I am going to say this, it is likely not going to be a popular opinion given that it's about some who are currently serving in uniform, but this is based on the conversations taking place on a lot of submarine groups on FB.
We have not, as parents and a nation, done a great job with raising our children to deal with hardships of life in the armed services. They're throwing around terms like "toxic submarine culture," the "toxic old ways" and the like.
Talking about the stress new personnel face when they're not qualified, the high op tempo, the seasoned folks not being nice to the new guys, etc.
In short, we have a generation of people who still haven't come of age in their 20s,who haven't figured out that life, especially in the military, is hard.
I don't know the specifics here - but I can tell you I am certainly relieved not to still be on submarine duty with folks that want to change the culture of the service.
Not saying that has anything to do with this particular shooting (I not on any airdale groups to see if they're whining about the same stuff), but this doesn't bode well for the future of the United States military.
I am going to say this, it is likely not going to be a popular opinion given that it's about some who are currently serving in uniform, but this is based on the conversations taking place on a lot of submarine groups on FB.
We have not, as parents and a nation, done a great job with raising our children to deal with hardships of life in the armed services. They're throwing around terms like "toxic submarine culture," the "toxic old ways" and the like.
Talking about the stress new personnel face when they're not qualified, the high op tempo, the seasoned folks not being nice to the new guys, etc.
In short, we have a generation of people who still haven't come of age in their 20s,who haven't figured out that life, especially in the military, is hard.
I don't know the specifics here - but I can tell you I am certainly relieved not to still be on submarine duty with folks that want to change the culture of the service.
Not saying that has anything to do with this particular shooting (I not on any airdale groups to see if they're whining about the same stuff), but this doesn't bode well for the future of the United States military.
As sad as it may be I believe you have hit the nail on the head!
Am I am guilty of it apparently.
I had 2 girls and 1 boy. My son (41yo now) has become the wimpiest, mealey mouthed, keyboard tough guy that is irresponsible, narcissistic and self serving! I obviously failed the bastard. He probably is the mail man's kid!
My daughters are 180 degrees out. Proud, self-sufficient, law abiding pillars of society.
I bring this up because a large part of why I retired when I did was the changes I saw in the troops I was dealing with on a day to day basis! When I retired I was all but a selected MGYST (E-9) with orders to Kaneohe Bay, HI and had the world by the short hairs.
I was not thrilled with living on an island but I could get over that. The biggest issue tome was the quality of the personnel I saw everyday. The kids did not accept responsibility for their own actions. Did not act responsibly and did not have the ability to be cohesive as a unit. It's scary! It was a big deal to me in an environment where I needed to know how they would react.
As sad as it may be I believe you have hit the nail on the head!
Am I am guilty of it apparently.
I had 2 girls and 1 boy. My son (41yo now) has become the wimpiest, mealey mouthed, keyboard tough guy that is irresponsible, narcissistic and self serving! I obviously failed the bastard. He probably is the mail man's kid!
My daughters are 180 degrees out. Proud, self-sufficient, law abiding pillars of society.
I bring this up because a large part of why I retired when I did was the changes I saw in the troops I was dealing with on a day to day basis! When I retired I was all but a selected MGYST (E-9) with orders to Kaneohe Bay, HI and had the world by the short hairs.
I was not thrilled with living on an island but I could get over that. The biggest issue tome was the quality of the personnel I saw everyday. The kids did not accept responsibility for their own actions. Did not act responsibly and did not have the ability to be cohesive as a unit. It's scary! It was a big deal to me in an environment where I needed to know how they would react.
UNCONFIRMED/UNVERIFIED: A former Airedale (guy who worked in the Naval Aviation community) with friends in Pensacola is claiming multiple sources saying the shooter is a Saudi military pilot in the States for training.
damn!
The Fox News link is not saying the same.That’s why I prefaced it with the first two words. If untrue, it could be unnecessarily inflammatory.
The Fox News link is not saying the same.
One thing that will certainly come from these two incidents... The top brass in all four branches of the military will be even more fervent in their beliefs that our military members can't be trusted with small arms while on base. This dreadful situation creates a gun-free zone and makes the regulation-following servicemen & women more vulnerable to attack.[/QUOT
The damn shame is they might!
WTF has come of our nation?
The damn shame is they might!
WTF has come of our nation?
Fascinating. The millennial generation began in 1984, which would have made these 18 year olds the first mellenials to reach adulthood or the military.We saw an easily identifiable shift in the quality of some of the guys we were getting out of the nuclear pipeline around....2002/2003.
Over on Defensive Carry before it too got taken over by the Canooks, there was a guy who claimed to be the gold shift commander on a boomer sub. This was the Oboingo years and they were pushing allowing women to serve on those subs. His point was that the duty was the most physically demanding, dirty, hardest job you could imagine in cramped quarters and took a lot of physical strength. He also raised the obvious issue of pregnancy saying there would be no way to get her off the boat and it would become a mission jeopardizing event.Convincing these kids that everyone on a submarine could kill everyone else on a submarine due to a lack of knowledge got you the carp look, or the brush off, or an eye roll.
Fascinating. The millennial generation began in 1984, which would have made these 18 year olds the first mellenials to reach adulthood or the military.
On a side note, but one this thread has reminded me of, I've been reading the book Tribe by Sebastian Juncker. In it he describes that in the US there is a fascination with thanking people for spending time in the military. By way of contrast, in a country like Israel that has compulsory military service, thanking soldiers is seen as odd and would be like thanking someone for paying taxes.
The point of the book, which may be related to this sort of thing, is that military is often times good at creating a form of tribe - in a good way in that you become a community whose collective good is the goal of all individuals. Perhaps there is something that causes certain individuals to fail to become part of the tribe.
So, 2nd US Navy base shooting this week. Shooter is Saudi AF Officer, definitely gotta be terrorism.
I am going to say this, it is likely not going to be a popular opinion given that it's about some who are currently serving in uniform, but this is based on the conversations taking place on a lot of submarine groups on FB.
We have not, as parents and a nation, done a great job with raising our children to deal with hardships of life in the armed services. They're throwing around terms like "toxic submarine culture," the "toxic old ways" and the like.
Talking about the stress new personnel face when they're not qualified, the high op tempo, the seasoned folks not being nice to the new guys, etc.
In short, we have a generation of people who still haven't come of age in their 20s,who haven't figured out that life, especially in the military, is hard.
I don't know the specifics here - but I can tell you I am certainly relieved not to still be on submarine duty with folks that want to change the culture of the service.
Not saying that has anything to do with this particular shooting (I not on any airdale groups to see if they're whining about the same stuff), but this doesn't bode well for the future of the United States military.
My son in law was telling me something about "stress cards" in boot camp???
And THESE are the people who the Dems think are going to come take our guns?They weren’t a thing when I went through, but apparently it is a thing. If you feel you are being singled out or especially mistreated, apparently you have a card that makes the DI/RDC/Drill Sergeants give you a break to collect yourself or something.
And THESE are the people who the Dems think are going to come take our guns?
When these powderpuffs get into combat, are they going to start whining because "they have tanks, why can't we have tanks? It's not fair!"
Can someone just hit the reset button already?
If we washed all the snowflakes out, there wouldn’t be but 2 or 3 kids left anymore!I was never in the military so my opinion of what could be wrong doesn’t really count, but seems like drill instructors used to be able washout the snowflakes in boot. Now they have to be friends and care about feelings.
Ours would still pound you if you screwed up! 1983 Ft Sill, OK and just about all were Nam vets!My Drill Sergeants were all Nam vets 'n you can believe they ain't had a bit of interest in our feelings.
Son in law joined the army in 2000. He said the drill sgt handed their stress cards out, told them what they were, and made it clear that if he ever saw one again, there would be hell to pay.If those cards actually existed, I'd bet playing one would get you extra scrutiny and special attention.
Ours would still pound you if you screwed up! 1983 Ft Sill, OK and just about all were Nam vets!
WTF are we allowing Saudi mudslides on our soil, much less military bases to train them to kill Americans?!?
There’s no excuse. For the first time in US history muhamed has made it to the top 20 boy baby names.
Everything the mohammedans believe is anti-Constitution, Liberty, the enemy and downright evil.
Drumph, if you’re worth a damn, stop this.
“As of this week, there are more than 850 Saudis in the United States for various training activities. They are among more than 5,000 foreign students from 153 countries in the U.S. going through military training.”
https://apnews.com/1102076110d04018176b4f7f12017347
Finding a politician with the stones to attack either issues is like finding a unicorn.