchange for 2 kilos of cocaine. They had tracked him back from NY and hit him and the house as he got out of the car. He was about 5 steps from car and started to jump to the car where he had a Glock 22 and Ak but he gave up. Inside the house it was pretty stocked out with guns AR,AK multiple hunting rifles and hand guns. In the end it turned out well for everyone. The guy told the officers if he wasn't hung in between he wouldn't have given up. I had known the guy for about 12 years he was violent and smart in the criminal world. I first met him at 12 in a group home where he had beaten another kid for not paying for his pot.

Are the guide lines federal, state, or agency by agency? No knock warrant should have some very strict federal guide lines to be followed. With out spending the time and man power to conduct proper surveillance, there should be not be a no knock warrant.

It would be interesting to see the number of no knocks that are done, and to see how many had the quantity of drugs and guns to justify the it's use.
 
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Are the guide lines federal, state, or agency by agency? No knock warrant should have some very strict federal guide lines to be followed.

What jurisdiction does the federal government have determining how a no knock warrant should be served by state or local authorities? I’m not a fan of no knock warrants, but when they should be used by state and local authorities is a state and local issue.
 
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What are the guide lines that determine a no knock vs knock warrant?

Probability of evidence being destroyed with drugs being the worst, as they can be flushed and gone forever would warrant a no knock. A regular warrant that requires a knock and announce would be for things that can't be easily destroyed.
 
What jurisdiction does the federal government have determining how a no knock warrant should be served by state or local authorities? I’m not a fan of no knock warrants, but when they should be used by state and local authorities is a state and local issue.

Probably that pesky thing called the constitution would give the feds jurisdiction if we can get a ruling that says invading someone's home based on a tattletale and executing them and their dog over $60 of drugs (planted or otherwise) isn't due process or violates the 4th amendment.

You may want those same protections from red flag laws one day.
 
if we can get a ruling that says invading someone's home based on a tattletale and executing them and their dog over $60 of drugs (planted or otherwise) isn't due process or violates the 4th amendment.
We don't need that ruling because that's not enough to get a warrant now.
 
Probably that pesky thing called the constitution would give the feds jurisdiction if we can get a ruling that says invading someone's home based on a tattletale and executing them and their dog over $60 of drugs (planted or otherwise) isn't due process or violates the 4th amendment.

You may want those same protections from red flag laws one day.


I'm more worried about federal standards being overreaching, and not being able to do anything about it, than I am about state and local standards, over which we each individually have more sway. Same thing with red flag laws. NO WAY I want federal standards for red flag laws. I don't want red flag laws, period, but good luck getting rid of them at all if they are federal.
 
Probability of evidence being destroyed with drugs being the worst, as they can be flushed and gone forever would warrant a no knock. A regular warrant that requires a knock and announce would be for things that can't be easily destroyed.

If drugs being destroyed is the worst case scenario, then with all due respect, I can find no legitimate use for no knock warrants.

No threat to life or severe bodily harm?

No need for those elements to be introduced into the situation by the State.
 
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If drugs being destroyed is the worst case scenario, then with all due respect, I can find no legitimate use for no knock warrants.

No threat to life or severe bodily harm?

No need for those elements to be introduced into the situation by the State.

I love teaching constitutional law, NOT. If an officer is standing at your door with a regular search warrant (NOT a no knock) and he/she has announced and then hears what they believe to be a person being harmed they can (within the law) force entry to prevent such harm. I'm not saying that they have to stand there and listen to someone being beaten to death. A scream or two will trigger the "save a life" response. Could they just say they heard something?? Sure as hell, if everyone on the outside can get their BS story straight and stick to it.
Warrant service is a specialized field within most departments, normally SWAT is there for weaponized back up, not initial service.
 
I love teaching constitutional law, NOT. If an officer is standing at your door with a regular search warrant (NOT a no knock) and he/she has announced and then hears what they believe to be a person being harmed they can (within the law) force entry to prevent such harm. I'm not saying that they have to stand there and listen to someone being beaten to death. A scream or two will trigger the "save a life" response. Could they just say they heard something?? Sure as hell, if everyone on the outside can get their BS story straight and stick to it.
Warrant service is a specialized field within most departments, normally SWAT is there for weaponized back up, not initial service.

I am not sure how this lesson contradicts what SPM said? In your case they knock during the day...in his case they smash the door in a 3am.

With so many cameras uploading directly to the web these days, I'd caution officers against pretending to hear cries and screams.
 
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I am not sure how this lesson contradicts what SPM said? In your case they knock during the day...in his case they smash the door in a 3am.

With so many cameras uploading directly to the web these days, I'd caution officers against pretending to hear cries and screams.

Time of day is not relevant and if a neighbor is making a video of your entry do you really think the phone is going to pick up what they hear at the door....Really??
 
Time of day is not relevant and if a neighbor is making a video of your entry do you really think the phone is going to pick up what they hear at the door....Really??

Knock and announce warrants are typically served during the day but you probably knew that.

Also, there are these things called security systems that are likely installed on the door you are knocking on. They hear surprisingly well and very often store video/audio on cloud servers. Really!
 
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