5 Houston police officers shot.

Knock and announce warrants are typically served during the day but you probably knew that.

Also, there are these things called security systems that are likely installed on the door you are knocking on. They hear surprisingly well and very often store video/audio on cloud servers. Really!

What exactly do you think happens Typically? The no knock search warrants aren't like tv, neither are regular search warrants of people just standing at the door waiting for someone to answer.
 
What exactly do you think happens Typically? The no knock search warrants aren't like tv, neither are regular search warrants of people just standing at the door waiting for someone to answer.

Before we go down a rabbit hole, do knock and announce search warrants typically happen during the day or not?
 
Before we go down a rabbit hole, do knock and announce search warrants typically happen during the day or not?

Both, there is generally not a huge difference between the two. Serving a search warrant on a drug house they pop the door screaming police police police. That is not a No knock search warrant just a search warrant.
 
Haven't you been paying attention? The cop evidently lied to get the warrant because the rest of it wasn't enough.
Ok. And we have a whole new crop of laws popping up where a person who tattletales on you for whatever reason can initiate a "preemptive" raid on your house to seize your guns to prevent you from theoretically hurting someone even if it results in your death, your dog's death, and possibly some cops.

Do you see the problem if it comes down to the honesty of one cop or one angry ex girlfriend? What I am getting at is this military style invasions of homes based on these flimsy processes are in my opinion, very flagrant violations of the 4th amendment and what I understand to be due process.
 
Before we go down a rabbit hole, do knock and announce search warrants typically happen during the day or not?
No, they happen at whatever time enough information is presented to secure the warrant. Drug dealers don't work 9 to 5 and waiting a day to serve warrants means a lot of evidence can get gone.

If the informant says there are drugs there now waiting until the next day your probable cause can evaporate.
 
Both, there is generally not a huge difference between the two. Serving a search warrant on a drug house they pop the door screaming police police police. That is not a No knock search warrant just a search warrant.

I understand that if they knock and announce as they break open the door it is not a no-knock raid. What I am getting at is it probably is, or should be generally less common that you are serving these knock and announce raids at 3 in the morning...correct?
 
Ok. And we have a whole new crop of laws popping up where a person who tattletales on you for whatever reason can initiate a "preemptive" raid on your house to seize your guns to prevent you from theoretically hurting someone even if it results in your death, your dog's death, and possibly some cops.

Do you see the problem if it comes down to the honesty of one cop or one angry ex girlfriend? What I am getting at is this military style invasions of homes based on these flimsy processes are in my opinion, very flagrant violations of the 4th amendment and what I understand to be due process.
You really think that's all it takes? The fact that agencies and cop can and do get sued and prosecuted for rights violations that they won't do their due diligence?

Pretty sure a judge has to sign off on confiscations too.
 
You really think that's all it takes? The fact that agencies and cop can and do get sued and prosecuted for rights violations that they won't do their due diligence?

Pretty sure a judge has to sign off on confiscations too.

You just told me that one cop lied and that is the reason it happened this time. You just told me that was all it took.
 
No, they happen at whatever time enough information is presented to secure the warrant. Drug dealers don't work 9 to 5 and waiting a day to serve warrants means a lot of evidence can get gone.

If the informant says there are drugs there now waiting until the next day your probable cause can evaporate.

When do drug dealers work and how does evidence evaporate?
 
You just told me that one cop lied and that is the reason it happened this time. You just told me that was all it took.
What the actual... are you talking about? What does the one have to do with the other? Stop moving the goalposts.
 
What the actual... are you talking about? What does the one have to do with the other? Stop moving the goalposts.

I didn't move anything. Read the posts and quotes again and figure out exactly what it is you are disagreeing about.

EDIT: I will assist you:

Probably that pesky thing called the constitution would give the feds jurisdiction if we can get a ruling that says invading someone's home based on a tattletale and executing them and their dog over $60 of drugs (planted or otherwise) isn't due process or violates the 4th amendment.

You may want those same protections from red flag laws one day.
We don't need that ruling because that's not enough to get a warrant now.
Then why is it happening?
Haven't you been paying attention? The cop evidently lied to get the warrant because the rest of it wasn't enough.
Do you see the problem if it comes down to the honesty of one cop or one angry ex girlfriend?
You really think that's all it takes?
You just told me that one cop lied and that is the reason it happened this time. You just told me that was all it took.
What the actual... are you talking about? What does the one have to do with the other? Stop moving the goalposts.
 
Last edited:
I understand that if they knock and announce as they break open the door it is not a no-knock raid. What I am getting at is it probably is, or should be generally less common that you are serving these knock and announce raids at 3 in the morning...correct?

I don't understand your question?
Most search warrants I've ever seen are daytime hours. Usually early morning 5-7am then later afternoon.
 
I don't understand your question?
Most search warrants I've ever seen are daytime hours. Usually early morning 5-7am then later afternoon.

Ok, we agree. I said knock and announce warrants are "typically" served during the day. "Most" would substantiate typical. Thank you.
 
You really think that's all it takes? The fact that agencies and cop can and do get sued and prosecuted for rights violations that they won't do their due diligence?

Pretty sure a judge has to sign off on confiscations too.

To bad we the people pay for that! The person or persons actually responsible very rarely, have to pay, usually just get fired and move on to next department.
 
Last edited:
Funny how we haven’t heard from the police union guy now that the truth is coming out.

He's already made his case that the police are gunning for.....well, they have the numbers of any who dare to question or criticize, that they're going to be watching and waiting and bringing the fight to those folks.

What I most especially liked about his initial statement was when he demanded people thank Officers for their service. Something only the real shit bags in the military do....which is why the idea that LE and .mil share some bond of service to country brotherhood is retarded....

52464333_2772395089652960_2267275774853644288_n.jpg
 
What I most especially liked about his initial statement was when he demanded people thank Officers for their service.
I have previously referred to the relationship between police and the rest of the citizenry where they simultaneously demand abject obedience while wanting to be worshipped as perverted.
 
FBI is now involved, looking at 1400 cases....

https://reason.com/blog/2019/02/21/fraudulent-houston-drug-warrant-prompts

Some are arguing it's a capital offense.

If found guilty, they should hang him. Publicly.

Addendum: By noting that judges cannot independently verify controlled buys described by narcotics officers, I did not mean to imply that there were no grounds for Houston Municipal Court Judge Gordon Marcum, who approved the warrant in this case, to be skeptical of Goines' affidavit. Tuttle and Nicholas had lived at 7815 Harding Street for more than three decades; they were well-known in the neighborhood and publicly listedas residents. Yet in his affidavit, Goines refers to Tuttle as "a white male, whose name is unknown." That should have been a red flag indicating that Goines' investigation, which supposedly "had been going on for approximately two (2) weeks," was less than thorough. Goines also said he "advised" the C.I. that "narcotics were being sold and stored" at the house, but he cited no evidence of that, notwithstanding his two-week investigation. Goines claimed another narcotics officer, Steven Bryant, recognized the brown powder as heroin, a detail that Bryant has since contradicted. One wonders what Bryant would have said if Marcum had asked him to verify Goines' account.

Good article until he goes to the point of having to try to throw everyone under the bus. I see nothing outstanding that would give the Judge any reason to have a valid question about the search warrant. Remember that even though they read the warrant they often listen to testimony from the officer. So it's hard to tell what lies were verbally relayed to the judge.
 
Addendum: By noting that judges cannot independently verify controlled buys described by narcotics officers, I did not mean to imply that there were no grounds for Houston Municipal Court Judge Gordon Marcum, who approved the warrant in this case, to be skeptical of Goines' affidavit. Tuttle and Nicholas had lived at 7815 Harding Street for more than three decades; they were well-known in the neighborhood and publicly listedas residents. Yet in his affidavit, Goines refers to Tuttle as "a white male, whose name is unknown." That should have been a red flag indicating that Goines' investigation, which supposedly "had been going on for approximately two (2) weeks," was less than thorough. Goines also said he "advised" the C.I. that "narcotics were being sold and stored" at the house, but he cited no evidence of that, notwithstanding his two-week investigation. Goines claimed another narcotics officer, Steven Bryant, recognized the brown powder as heroin, a detail that Bryant has since contradicted. One wonders what Bryant would have said if Marcum had asked him to verify Goines' account.

Good article until he goes to the point of having to try to throw everyone under the bus. I see nothing outstanding that would give the Judge any reason to have a valid question about the search warrant. Remember that even though they read the warrant they often listen to testimony from the officer. So it's hard to tell what lies were verbally relayed to the judge.
If it wasn't written in the warrant application it shouldn't have been considered.

I'll say this about the raid. There were more victims than the family. Every officer who was injured and was not a part of the deception and was acting in good faith was a victim too. The narc that falsified the affidavit should have consequences for them too.
 
If nothing else, this event opened Pandora's box for HPD. Acevedo has been all-out political on this, doesn't think the Texas Rangers or FBI needs to investigate, 1,400+ likely 'bad' cases, undercurrent of corruptions against some (not gonna say 'all') HPD officers...right now Jussie Smollett has more credibility than HPD.
 
So Houston PD will be ending the practice of No Knock warrants.

As many have said, change will only come when the price becomes too high to accept, either politically, in Blue blood, or both.

Rather than learn from HPD's experience, I suspect the rest of the Thin Blue Line Gang will still be compelled by stubbornness to pay an unnecessary price.

https://www.npr.org/2019/02/19/6959...-6REbg2NITRBWrMXfAyIPzxAy_knLyyvcb2a1WBluk98E
 
Here's a nice synopsis:

In this case, police found no evidence of drug dealing, notwithstanding a search warrant affidavit describing many bags of heroin in the home the day before. It turned out the "controlled buy" that was the basis for the warrant never happened. But even if it had, the execution of the warrant would have been reckless. After undercover narcotics officers broke into the home of Dennis Tuttle and Rhogena Nicholas at 7815 Harding Street, one of them immediately killed the couple's dog with a shotgun, setting off an exchange of fire in which Tuttle and Nicholas were both killed.


This is probably the best justification for owning fully automatic weapons I've read recently.
 
I'll say this about the raid. There were more victims than the family. Every officer who was injured and was not a part of the deception and was acting in good faith was a victim too. The narc that falsified the affidavit should have consequences for them too.

Tough.

Every employee chooses who they work for. If you choose to work for a corrupt organization (and please let's not pretend HPD officers didn't know how dirty their organization was) you take your chances when things go sideways. It sucks that people got hurt but HPD started this debacle and it's about time PD's start paying the price for playing Rambo-does-home-invasion.

Where was the FOP when all the dirty deeds were being committed in HPD? Did they stand up to make it right, or did they play dumb and watch their members become complicit in crime?
 
Last edited:
So Houston PD will be ending the practice of No Knock warrants.

As many have said, change will only come when the price becomes too high to accept, either politically, in Blue blood, or both.

Rather than learn from HPD's experience, I suspect the rest of the Thin Blue Line Gang will still be compelled by stubbornness to pay an unnecessary price.

https://www.npr.org/2019/02/19/6959...-6REbg2NITRBWrMXfAyIPzxAy_knLyyvcb2a1WBluk98E

He has already backtracked on that saying he will review and approve any future no-knock raids. They find it exceptionally hard to give back any power once they grab it...no matter how wrong it may be.
 
Back
Top Bottom